http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/sports/AP-...gin&oref=slogin

7. Mountain West -- Two seasons ago Utah became the first team from outside the high-revenue leagues to reach the BCS. TCU went 11-1 last season with a road win against Oklahoma. The MWC's depth might be better than the Big East's, but it doesn't have the heavyweights up top.

9. WAC -- Fresno State does some great things against top competition but never wins the league. Boise State isn't quite ready to hang with the nation's top teams, but the Broncos clean up in their conference. Although Nevada has improved, the rest are homecoming fodder for the power schools.

Homecoming fodder is a pretty good line..The same could be said about the lower half of the MWC too..

nvspuds Wrote:Homecoming fodder is a pretty good line.. The same could be said about the lower half of the MWC too..

Only UNLV. Air Force beat Washington last year. Wyoming beat UCLA two years ago.

UNLV is bad, but Utah State, SJSU, Idaho, and NMSU are worse.

Utah State beat Nevada Southern the last two years in a row didn't they?

eldermars Wrote:

nvspuds Wrote:Homecoming fodder is a pretty good line.. The same could be said about the lower half of the MWC too..

Only UNLV. Air Force beat Washington last year. Wyoming beat UCLA two years ago.

UNLV is bad, but Utah State, SJSU, Idaho, and NMSU are worse.

In it's current state, Washington isn't a power anything. Neither is Air nonForce.

eldermars Wrote:UNLV is bad, but Utah State......are worse.

Apparnetly someone forget to think before he typed. (Again.)

Let me remind our special friend who seems to have memory and ignorance problems.


Las Vegas, NV 9/25/04 USU 31 Nevada-Las Vegas 21

Logan, UT 9/24/05 USU 31 Nevada-Las Vegas 24

Once again, PLEASE TRY TO GET UP TO SPEED BEFORE MAKING DUMB POSTS. It is really a stupid habit.

erdaaggie Wrote:Apparnetly someone forget to think before he typed.

Oh, the irony is rich here.

Fluke games and upsets happen. UNLV beat SDSU last year. SDSU is still a better team.

I considered USU's wins over the Rebels and then posted anyway. UNLV (with their PAC-10 transfers under new head coach ex-Utahn Sanford) is getting better. Utah State (with their drug-related disipline issues, team dismissals and suspensions) is, if anything, getting worse.

Sagarin 2005- http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm
UNLV 108th
Utah State 136th

Pre-season rankings- http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
UNLV 107th (94-115)
Utah State 112th (104-115)

2006 football recruiting: Scout.com- http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2006
UNLV 88th
Utah State 118th

Rivals.com- http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/tea...e=0&Sort=0
UNLV 73rd
Utah State 101st

ED...surely you know that once you get so far down, these national services aren't paying you any attention. The difference between 107 and 112 is a joke. You gotta go to what happens on the field.

eldermars Wrote:

erdaaggie Wrote:Apparnetly someone forget to think before he typed.

Oh, the irony is rich here.

Fluke games and upsets happen. UNLV beat SDSU last year. SDSU is still a better team.

I considered USU's wins over the Rebels and then posted anyway. UNLV (with their PAC-10 transfers under new head coach ex-Utahn Sanford) is getting better. Utah State (with their drug-related disipline issues, team dismissals and suspensions) is, if anything, getting worse.

Sagarin 2005- http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt06.htm
UNLV 108th
Utah State 136th

Pre-season rankings- http://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
UNLV 107th (94-115)
Utah State 112th (104-115)

2006 football recruiting: Scout.com- http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=14&yr=2006
UNLV 88th
Utah State 118th

Rivals.com- http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/tea...e=0&Sort=0
UNLV 73rd
Utah State 101st

Oh you caught a typo. As you can see I was typing a little to fast and put the n before the e. Man do I feel sheepish. But at least I was capable of putting the content in there. You should try that sometime.

See here is your problem. These are just predictions. You have been incorrectly predicting for the past few years that BYU is returning to glory etc. Each year you are wrong.

Now I know USU football is not good, but you are saying that 2 (not just one) wins are flukes. That is just a shortsighted presumption on your part, once again without basis. WHAT MATTERS MOST IS WHAT HAPPENS ON THE FIELD. USU has beaten them twice, has finished with a better overall record, therefore over the past 2 years they were better. Ratings calculate a lot of things, but the head to head is still the most important criteria. Ratings calculate SOS etc. and that is something a team cannot always control.

You can throw out recruiting rankings, etc. but they don't matter on Saturday. BYU has supposedly outrecruited Utah the past few years, but it certainkly hasn't shown ON THE FIELD.

