http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/04/thank-you-telecom/

The Bush administration has launched an aggressive campaign to pressure the House into passing retroactive immunity for telecoms that participated in the government’s warrantless wiretapping program.

Because they complied in illegally wiretapping their customers, telecoms currently face around 40 lawsuits. Yesterday in a speech to the National Association of Attorneys General, Bush sharply criticized Americans who are suing the telecoms:

Now the question is, should these lawsuits be allowed to proceed, or should any company that may have helped save American lives be thanked for performing a patriotic service; should those who stepped forward to say we’re going to help defend America have to go to the courthouse to defend themselves, or should the Congress and the President say thank you for doing your patriotic duty? I believe we ought to say thank you.

=====================================

Whole-Lee-****. The telcos violate their own terms of service, our civil liberties and Constitutional rights, and nearly every digital privacy law in the books .... and WE SHOULD THANK THEM?!?

They didn't randomly tap people. They were specific people who were believed to be communicating with terrorist organizations.

No one tapped your phone GTS to see how you were strategizing your next Ron Paul rally or whatever.

You don't know who they tapped. No one knows. We all have heard the stories where computers have all of them tapped and record after key words are said. The only way this will come to light is through the lawsuits. Those who give up liberties for freedom deserve neither.

Machiavelli Wrote:You don't know who they tapped. No one knows. We all have heard the stories where computers have all of them tapped and record after key words are said. The only way this will come to light is through the lawsuits. Those who give up liberties for freedom deserve neither.

national security is a Civil Liberty, the one that secures all others. Now if you are a kook and think there are no terrorist living within, then there would be no use for this. But stuff like this has occurred since the days of George Washington, every wartime president and every modern day president since atleast FDR

Ninerfan1 Wrote:They didn't randomly tap people. They were specific people who were believed to be communicating with terrorist organizations.

No one tapped your phone GTS to see how you were strategizing your next Ron Paul rally or whatever.

The ENTIRE San Francisco bay area AT&T datacenter was tapped by the NSA! The EFF is suing the bejesus out of AT&T because of it. Get your facts straight.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

Ninerfan1 Wrote:They didn't randomly tap people. They were specific people who were believed to be communicating with terrorist organizations.

No one tapped your phone GTS to see how you were strategizing your next Ron Paul rally or whatever.

The ENTIRE San Francisco bay area AT&T datacenter was tapped by the NSA! The EFF is suing the bejesus out of AT&T because of it. Get your facts straight.

Well, it is San Francisco. I can't think of a more likely place to look for terrorist colaborators.

Second, tapping the data center and tapping a phone are very different things. Tapping a data center means they scan the records of the calls looking for key phrases. It's a computer program, not someone listening in. Actually tapping the phones to listen in on what is being said is different.

Don't worry GTS, I'm sure your militia meetings remain undiscovered.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:Well, it is San Francisco. I can't think of a more likely place to look for terrorist colaborators.

Second, tapping the data center and tapping a phone are very different things. Tapping a data center means they scan the records of the calls looking for key phrases. It's a computer program, not someone listening in. Actually tapping the phones to listen in on what is being said is different.

Don't worry GTS, I'm sure your militia meetings remain undiscovered.

So you want to dissolve all Constitutional rights for gays, liberals, or just anybody you don't agree with? You're already on a roll with being dead wrong on what the telcos are doing ... so don't let me stop your lies and implied bigotry.

The fact of the matter is, the NSA has no right to spy on internet traffic without a warrant. They don't have one. That's why the legislation to give telcos retroactive immunity is in DC to begin with. Bush tried to close EFF vs. AT&T on the grounds that prosecution could divulge "intelligence" or "government secrets". The judge laughed him clear out of court. If the telco immunity bill doesn't pass, the EFF will clean house with AT&T and you'll start seeing class action suits.

And if defending civil liberties makes me a terrorist, as you so imply, then sign me the hell up to be one.

http://www.eff.org/nsa

Go get educated on this matter.

Quote:So you want to dissolve all Constitutional rights for gays, liberals, or just anybody you don't agree with? You're already on a roll with being dead wrong on what the telcos are doing ... so don't let me stop your lies and implied bigotry.

Guess sarcasm is one of the first things to go when you're a Ron Paul guy huh?

Lighten up Francis.

And you're saying San Fran is only gays and liberals? Who's bigoted now oh holy one?

Quote:And if defending civil liberties makes me a terrorist, as you so imply, then sign me the hell up to be one.

You go boy. :ugaexams:

What is the breadth the Right of Privacy (which we now know is hidden in the penumbras of the Constitution)? And what is the breadth of the Fourth Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure? First, the tapping isn't being done to arrest U.S. nationals and cannot be used against them in a criminal case. It is being used to find out who foreign nationals (who are known terrorists are communicating with). In other words, this is just to find out who we need to watch, not incarcerate. If they go the next step and get a FISA warrant to search the person, then whatever they find can be used against them after the warrant is issued. I quite frankly am more concerned about people with cellphone cameras and YouTube than I am concerned about NSA.

