Krocker Krapp Wrote:

Cowboy Junky Wrote:Don't kid yourself. Utep would jump in a nano-second. Think about it. No one has wanted the SWC leftovers. They got dumped from the Wac 16. TCU left them behind to join the MWC. The Wac improved when they joined CUSA. The history that Utep has with the MWC heavily outweighs the interest in playing Rice, SMU, and Houston. Those are the three most attractive games for Utep. In the MWC they would have TCU, UNM, BYU, AFA, Utah...There a lot more interesting match-ups in the MWC, especially when you have rivalries with many of the teams.

Utep fans are too proud to admit wanting to go back to a girlfriend that dumped them, but they would in a second. Don't believe the hype.

The quotes I supplied did not come from any fans. They came from the president and the athletic director. They know what they want for their university much better than anyone speculating on an internet message board. The MWC, by the way, sure as heck did not care about its many years of history with UTEP in 1998 or any time since then.

So why did Utep try to get into the MWC when we added TCU? Why didn't they just try to get into CUSA. At the time they wanted in the MWC more than they wanted in CUSA and they still do.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:

Cowboy Junky Wrote:Don't kid yourself. Utep would jump in a nano-second. Think about it. No one has wanted the SWC leftovers. They got dumped from the Wac 16. TCU left them behind to join the MWC. The Wac improved when they joined CUSA. The history that Utep has with the MWC heavily outweighs the interest in playing Rice, SMU, and Houston. Those are the three most attractive games for Utep. In the MWC they would have TCU, UNM, BYU, AFA, Utah...There a lot more interesting match-ups in the MWC, especially when you have rivalries with many of the teams.

Utep fans are too proud to admit wanting to go back to a girlfriend that dumped them, but they would in a second. Don't believe the hype.

The quotes I supplied did not come from any fans. They came from the president and the athletic director. They know what they want for their university much better than anyone speculating on an internet message board. The MWC, by the way, sure as heck did not care about its many years of history with UTEP in 1998 or any time since then.

All I can say is UTEP openly lobbied to get in the MWC... I don't remember them doing that so much when C-USA took SMU, Rice, and Tulsa out of the WAC after the Big East raided them. Remember it was not just those 3 added at the time there was also Central Florida and Marshall added at the time. Then TCU left for the MWC and opened up one more spot... When looking at it honestly what options did C-USA have at that time? North Texas? La Tech or another Louisiana school?
Next what would you expect your school's president and the athletic director to say? We decided to take a crack at being this conference and noticed that there TV Contracts 11.5 times more than the WAC so we joined.
Good Heck the MWC just passed them over for the 2nd time (once when the MWC was formed and again when TCU was added), so what should have they said. Since the MWC didn't take us again we took the 2nd best option by joining C-USA?

MWC had an opening, C-USA did not. UTEP lobbied for MWC. TCU joined MWC, Now MWC did not have opening & C-USA did. UTEP lobbied C-USA. It doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

templefootballfan Wrote:MWC had an opening, C-USA did not. UTEP lobbied for MWC. TCU joined MWC, Now MWC did not have opening & C-USA did. UTEP lobbied C-USA. It doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

CUSA had several openings. They had lost about half of their league that year. Still, Utep didn't lobby CUSA to get in. They were trying to get into the MWC. CUSA finally approached Utep after it was obvious the MWC didn't want them. When TCU was selected that's when Utep tryed to get into CUSA.

We were their number one choice then and we still are.

templefootballfan Wrote:MWC had an opening, C-USA did not. UTEP lobbied for MWC. TCU joined MWC, Now MWC did not have opening & C-USA did. UTEP lobbied C-USA. It doesn't get any more cut & dried than that.

The way I remember it, was C-USA had 5 openings and the MWC was looking to expand by one or more. I know some MWC fans wanted the MWC to expand to 12, I fell in that group. But everything coming from Thompson offices pointed more to 1 or 2 schools, taking the MWC to 9 or 10 schools. School known to have publicly lobbied to get into the MWC at the time were Boise St, Fresno St, UTEP, Nevada, and Hawaii from the WAC and TCU from C-USA. IMO, Tulsa, SMU, and Rice knew they had know shot at getting into the MWC over UTEP (UTEP was a more in the MWC footprint and had a long history with the MWC teams), so they lobbied to get into C-USA instead. Because how would you rate (facilities, budget, attendance, control of TV Market, and ect...) those 4 programs (UTEP, Tulsa, SMU, and Rice)? Even now when MWC fans talk about expanding, which 1 of the 4 is brought up the most?
Compare the last 3 years;

UTEP
Budget- $20,831,731
Football record- 17-20
Football attendance average- 42,304 per game
Basketball record- 54-38
Basketball attendance average- 8,849 per game
TV Market- #98 El Paso, TX, 302,470 households

