RebelKev Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:How the hell did Israel ever get nukes? One leads to another.

BTW, Fanatical, these are mostly the "good" people doing that(ie. non-fundamentalist: non-Al-Q, non-Taliban) but it seems like you think all Pakistani's are fundamentalist. You should watch something other than Faux news.

Israel doesn't have the destruction of another culture as one of their tenets. That's why they're trusted with Nukes.....if they even have them. Nice try though.

You forget Kev Robert Al-N hates Jews, so by default them having nukes violates what the world should be.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:While I do think some of his policies helped this happen

I'd be very interested to hear exactly which ones you're referring to.

His middle east policies.

Which are....what, exactly?

Take your pick. Starting with Israel policies to Iraq war policies. They pretty much are all seen in the region as anti-Islamic. Oh, also the US support of Bhutto didn't help her any either.

RebelKev Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:How the hell did Israel ever get nukes? One leads to another.

BTW, Fanatical, these are mostly the "good" people doing that(ie. non-fundamentalist: non-Al-Q, non-Taliban) but it seems like you think all Pakistani's are fundamentalist. You should watch something other than Faux news.

Israel doesn't have the destruction of another culture as one of their tenets. That's why they're trusted with Nukes.....if they even have them. Nice try though.

While I disagree with that statement, we will say that is the case, it is the American position. In that area of the world they see it as a threat. Being they see it as a threat, they see it as their obligation to protect their populations so they feel a need to get them as well. In Pakistan, they also have to worry about India which the US basically backed when they got nukes.

The problem is you are looking at if from a single direction when there are multiple ways to look at the subject. You look from an anti-Islamic viewpoint and ignore the other side.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:How the hell did Israel ever get nukes? One leads to another.

BTW, Fanatical, these are mostly the "good" people doing that(ie. non-fundamentalist: non-Al-Q, non-Taliban) but it seems like you think all Pakistani's are fundamentalist. You should watch something other than Faux news.

Israel doesn't have the destruction of another culture as one of their tenets. That's why they're trusted with Nukes.....if they even have them. Nice try though.

You forget Kev Robert Al-N hates Jews, so by default them having nukes violates what the world should be.

Actually, if I am not mistaken they according to the non-"nucular" treaty, Israel is not supposed to have them. But because the government(over many years and Presidents) stands with Israel no matter what they do, we look the other way.

BTW, I don't hate Jews(yes, I believe there was a Holocaust in case you were wondering). I just think all sides should be treated fairly and not have us choose one side over the other.

RobertN Wrote:Take your pick. Starting with Israel policies to Iraq war policies. They pretty much are all seen in the region as anti-Islamic. Oh, also the US support of Bhutto didn't help her any either.

Ah, so our policy with Israel, that's been in place for 6 decades, and the Iraq war which has been going on since 2003 when she wasn't even in the country, contributed to Islamic radicals killing her? Makes perfect sense.

Though you claimed to disagree with the moronic and looney DU post that blamed Bush, you really just blame America as a whole.

BRILLIANT!!

Any idiot that blames Israel for the Islamic problem should, IMO, give up their voting rights. Why? Because they are apparently obtuse to the problems occurring in France, England, the Netherlands, numerous African nations, Indonesia, the Philippines, etc., etc., etc. Israel has not a damn thing to do with the issue. It is but a mere excuse. No Islamic country gives a **** about the "Palestinian"..... whatever the hell that is.

...and Robert? They win, you and your kind are the first ones they're coming for. They don't like liberals, homes.

RobertN Wrote:

Fanatical Wrote:Looks like Musharraf will still be in power.

Situation normal for the US.


In Karachi, capital of Ms Bhutto's native Sindh province, thousands took to the streets, torching dozens of vehicles and buildings.
How the hell did they ever get nukes?

How the hell did Israel ever get nukes? One leads to another.

BTW, Fanatical, these are mostly the "good" people doing that(ie. non-fundamentalist: non-Al-Q, non-Taliban) but it seems like you think all Pakistani's are fundamentalist. You should watch something other than Faux news.

Not everyone who disagrees with you watch Fox News 24/7.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Not everyone who disagrees with you watch Fox News 24/7.

Well, since liberals ALWAYS accuse me of doing so, my morning consists of watching a woman that really wants me, Robin Meade, and my evenings consist of Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, Friends (I know, but I'm too lazy to change it from TBS), Family Guy, and Southpark.

....and I disagree like hell with RobertN.

RebelKev Wrote:

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Not everyone who disagrees with you watch Fox News 24/7.

Well, since liberals ALWAYS accuse me of doing so, my morning consists of watching a woman that really wants me, Robin Meade, and my evenings consist of Seinfeld, Everybody Loves Raymond, Friends (I know, but I'm too lazy to change it from TBS), Family Guy, and Southpark.

....and I disagree like hell with RobertN.

You watch too much bad TV.

RobertN Wrote:BTW, Fanatical, these are mostly the "good" people doing that(ie. non-fundamentalist: non-Al-Q, non-Taliban) but it seems like you think all Pakistani's are fundamentalist. You should watch something other than Faux news.