EastStang Wrote:What is the breadth the Right of Privacy (which we now know is hidden in the penumbras of the Constitution)? And what is the breadth of the Fourth Amendment rights against illegal search and seizure?

What's the phrase? The Constitution isn't a suicide pact?

Ninerfan1 Wrote:Guess sarcasm is one of the first things to go when you're a Ron Paul guy huh?

Lighten up Francis.

And you're saying San Fran is only gays and liberals? Who's bigoted now oh holy one?

The only people I've ever met with a sense of humor regarding politics don't vote anymore.

And everybody on the planet takes your sentence regarding San Francisco that way.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:And everybody on the planet takes your sentence regarding San Francisco that way.

How dare you embrace the bigotry!!!

Next you'll tell me everyone on the planet thinks only moss eating, tree hugging granolas live in Berkley.

Well one other thing to remember, if the companies did nothing wrong what do they have to worry about? They should be confident in defending themselves.

RobertN Wrote:Well one other thing to remember, if the companies did nothing wrong what do they have to worry about? They should be confident in defending themselves.

Thank you for stating the obvious.....I applaud your reason.

The Telcos got in bed with the govt.....Anyone that does...should be ready for their interference and be subjected to the unintendended consequences....When will businesses learn?....The govt. is a band of thugs that only look after its OWN...NOT you!!

911 turned our nation in to a country of pu##ies...scared of our own shadows...Its a shame...If Bin Laden is alive...He is laughing his ass off.

RobertN Wrote:Well one other thing to remember, if the companies did nothing wrong what do they have to worry about? They should be confident in defending themselves.

legal fees and potential loss I suppose for helping the govt. like only they can with data mining numbers for key phrases.

all the Dems are doing, and their useful nitwits are playing along with, is lying about their being "civil liberty' violations and placating to their Trial Lawyer special interest group. eventually they'll give in because they don't want blood on their hands.

one example of many, the Brooklyn Bridge would not be here without these data mining activities, under this system a plot was thwarted right before it happened. its irrational to wait until after something(and people) are blown up before you track them down

GGniner Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:Well one other thing to remember, if the companies did nothing wrong what do they have to worry about? They should be confident in defending themselves.

legal fees and potential loss I suppose for helping the govt. like only they can with data mining numbers for key phrases.


all the Dems are doing, and their useful nitwits are playing along with, is lying about their being "civil liberty' violations and placating to their Trial Lawyer special interest group. eventually they'll give in because they don't want blood on their hands.

one example of many, the Brooklyn Bridge would not be here without these data mining activities, under this system a plot was thwarted right before it happened. its irrational to wait until after something(and people) are blown up before you track them down

I have NO sympathy for those that choose to further the force of the government against its citizens....Monetary loss is a fine penalty for lack of princple...or in this case lack of guts to stand up for the liberty of the very people that allow your business to prosper.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:I have NO sympathy for those that choose to further the force of the government against its citizens....Monetary loss is a fine penalty for lack of princple...or in this case lack of guts to stand up for the liberty of the very people that allow your business to prosper.

they are standing up for Liberty, thats the point. National Security is a Civil Liberty, the most important of them and one that allows a business to 'prosper'. When 9/11 happened, alot of citizens lost alot of liberty, whether their actual lives or economic liberties. It was a 1 trillion dollar hit on our economy, so really it effected us all in some form on that level at a minimum.

GGniner Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:I have NO sympathy for those that choose to further the force of the government against its citizens....Monetary loss is a fine penalty for lack of princple...or in this case lack of guts to stand up for the liberty of the very people that allow your business to prosper.

they are standing up for Liberty, thats the point. National Security is a Civil Liberty, the most important of them and one that allows a business to 'prosper'. When 9/11 happened, alot of citizens lost alot of liberty, whether their actual lives or economic liberties. It was a 1 trillion dollar hit on our economy, so really it effected us all in some form on that level at a minimum.

Let them tap your phone...Get yourself a realID...Submit yourself to search and seisure...Let them implant you with RFID and comply with any other nonsence they wish to come up with...Do what ever is necessary for YOUR civil liberty.

Im happy to not comply..thank you.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03...wer-f.html

A U.S. government office in Quantico, Virginia, has direct, high-speed access to a major wireless carrier's systems, exposing customers' voice calls, data packets and physical movements to uncontrolled surveillance, according to a computer security consultant who says he worked for the carrier in late 2003.

"What I thought was alarming is how this carrier ended up essentially allowing a third party outside their organization to have unfettered access to their environment," Babak Pasdar, now CEO of New York-based Bat Blue told Threat Level. "I wanted to put some access controls around it; they vehemently denied it. And when I wanted to put some logging around it, they denied that."