Tulsa
Budget- $24,276,929
Football record- 27-13
Football attendance average- 22,910 per game
Basketball record- 56-42
Basketball attendance average- 5,679 per game
TV Market- #60 Tulsa, OK, 519,820 households

SMU
Budget- $27,708,145
Football record- 12-23
Football attendance average- 17,076 per game
Basketball record- 37-53
Basketball attendance average- 2,617 per game
TV Market- #5 Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX, 2,435,600 households

Rice
Budget- $26,031,598
Football record- 11-25
Football attendance average- 12,728 per game
Basketball record- 31-59
Basketball attendance average- 1,672 per game
TV Market- #10 Houston, TX, 2,050,550 households

IMO, this would be the order of interest of expansion candidates for the MWC... The other 3 might have bigger budgets and are placed in larger markets. It appears that UTEP is doing more with less, in getting more wins and larger attendances. IMO, UTEP controls at least 2 times more households in their smaller market than the other 3 do in theirs.

The MWC is highly unlikely to expand to 12 teams and put the WAC out of business unless doing such a thing guarantees a BCS bid. Right now, and for all the forseeable future, it would not.

As far as UTEP is concerned, they have moved on, whether MWC fans care or not. The Miners are not sitting around waiting for a phone call from the MWC like an ugly girl with no prom date.

How many times can someone get screwed and passed over before they decide to quit asking and get on with their lives? All those schools have quit asking and are getting on with their lives.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:The MWC is highly unlikely to expand to 12 teams and put the WAC out of business unless doing such a thing guarantees a BCS bid. Right now, and for all the forseeable future, it would not.

As far as UTEP is concerned, they have moved on, whether MWC fans care or not. The Miners are not sitting around waiting for a phone call from the MWC like an ugly girl with no prom date.

How many times can someone get screwed and passed over before they decide to quit asking and get on with their lives? All those schools have quit asking and are getting on with their lives.

I agree, the last 2 years I have been thinking the just Boise St should be added and I don't see the MWC taking more than one team from the WAC just for the fact it would put them under 8 teams...

As much as I like Boise St, there are other programs that bring more to the table. Boise St is Maxed out, other programs have room to grow. Hous would also bring bowl game, Frenso might help reaquiring the Emerald bowl.

templefootballfan Wrote:As much as I like Boise St, there are other programs that bring more to the table. Boise St is Maxed out, other programs have room to grow. Hous would also bring bowl game, Frenso might help reaquiring the Emerald bowl.

What do you mean by Boise St is Maxed Out? IMO, they the one of the 3 with the most potential for growth.

Here is a link with pictures of Boise St's stadium expansion;
http://s288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165...mview=grid

can't get the link, how many seats are going in. Boise doing a great job. If you change the parameters, will they be as succesesfull, stronger conf & not playing in Cali. will hurt there recuriting. There just to many people in Cali & Tex. Hous would bring Tex bowl & Frenso might get you back in Emerald, you said yourself MWC not in Humanerterain bowl.

templefootballfan Wrote:can't get the link, how many seats are going in. Boise doing a great job. If you change the parameters, will they be as succesesfull, stronger conf & not playing in Cali. will hurt there recuriting. There just to many people in Cali & Tex. Hous would bring Tex bowl & Frenso might get you back in Emerald, you said yourself MWC not in Humanerterain bowl.

Ok, I had a hard time with the link too... So maybe I can post a couple pictures...



As far as the Humanitarian Bowl, if Boise St was added the MWC would need another Bowl, so why not the H-Bowl?

Those picture were taken May 30th, the seat will be increased by another 2,000, but those extra 2,000 seats will make around the same or more than the other 30,000 seats have been.

Boise St History 101:
In 1932 Boise Jr College was founded by the Episcopal Church.
In 1933 Boise Jr College plays first season of football.
In 1934 the Episcopal Church ends its affiliation and a board of directors is formed to assumes leadership.
In 1940 Boise Jr College campus moves to south bank of Boise River were it currently located.
In 1958 Boise Jr College wins the NJCAA national championship in football.
In 1965 Boise Jr College starts to offer baccalaureate degrees becoming Boise College and enrollment reaches 5,000.
In 1969 the State of Idaho system of Higher Education assumes control Boise College name is changed to Boise St College.
In 1970 Boise St College joins the Big Sky Conference and Bronco Stadium opens with a capacity of 14,500.
In 1974 Boise St College has university status granted, becomes Boise St University.
In 1975 Bronco Stadium adds upper deck to east side and stadium capacity is increased to 20,000.
In 1978 Boise St and the Big Sky Conference moves up to newly formed D1-AA status.
In 1979 Boise St's enrollment reaches 10,000.
In 1980 Boise St's football team wins the D1-AA national championship.
In 1982 Boise St Pavilion (multi-purpose arena) opens in May with a capacity of 12,820 seats.
In 1986 Boise St installed Blue Astroturf to the field at Bronco Stadium as a marketing ploy.
In 1992 Boise St's 1st doctoral degree approved and enrollment reaches 15,000 becoming the largest in the state.
In 1996 Boise St's athletic program moves up to D1 and joins the Big West Conference.
In 1997 Boise St expands Bronco Stadium, increases seating capacity to 30,000.
In 2001 Boise St's athletics program moves to the WAC.
In 2006 Boise St's football team goes undefeated making the BC$ Fiesta Bowl and beats Oklahoma. Boise St won their 5th straight WAC football title and also the WAC Commissioner's Cup for the 1st time. Also in the Spring of 2006 Boise St new Indoor Practice Facility is completed.
In 2007 the State of Idaho approves funding for a $35.9 million for the expansion Bronco Stadium (new press box, luxury suites, club seats, and loge boxes).

