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Quote: i live here and i want to see something good actually happen for a change.

I completely understand that but you need to realize that the chances of the dome doing what you want it to do are slim to none. There are better ways of going about it. I'm all for progress but am totally against irresponsible spending of public funds in hopes of "progress". If the dome fails it could send back Birmingham decades and the economic windfall would be insurmountable.

Quote: You need to face the reality that this dome will fail and will not deliver what many think that it will deliver in terms of revitalization, revenues, etc. It has been proven in other cities, cities which were in a much better off situation than Birmingham is currently in, prior to their construction of a dome/expanded convention center.

since you have a crystal ball, can you tell me the tennessee lottery numbers? i heard its over 100 million now.

If I do tell you then you have to promise to give at least $50 million of your winnings to help fund the dome since you are so confident that it's a great idea.

Quote: If I do tell you then you have to promise to give at least $50 million of your winnings to help fund the dome since you are so confident that it's a great idea.

i would definitely do it, but would make them put my name on the thing and give me my own lifetime suite.

Many UAB people that are against are against it not just because they think it wouldnt be that successful, but because they believe it will hurt UAB. UAB will NOT get an on-campus stadium soon... that's dome or no dome. I've never understood where this threatened attitude of dome vs on-campus stadium came from

No INVESTMENT is absolute or guarantees a profit! So please eliminate that from your thought process, if we built a smaller facility then we limit ourselves and we would be in no better shape than we're in right now. It's that small-time mentality that has us in the position we are in today.

The fact of the matter B'ham has always been the first choice of many of the events that are being thrown arround on this board. Then we lost them because of inadequate facilities. SEC Championship basically left because it rained on the game; it's that simply. We haven't had the SEC basketball because the BJCC only holds 16,000 people. The dome doesn't have to be filled to capacity to be viable. That is a misconception that is prevelant amongst the naysayers. You guys amaze me with this notion that Birmingham can't compete with other cities for different events but the events that are held in Birmingham seem to set the standard. SEC baseball, Bruno's memorial Classic, SWAC championship, Magic City Classic and that's just the ones that are currently here.

St. Louis Blazer - I don't know if you've ever attended the SWAC or Magic City Classic but those events traditional draw over 50,000 people and fill hotel rooms, restaurants, retail outlets, night clubs and therefore making a huge economic impact. You must keep in mind those events appeal to over 65% of B'hams population. I believe you have grossly understated their importance.

St. Louis, true you have provided so called facts but they are one sided. What about the study that says this dome would produce $90,000,000 in revenue in the first year? It's just as relevant as the other stats you posted but it shows a positive for the dome so you simply omit it. You have professed gloom and doom for the dome and that's not a FACTUAL outlook, unless you can predict the future. There are many variables that determine if something is going to be successful are not and NO ONE on this board knows all of them.

You seem to be an intelligent individual but you have closed your mind to the possibilities of the dome being a success. You can throw statistics out all day and they really don't mean a thing because numbers can be MANIPULATED to prove a point.

Fifty percent of all married couples get a divorce, so should people not marry or should they focus on the 50% that are successful?

BamaHas12 Wrote:...right now downtown birmingham is dead as it gets, and this will be a shot in the arm that downtown needs to get things rolling...

For as much as you want to know how STLouis Blazer can guarantee it will fail, how can you guarantee (as stated in your quote) that this will be the key to get things rolling?!?!?!??!

^ The point is that you and others arent even giving the dome a chance. At the VERY least, you have cost of supplies, construction workers, etc that will give the economy a boost. But that's besides the point... none of us dome supporters have necessarily claimed it will solve all of Birminghams problems or make us a major tourist attraction, but you guys against it arent even giving it a chance. Thankfully, STL doesnt live here so his vote doesnt count. As for the rest of you, hopefully the negative, pessimistic views of this city and its politics will die with you. It's these ideas that have kept the city from prospering. Yes, part of it is the direct result of our politicians, but other problems have been brought on by a lack of public support. There's a younger generation that's much more optimistic than the rest of you and much more determined to see it through.

LJBlazerFan Wrote:

BamaHas12 Wrote:...right now downtown birmingham is dead as it gets, and this will be a shot in the arm that downtown needs to get things rolling...

For as much as you want to know how STLouis Blazer can guarantee it will fail, how can you guarantee (as stated in your quote) that this will be the key to get things rolling?!?!?!??!

That's what I'm saying. He doesn't seem to have an answer.

Quote:St. Louis, true you have provided so called facts but they are one sided. What about the study that says this dome would produce $90,000,000 in revenue in the first year?

Again, the facts I am providing are HISTORICAL facts meaning that they have already happened. This study is a mere proposal and nothing has been shown where those revenues will DEFINITELY come from.

