http://firedoglake.com/2008/03/08/how-th...-play-out/

It's death by a thousand lashes...... Each of them troubling by themselves in a conglomerate devastation

12 billion a month going out for Iraq.

An unsustainble federal deficit (spending and borrowing)

No Policy or attempt to defend the dollar. Some would argue a direct attempt to devalue the dollar to help manufacturing or to help what is left of manufacturing.

A gallon of gasoline was 1.42 when Bush took office. Was it Perle or Feith the idiot who said get used to a dollar for a gallon of gasoline? (The Mission Accomplished sign should of went to his buddies in the oil industry who put him in office)

It's a nightmare scenario. Whoever gets elected will have a hard time trying to steer our way out of this. The 1st thing we need to get back to is balancing the books. We are bankrupting the country, we can not keep on this course, I'm afraid that might be some people's plan to end social security. Starving the beast.

Machiavelli Wrote:It's death by a thousand lashes...... Each of them troubling by themselves in a conglomerate devastation

12 billion a month going out for Iraq.

An unsustainble federal deficit (spending and borrowing)

No Policy or attempt to defend the dollar. Some would argue a direct attempt to devalue the dollar to help manufacturing or to help what is left of manufacturing.

A gallon of gasoline was 1.42 when Bush took office. Was it Perle or Feith the idiot who said get used to a dollar for a gallon of gasoline? (The Mission Accomplished sign should of went to his buddies in the oil industry who put him in office)

It's a nightmare scenario. Whoever gets elected will have a hard time trying to steer our way out of this. The 1st thing we need to get back to is balancing the books. We are bankrupting the country, we can not keep on this course, I'm afraid that might be some people's plan to end social security. Starving the beast.

I think this tell you everything you need to know why the economy is in the way it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHtR4m9Puc8

Here is a good picture of why Bush didn't know.

Well that's a fairly cheerful note.

There is very little the government can do to fix this. OPEC has its collective hands around the USA's throat. The average long-haul trucker now spends $75,000 a year on fuel alone. Look at all the things that are dependent on oil; transportation of goods, plastic which either packages or makes most goods, tires, a significant portion of the nations electricity. Crude oil prices effectively increasing 300% is destroying this nation's economy.

The mortgage crisis is a symptom, but the average household with two cars is spending $100 more a month on gasoline. The cost of food and basic necessities is up 10% or more due to rising energy costs. The average American family spends 3X as much on food as it does gasoline. These increased expenses could have been used to pay higher mortgages. The Islamic nations don’t have to use terrorism to destroy America, they just have to destroy the economy by keeping crude prices above $100/barrel.

It's not the price of crude as much as the falling dollar. We have to DEFEND the dollar. That starts by curtailing spending and raising revenue. Never in our history have we spent so much and cut taxes along the way. It's not hard to understand. The falling dollar is the reason for crude's spike.

Machiavelli Wrote:It's not the price of crude as much as the falling dollar. We have to DEFEND the dollar. That starts by curtailing spending and raising revenue. Never in our history have we spent so much and cut taxes along the way. It's not hard to understand. The falling dollar is the reason for crude's spike.

No ****, Captain Obvious. Ready to start supporting that Fair Tax now?

I'm open to the fair tax. If you've been paying any attention these last couple of years you would know it. Another thing I've been pretty hard on W is the spending aspect too. Google "Defending the Dollar". It's about as 180 from our current policicies as you can get. I just can't get past the destructiveness of W's administration in just 7 years. What a monumental F up.

GW Bush isn't a fiscal conservative. I don't think you'll find too many conservatives that will disagree.

Machiavelli Wrote:That starts by curtailing spending and raising revenue. Never in our history have we spent so much and cut taxes along the way.

the defceit has decreased each year since the tax cuts went into effect, even with the supposed spending increases.

Intro to Laffer economics:



The Tax Threat to Prosperity

that said, even Larry Kudlow is now moving towards a stronger dollar like the early 80's and late 90's had. There is a fine line there on how far they go, the main thing is a "stable dollar".

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:OPEC has its collective hands around the USA's throat.

That's largely irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of our oil comes from Canada and Russia -- both nations not in OPEC. Oil will *NEVER* again be low enough for us to see $0.99/gallon gas. Given how we are approaching peak oil very soon as well, it will only get worse. We're merely living the gas prices the rest of the world has for the last few decades.

Ohh the foolishness of the supply siders. Here's two quotes from Laffer. Thankfully he said these things earlier so we can see how they actually fared.

Arthur B. Laffer, "You don't need to read this Bush's lips," Wall Street Journal p. A18 (February 14, 2005).
"When 'W' ran for president in 2000, I voted for him but not enthusiastically. I had voted for Bill Clinton in the prior two presidential elections, but with Al Gore as the Democratic candidate in 2000 the choice was easy for me even if I wasn't all that excited about George Bush. I am now flabbergasted by the performance of Bush 43. [...] George W. Bush could well turn out to be the best president in recent history. [...] Because of President Clinton, President Bush's budget deficits can easily be absorbed by the U.S. economy. [...] Supply-side pro-growth economics couldn't ask for a better champion -- nor could any American."
Arthur B. Laffer, "Destination USA," Wall Street Journal p. A8 (January 3, 2005).
"Just because the United States has its largest trade deficit ever doesn't mean that we're living beyond our means. Far from it. [...] The most natural, proper, and economically correct response of the foreign exchange markets is for the U.S. terms of trade to have declined and that's exactly what has happened. As far as I can tell, the decline in the dollar is about over; soon we will see the U.S. capital surplus falling back to more normal levels. When a global economic system works as well as ours does, we should just leave it alone."