C'mon now, get on the ball. I'm a labeled liberal!!! By definition if I ever watch Fox News my head would explode

And yes I know that most people around the world are normal folk just trying to keep a roof over their heads and food on their tables.

Fanatical Wrote:By definition if I ever watch Fox News my head would explode

I watch her on Fox every morning and my head DOES explode...

Forget suspects, it's hard enough to pine down a cause of death. Now it's being reported that she didn't die of a gunshot or bomb shrapnel but that she died of a fractured skull caused by her hitting her head on a lever inside the car.

RobertN Wrote:

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

RobertN Wrote:How the hell did Israel ever get nukes? One leads to another.

BTW, Fanatical, these are mostly the "good" people doing that(ie. non-fundamentalist: non-Al-Q, non-Taliban) but it seems like you think all Pakistani's are fundamentalist. You should watch something other than Faux news.

Israel doesn't have the destruction of another culture as one of their tenets. That's why they're trusted with Nukes.....if they even have them. Nice try though.

You forget Kev Robert Al-N hates Jews, so by default them having nukes violates what the world should be.

Actually, if I am not mistaken they according to the non-"nucular" treaty, Israel is not supposed to have them. But because the government(over many years and Presidents) stands with Israel no matter what they do, we look the other way.

BTW, I don't hate Jews(yes, I believe there was a Holocaust in case you were wondering). I just think all sides should be treated fairly and not have us choose one side over the other.

You are mistaken. This is really easy to find out, Robert, and you'd look a lot less ignorant if you would do that. It's been posted here many times that Israel is not a signatory, and have no Treaty obligations that prevent them from developing nuclear weapons, unlike Iraq, Iran, and North Korea, which have all violated treaty obligations by developing or proliferating nuclear weapons. Israel, India, Pakistan, and N. Korea are the only countries that are not part of the non-proliferation treaty, but N. Korea had obligations with the US govt. to suspend nuclear development and (I believe) proliferation activities as part of a bi-lateral agreement with the Clinton administration.

WMD Owl Wrote:

Fanatical Wrote:How the hell did they ever get nukes?

A. Q. Khan was the "Robert Oppenheimer" of the Paki Nuke Program... he guided it from start to finish..

This guy is VERY BAD NEWS...Then he decided to go "Free Agent" and sell nuclear weapon designs and nuclear technology to any nation that had the cash, with at least the implicit permission of the Pakistan Government. When his activities came to light, Musharraf put him under "house arrest" for a few months, then gave him a full pardon.

Khan has also refused to be interviewed by US Intelligence as to his clients and activities....

IMO, he should have been "whacked" years ago...

Among Khan's KNOWN clients:

North Korea
Iran
Libya

Khan's rumored/suspected clients:
Saudi Arabia,
Syria.

I heard an interview with an author who I believe had interviewed Bhutto. The story was that the military had trouble getting funding for weapons and asked Bhutto to travel to N. Korea with a military attache. She didn't really know or understand what she was there to talk about, but "trusted" the military. Apparently, the attache was there to negotiate an exchange of weapons for $$ for military to use, thus allowing the military to be a self-funding arm of the Pakistani govt. I don't think that Bhutto suspected any nuclear transaction until well after the fact.

jh Wrote:Now its being reported that she didn't die of a gunshot or bomb shrapnel but that she died of a fractured skull caused by her hitting her head on a lever inside the car.

Yea right... sure.. she bumped her head.....

No autopsy either...

The Pakis can't cover up a wet dream, much less an ISI hit on a opposition leader...

WMD Owl Wrote:

Yea right... sure.. she bumped her head.....

No autopsy either...

The Pakis can't cover up a wet dream, much less an ISI hit on a opposition leader...

I question it as well, but it's not like the ISI gives a rat's ass that she's an "opposition candidate", that is, if you're talking about Musharif. The ISI isn't exactly Pervez's main group of supporters. If they did kill her, it was because of their loyalty to the dirtbag warlords.

RebelKev Wrote:The ISI isn't exactly Pervez's main group of supporters. If they did kill her, it was because of their loyalty to the dirtbag warlords.

There are at least 4 Pakistani foreign and internal security agencies, including the ISI.

Bhutto previously stated that if she was killed the likely suspects would be Punjab Chief Minister Parvez Elahi, Intelligence Bureau head Ijaz Shah, former Inter Services Intelligence Head Hamid Gul and ex-deputy chairman of National Accountability Bureau Hassan Waseem Afzal.

While this may be her paranoia, someone in that SUV did something to her if she wasn't hit by a bullet or shrapnel.

The other thing I've seen is that even if Musharaff wasn't involved with the asassination, he still doesn't benefit from her turning into a martyr & downplaying the violent nature of her death (from shot/shrapnell to oops, I've fallen & I can't get up) helps avoid this.

My guess over the next year, depending on what Iran does, things in Iraq will continue to get better and things in Pakistan will heat up as the Jihadist turn their attention to that region again and their nukes.