Now as for next season, I don't if UNLV will be better than USU. Neither do you. You are just making broad generalizations. Granted, for once, you have at least used ratings to try to back up your claims, but you say USU is getting worse. They are returning several starters, played a ton of players last year that are coming back, and have upgraded the running game. So I don't buy into rivals or scout's recruiting. I do know that you are trying to make predictions into facts. After the season is over, we will see.

Here is the bottom line for last year.

USU won more games than UNLV, and won the head to head. They were better for that reason. UNLV may have upset SDSU, but SDSU still won more games, just like USU.

This is getting good with eldermars. He is making fun of the USU football team because a couple players get caught with pot. Hey eldermars, how about members of your team taking underage girls back to their place, showing her porno and getting her drunk and then taking turns on her? How about the other group of your players while at a party all taking turns on a drunk track runner in front of the rest of the party?

Eldermars, if you're going to bring up poor choices of players from another team you should remember that yours have made even worse.

Apparantly down in Vegas, From what my parents said, UNLV believes they will challenge for the MWC Title this year.

However Air Force is facing some tough times unfortuately and Washington isn't the team it has been since they chased Neuhisel off.

However all is predictions. I really don't pat attention to that sort of thing really since for some it builds up or tears down a fan in some circumstances. That is what I don't like preseason polls either. Let them get on teh field and play for a little while before doing that kind of thing.

erdaaggie Wrote:Oh you caught a typo. As you can see I was typing a little to fast and put the n before the e. Man do I feel sheepish. But at least I was capable of putting the content in there. You should try that sometime.

Sorry I can't help you open the links. See, you "click" on them. With your mouse. Try that next time.

erdaaggie Wrote:See here is your problem. These are just predictions. You have been incorrectly predicting for the past few years that BYU is returning to glory etc. Each year you are wrong.

Every year, I'm top 5 percentile for my college football/basketball predictions. BYU is a little closer to home though. In 2004, I predicted 7-4 and we went 5-6 (with a blown field goal at Boise State). In 2005, I predicted 8-4, and we went 6-6 with two overtime losses and a bowl game loss. This year, I started off predicting 8-4 regular season, but have since moved that number up to 9-3. And I should be fairly accurate -again- (within two games).

erdaaggie Wrote:Now I know USU football is not good, but you are saying that 2 (not just one) wins are flukes. That is just a shortsighted presumption on your part, once again without basis. WHAT MATTERS MOST IS WHAT HAPPENS ON THE FIELD. USU has beaten them twice, has finished with a better overall record, therefore over the past 2 years they were better. Ratings calculate a lot of things, but the head to head is still the most important criteria. Ratings calculate SOS etc. and that is something a team cannot always control.

No, you aren't good. Neither is UNLV. Last year was the fluke loss for the Rebels. The year before that, you were actually better I think. Basis is, even with a head-to-head win you had a lower Sagarin rating in '05. They are a slightly better program right now because they have improved while USU has not (transfers, recruiting). At least you have 3 similar programs in the WAC (SJSU, Idaho, NMSU) while UNLV is alone at the bottom of the MWC. It's a nice way for even a bad WAC team to get a few wins. What happened on the field last year matters little when comparing teams this year. Or did you not notice the Texas/OU games in 2004 and 2005? Sometimes even comparing teams over the same season, like TCU/SMU.

erdaaggie Wrote:You can throw out recruiting rankings, etc. but they don't matter on Saturday. BYU has supposedly outrecruited Utah the past few years, but it certainkly hasn't shown ON THE FIELD.

Good recruiting doesn't matter?!? In 2004, BYU was creamed by Utah- badly. In 2005, we lost in overtime. No difference on the field you say? Watch the games pal. Or at least check the final score.

eldermars Wrote:

nvspuds Wrote:Homecoming fodder is a pretty good line.. The same could be said about the lower half of the MWC too..

Only UNLV. Air Force beat Washington last year. Wyoming beat UCLA two years ago. UNLV is bad, but Utah State, SJSU, Idaho, and NMSU are worse.

I like how you put yourself out there, em. You ready for the taunts if the parochial stench finds a way not to thump USU in pwovo? Post-Lavell history would indicate your kids are not up to dominating much of anybody.

Moreover, USU is 2-0 over Vegas the last 2 seasons. How does that make USU worse than Vegas?

eldermars Wrote: Every year, I'm top 5 percentile for my college football/basketball predictions. BYU is a little closer to home though. In 2004, I predicted 7-4 and we went 5-6 (with a blown field goal at Boise State). In 2005, I predicted 8-4, and we went 6-6 with two overtime losses and a bowl game loss. This year, I started off predicting 8-4 regular season, but have since moved that number up to 9-3. And I should be fairly accurate -again- (within two games).