My opinion on the matter

MWC should add Houston, Boise State, and Fresno State. As a TCU fan, I would like another Texas school in the conference and Houston would be a good addition both school wise and location wise. Houston would not be #1 in their market just like TCU is not, but you don't need to be #1 in a market that size to still get good exposure. As for Houston's interest, I don't know how interested the university is but there have been several post on their scout.com site with fans talking about Houston moving to the MWC.

I also like Houston and Fresno for baseball reasons. Houston, Fresno, and TCU would make a competitive conference race each season; along with programs like UNM that is improving, SDSU who has as much potential as anyone, UNLV who should be better, and BYU who is usually solid (although this year was a outlier). Adding Fresno and Houston should make the MWC a multiple bid league in baseball every year.

IMO, I don't see Houston's administration being interested in joining the MWC any more than they were in join the WAC when TCU, SMU, Rice, and Tulsa joined. It's been a while ago, but the way I remember it was Houston was invited but declined the offer because they did not want to join a Western Conference. So instead they are one of founding members of C-USA, even though they did not join the opening year because of their commitment they had in the final year of the SWC...

E-zone Wrote:IMO, I don't see Houston's administration being interested in joining the MWC any more than they were in join the WAC when TCU, SMU, Rice, and Tulsa joined. It's been a while ago, but the way I remember it was Houston was invited but declined the offer because they did not want to join a Western Conference. So instead they are one of founding members of C-USA, even though they did not join the opening year because of their commitment they had in the final year of the SWC...

I think they liked the CUSA and its eastern exposure and basketball (Memphis, Cincy, Louisville), but there are no absolutes anymore. If the MWC decided to go to 12 and the CUSA was losing some high profile teams, they'd consider a MWC pretty strongly. I don't think that is imminent on either front, but if the expansion ball got rolling again I think they are in play. A year ago I would have said not a real option, but I sense things are changing on both fronts.

It would just cost to much for houston to join MWC. The MWC needs to find better regional teams.

IMHO, I don't think Houston will ever have a desire to be in a Rockey Mountain based conference ever, unless they were tied to the BC$. I agree with what "hawghiggs" has said about costs, plus IMO Houston is not real big on taking chances, they are more of a status quo type of Sports Program. They feel comfortable in C-USA and their Eastern ties so why rock the boat and take chances you don't need or have to take.
I could be dead wrong on it, but thats just the way I see it right now...

E-zone Wrote:IMHO, I don't think Houston will ever have a desire to be in a Rockey Mountain based conference ever, unless they were tied to the BC$. I agree with what "hawghiggs" has said about costs, plus IMO Houston is not real big on taking chances, they are more of a status quo type of Sports Program. They feel comfortable in C-USA and their Eastern ties so why rock the boat and take chances you don't need or have to take.
I could be dead wrong on it, but thats just the way I see it right now...

I think in the current state that may be true. But if teams leave the CUSA, in particular Memphis and the Liberty Bowl, I think things change. Check out this thread on the Houston Scout site:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=215#s=215...&t=2563219

You can see several warming up to the idea of the MWC in the situation where the CUSA loses some teams.

FWIW, joining the CUSA instead of the WAC in 1996 was more of an aggressive move, IMO. And I think their current leaders are aware of the need to be aggressive in the current environment.

Again, a year ago, I don't think there was any interest on either side. Now, who knows, but I think the equation is changing and you are seing that in the sentiments of the fans. Reminds of me of the stages of realization TCU and MWC fans went through when the MWC became a rumor. TCU and MWC fans didn't exactly jump right on board with the idea- there was resistance on both sides. If the CUSA stays intact, I don't think Houston listens too hard. But if the CUSA loses teams, I think you'll see a shift of opinion.