How you cannot understand that these types of facilities are failing most cities that have them is beyond me. The cold hard facts are there yet you continue to think that Birmingham will be different, when in fact it's so far behind those other cities that it is scary to think about the economic windfall that this dome could possibly have.

I do think that the dome will lead to a few good things but the dome itself will fail. That is my entire argument, THE DOME. The dome will fail over the long run.

Hell, I can generate $90,000,000 in revenue but if I'm spending $110,000,000 then it doesn't really matter.

Quote:Thankfully, STL doesnt live here so his vote doesnt count. As for the rest of you, hopefully the negative, pessimistic views of this city and its politics will die with you. It's these ideas that have kept the city from prospering. Yes, part of it is the direct result of our politicians, but other problems have been brought on by a lack of public support. There's a younger generation that's much more optimistic than the rest of you and much more determined to see it through.

No offense Blazer85 but graduate from college get a job working in the real estate industry, travel 4 months a year and then we will talk. I'm no expert but I do have quite a bit of knowledge of the things I speak about.

I'm not being pessimistic. I'm being realistic and have given facts and examples to back up my arguments, something any of the pro-dome people have yet to do. Give me examples and FACTS, historical trends, etc. Then argue with me.

First, let's not resort to being childish and saying someone's opinion doesn't count, or other people should die and take their "pessimistic" views with them...just because someone is against the dome does not in any way equate to them being anti-progress for the city. That is a baseless attack.

Blazer85, is not wanting to give it a chance that bad when you consider 1) the bad politics and funding plan currently going on and 2) the historical data about domes and their convention success across the country?

Please don't tell me that Birmingham's plan is different from everyone else's or that you can guarantee it will work.

There is no guarantee it will work, and there is no guarantee it will fail. But, it is a VERY EXPENSIVE RISK (and, given the historical data, it is a risk). Who is financially accounting for the majority of that risk? The people. I pay taxes here, and I don't like that risk.

If they can find private funding for the entire thing (as some here claimed a while back that they could do), that would be entirely different.

And, UAB4EVER, there is a huge difference between projections provided by folks supporting the project (bringing in $90 million the first year) and historical data about what has happened with domes across the country over the years.

Well, I traveled and stayed over 130 nights in various Starwood (Sheraton, Westin, W) properties last night... what does that make me, eh? I also have a real job - Egads!

So, Mr. Real Estate - Are you aware of the condo boom that Center City Birmingham is going through, and the movement back to downtown (and to the surrounding neighborhoods)? Birmingham's not the dead, lame duck city you make it out to be. As if St. Louis has room to talk - come back to me after half your population moves back into the city after leaving!

Harumph.

Please, Justin...in the big picture of housing in the Birmingham metropolitan area, these new condos are a very small "movement" back to downtown.

1,000 units proposed and/or under constuction in the Center City is NOTHING to sneeze at -- in any city.

I would not call it a boom but yes, I am aware of the development occuring in downtown Birmingham. However, that has been happening in just about every major city in America (other than San Antonio, I know that for sure) and Birmingham is just now getting around to it.

I have lived in these cities, travel frequently to these cities, and can give a pretty good comparison of most of the cities we speak about.

Like I said, I'm not an expert but I do have a bit more experience and exposure to what goes on in these cities than someone who has lived in Birmingham their entire life and seems to think that this dome will be Birmingham's "Field of Dreams".

Quote:As if St. Louis has room to talk - come back to me after half your population moves back into the city after leaving!

Please. There are currently more people moving into downtown St. Louis than there are living in downtown Birmingham.

Washington Avenue Loft District in St. Louis. Look it up and get back to me.

So whenever something fails somewhere else, that means it's going to fail here as well? Not all things follow the same trend. History does not always repeat itself. Birmingham, as Justin already said, actually has to turn people away because of a lack of convention space. STL, though youve criticized the dome itself, you've also criticized the plan for upgrading convention space. You think Birmingham doesnt have the demand when in fact people that plan these types of conventions for a living have stated that Birmingham has to turn people away that are interested. Justin isnt the only one to say it either. Other leaders have said it as well. People are just far too untrusting of anything that goes on in this city. That's the problem. It doesnt matter how well-thought out it is... some people will never approve because they just dont trust political leaders here whatsoever... or businessmen for that matter.

In a metropolitan area of more than 1 million people, it is a small "movement."

If you're referring to me, I've lived in Cincinnati, Dallas, Nashville, Philadelphia, and outside of New York City.

I only moved to Birmingham last year. Hardly a native, if you ask me. As an outsider, I'm one of the ones who sees a the potential for the city. It's going to be up to us to change things around here, looks like.