Now in 2005 he said this.

As far as I can tell, the decline in the dollar is about over

This statement alone should forbid anymore postings from the supply sider. They are wrong. You need to balance out expenditures. Please no more Arthur B. Laffer links.

those selective quotes 'prove' absolutely nothing, paticuarly on the substance of what amounts to common sense economics.


a simple look at the GDP growth of the last decade shows that things have been pretty darn good.

the fallacy of pointing to "trade defceits" as being a bad thing is it completely ignores the other side of the equation which is Foreign Investment, which has been through the roof. partly due to a weaker dollar....in the end the economy has grown and we've all become MORE PROSPEROUS as shown in the "Income Inequality Myth".

and bolding the bush part is moronic, anyone that says bush is the 'worst president ever' like they are some sort of Oracle that can see the future, therefore anyone that says the opposite must be delusional is out of their mind. the truth is nobody can say with any certainity where he will go down in history, but we do know how the Economy has faired, objectively speaking, thus far which is good.

the "size of the Pie" has grown. Since Art Laffer economics were put into place under Reagan the GDP has TRIPLED. Rising Tides lift all boats...

One other aspect on oil prices is not just USA consumption which is still using 1/4 of all oil consumed by the entire world, but consumption by China has doubled in the past 5 years as has India. In fact India may be closing in on China. So, those who recall Economics 101. When demand is high prices are high. If prices begin to soar too much more, American will begin to conserve energy by selling SUV's and switching to small fuel efficient cars. Thermostats will start to be adjusted. Solar and nuclear power will start being investigated more thoroughly. And when America does such things OPEC panics. Because if the US cut its usage by 10% that would cut demand by 2,000,000 bbls/day.

Machiavelli Wrote:It's not the price of crude as much as the falling dollar. We have to DEFEND the dollar. That starts by curtailing spending and raising revenue. Never in our history have we spent so much and cut taxes along the way. It's not hard to understand. The falling dollar is the reason for crude's spike.

The reason oil is more expensive is because of its scarcity...as is gold. The reason the dollar is devalued is the printing on "non backed" currency. If the dollar was backed by gold or another scarce commodity ...1)..you cant flood the money supply since it was backed by a scarce commodity..2) You couldnt start silly wars and other nonsence because the government would have to "raise" the funds to do it by bonds or raise taxes...You would have to have a VERY committed country to wage war...as it should be.
BRING BACK HARD MONEY

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:OPEC has its collective hands around the USA's throat.

That's largely irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of our oil comes from Canada and Russia -- both nations not in OPEC. Oil will *NEVER* again be low enough for us to see $0.99/gallon gas. Given how we are approaching peak oil very soon as well, it will only get worse. We're merely living the gas prices the rest of the world has for the last few decades.

Actually 57% of the US oil comes from OPEC nations

Saudi Arabia 18.0%
Venezuela 13.4%
Nigeria 13.0%
Angola 4.7%
Iraq 4.1%
Algeria 3.7%

Crude Oil and Total Petroleum Imports Top 15 Countries

I was a little surprised by the OPEC number. The Non-OPEC nations of Canada 19.2% and Mexico 13.3% account for 1/3 of all imports. While 1/3 comes from non-OPEC members they still sell on the world market and they aren't going to give us a discount because we are NAFTA partners. According to this data Russia imports to the US are not in the top 15. Not sure of the difference between total Petroleum imports v. Crude Oil, Russia does factor in to the top 15 in that ranking. I suspect Petroleum imports include what is used for Petrochemical industry.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:OPEC has its collective hands around the USA's throat.

That's largely irrelevant. The overwhelming majority of our oil comes from Canada and Russia -- both nations not in OPEC. Oil will *NEVER* again be low enough for us to see $0.99/gallon gas. Given how we are approaching peak oil very soon as well, it will only get worse. We're merely living the gas prices the rest of the world has for the last few decades.

Actually, you are wrong about the irrelevance. IF/When the OPEC nations determine that the dollar is crap, they will switch to trading Oil in Euro's and you will see just how bad our economy truly can get. Our economy is in bad shape.

GrayBeard Wrote:Actually, you are wrong about the irrelevance. IF/When the OPEC nations determine that the dollar is crap, they will switch to trading Oil in Euro's and you will see just how bad our economy truly can get. Our economy is in bad shape.

Yeah, and since our economy is consumer-based, based on consumer confidence, just how long did the Dims think it would take when they constantly tell the consumer, on a daily basis, that the economy is going in the tank? Kinda worked well for the Dims, didn't it? People listen. People stop buying ****. The economy goes in the tank. Doesn't take a Rocket Scientist, really.

I'd like to know if the DOE counts the use of the DoD in those figures. The DoD alone ranks in the Top 50 worldwide (among NATIONS) in oil use.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I'd like to know if the DOE counts the use of the DoD in those figures. The DoD alone ranks in the Top 50 worldwide (among NATIONS) in oil use.

Protecting a nation of 300+ Million people takes funds. Those tanks, HMMWVs, 5-Tons, Strykers, F-16s, F-117s, Carriers, and Destroyers don't run on corn byproducts.

I'm starting to think we need another world war for people to start realizing just how good they actually have it. The only reason we HAVEN'T is BECAUSE of our military strength.

Just because we've done the best job ever in history doesn't mean we should blindly accept our country rapidly spiraling down the crapper economically, politically, and in regards to civil liberties.