Frog in the Kitchen Sink Wrote:

E-zone Wrote:IMHO, I don't think Houston will ever have a desire to be in a Rockey Mountain based conference ever, unless they were tied to the BC$. I agree with what "hawghiggs" has said about costs, plus IMO Houston is not real big on taking chances, they are more of a status quo type of Sports Program. They feel comfortable in C-USA and their Eastern ties so why rock the boat and take chances you don't need or have to take.
I could be dead wrong on it, but thats just the way I see it right now...

I think in the current state that may be true. But if teams leave the CUSA, in particular Memphis and the Liberty Bowl, I think things change. Check out this thread on the Houston Scout site:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?S=215#s=215...&t=2563219

You can see several warming up to the idea of the MWC in the situation where the CUSA loses some teams.

FWIW, joining the CUSA instead of the WAC in 1996 was more of an aggressive move, IMO. And I think their current leaders are aware of the need to be aggressive in the current environment.

Again, a year ago, I don't think there was any interest on either side. Now, who knows, but I think the equation is changing and you are seing that in the sentiments of the fans. Reminds of me of the stages of realization TCU and MWC fans went through when the MWC became a rumor. TCU and MWC fans didn't exactly jump right on board with the idea- there was resistance on both sides. If the CUSA stays intact, I don't think Houston listens too hard. But if the CUSA loses teams, I think you'll see a shift of opinion.

Interesting read, but at least a few of them was in touch with reality about about future options. I have to smile with some of the Never, Never Land comments about getting New Mexico and TCU to leave for much weaker newly formed conference, that would have no Bowl tie-ins, TV contract, NCAA basketball auto bid, and added teams from the Sun Belt and WAC. The poster "CorinthCoog" who started the thread kept bringing up that in the MWC Houston would not be on TV ever, didn't surprise me after reading his list of new conference members (talk about brain dead).
The U of H
Rice
SMU
TCU-- MWC, what's your thoughts of the chance on TCU saying yes
USM
UTEP
UNT-- Sun Belt
Tulane
UNM Lobos-- MWC, not likely going to move to this conference
Tulsa
UAB
La Tech-- WAC

After reading the thread, I have to say I have feel a little more sorry for Houston. But I was surprised by how many of their fans think they should be in a BC$ conference or BC$ material. Don't get me wrong, Houston is a nice program... but should they at least average of over 30,000 in football to even talked about it.

Since the one Houston poster said he would not mind talking to San Diego St, UNLV, and New Mexico and that got "CorinthCoog" response I decided to compare Houston TV schedule with theirs...

Houston-
8/30 Southern @Houston
9/6 Houston @Oklahoma St
9/13 Air Force @Houston on CBS College Sports
9/20 Houston @Colorado St
9/27 Houston @East Carolina on CBS College Sports
10/9 UAB @Houston on CBS College Sports
10/18 Houston @SMU
10/28 Houston @Marshall on ESPN2
11/8 Tulane @Houston
11/15 Tulsa @Houston, TBD
11/22 UTEP @Houston, TBD
11/29 Houston @Rice

San Diego St-
8/30 Cal Poly @ San Diego St on Channel 4 San Diego
9/06 San Diego St @Notre Dame on NBC
9/13 San Diego St @San Jose St
9/27 Idaho @San Diego St
10/04 San Diego St @TCU on the mtn
10/11 Air Force @San Diego St on the mtn
10/18 San Diego St @New Mexico on the mtn
10/25 Colorado St @San Diego St on the mtn
11/01 San Diego St @Wyoming on the mtn
11/08 San Diego St @BYU on the mtn
11/15 Utah @San Diego St on the mtn
11/22 UNLV @San Diego St on CBS College Sports

UNLV-
8/30 Utah St @UNLV
9/06 UNLV @Utah on the mtn
9/13 UNLV @Arizona St, TBD
9/20 Iowa St @UNLV on the mtn
9/27 Nevada @UNLV on the mtn
10/04 UNLV @ Colorado St on the mtn
10/18 Air Force @UNLV on the mtn
10/25 UNLV @BYU on the mtn
11/01 TCU @UNLV on CBS College Sports
11/08 New Mexico @UNLV on the mtn
11/13 Wyoming @UNLV on CBS College Sports
11/22 UNLV @San Diego St on CBS College Sports

New Mexico-
8/30 TCU @New Mexico on Versus
9/06 Texas A&M @New Mexico on Versus
9/13 Arizona @New Mexico on CBS College Sports
9/20 New Mexico @Tulsa, TBD
9/27 New Mexico @New Mexico St, TBD
10/04 Wyoming @New Mexico on the mtn
10/11 New Mexico @BYU on the mtn
10/18 San Diego St @New Mexico on the mtn
10/23 New Mexico @Air Force on CBS College Sports
11/01 Utah @New Mexico on the mtn
11/08 New Mexico @UNLV on the mtn
11/15 New Mexico @Colorado St on the mtn

Maybe , it's just me but the MWC teams look to be on TV a lot more than Houston and it's not like San Diego St and UNLV have been powers in football lately...