HA HA HA HA HA. lmfao You got within two games. That means last year you could have predited anything between a 4-7 to an 8-4 season and would have been within two games. Just call you Nostradomus. I could have predicted a 1-10 to a 5-6 season for USU and been within two games of the actual record. That is pretty funny that you are bragging about being within two games. You should be awfully proud at landing within a 5 game spread.

eldermars Wrote: No, you aren't good. Neither is UNLV. Last year was the fluke loss for the Rebels. The year before that, you were actually better I think. Basis is, even with a head-to-head win you had a lower Sagarin rating in '05. They are a slightly better program right now because they have improved while USU has not (transfers, recruiting). blah blah blah

Well as long as we are on the subject BYU is not good either. Good programs don't have 4 straight non-winning seasons and 1 winning season in the last 6 years. I know it is tough for you to swallow this pill, but basically you guys are average at best. You didn't win a single OOC game against D-1 competition. In the past 4 years you have gone 19-27 against D-I teams. That means that you aren't good either.

Here you go again stating that head to head doesn't matter and trying to use the TCU/SMU as an excuse. Look if USU had beaten UNLV and they finished 11-1 or even 7-4, I'd agree with you. But they finished 2-9. You say the game was a fluke and they were better, but they certainly didn't prove it on the field. That is what matters most. You can state your opinion or whatever, but the fact remains USU beat UNLV 2 years in a row and had a better record. So it is just your ignorant opinion. A difference between 107-112 is statistically insignificant in that range. It mainly signifies that USU played a little weaker schedule. But once again this is what matters in the end, the scoreboard and overall record.

As far as your ignorance goes, it shows again. If you are just discussing preseason predictions, then consider this. The WAC preseason newcomer of the year is a RB at USU. USU also signed a record setting QB, etc etc etc. We have also signed several late transfers as well. I'm not saying UNLV isn't getting better, but USU isn't standing still or regressing either.

eldermars Wrote: Good recruiting doesn't matter?!? In 2004, BYU was creamed by Utah- badly. In 2005, we lost in overtime. No difference on the field you say? Watch the games pal. Or at least check the final score.

Okay I knew the final scores, but if you want me to bring them up again, here goes. (I guess you are a glutton for punishment.)

2002 Utah 13 BYU 6
2003 Utah 3 BYU 0 (ending the longest non-shutout streak in NCAA history.) :shhh:
2004 Utah 52 BYU 21
2005 Utah 41 BYU 34

Now if you are saying that all that matters is you were close in most games, then let's look at the recent BYU/USU games.

1997 BYU 42 USU 35
1999 BYU 34 USU 31 (OT)
2000 BYU 38 USU 14
2001 BYU 54 USU 34 (A game which USU held a 13 point lead in the 3rd quarter.)
2002 BYU 35 USU 34

I'm not claiming moral victories in these games, but using your logic USU is almost as good as BYU since BYU is almost as good as Utah. We played close games for the most part (2000 the main exception.) I really don't believe that USU is almost on par with BYU, nor do I believe that BYU is almost on par with Utah. But hey you said it.

erdaaggie Wrote:Well as long as we are on the subject BYU is not good either. Good programs don't have 4 straight non-winning seasons and 1 winning season in the last 6 years. I know it is tough for you to swallow this pill, but basically you guys are average at best.

Of course they do- all programs do. Penn State, Notre Dame, and Nebraska had been down for years before last season.

BYU is good. 2001- We were very good (MWC champs, 10-win season). In 2002 and 2003, we were bad (perhaps terrible). In 2004, we were mediocre. In 2005, we were good (2nd MWC). This season, we should be very good.

erdaaggie Wrote:Using your logic USU is almost as good as BYU since BYU is almost as good as Utah. We played close games for the most part (2000 the main exception.) I really don't believe that USU is almost on par with BYU, nor do I believe that BYU is almost on par with Utah. But hey you said it.

What did I say? That Utah State was on par with BYU back in 2002? They were. That BYU was on par with Utah back in 2004? They weren't. That BYU was on par with Utah in 2005? Overall, the Cougars were better playing common opponents (2nd in conference, as opposed to 6th). Too bad we lost the big one last year- head-to-head. That USU was on par with BYU in 2005? They weren't. BYU beat UNLV 55-14, UNLV beat them 31-24. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?...&year=2005

BYU is voted to take 2nd in the MWC this year, Utah 3rd. Utah State was voted to finish near the bottom of the WAC. BYU will beat Utah State this year by 21+, easy.

eldermars Wrote: Of course they do- all programs do. Penn State, Notre Dame, and Nebraska had been down for years before last season.

BYU is good. 2001- We were very good (MWC champs, 10-win season). In 2002 and 2003, we were bad (perhaps terrible). In 2004, we were mediocre. In 2005, we were good (2nd MWC). This season, we should be very good.

BYU was once good under a different coach. They tied for 2nd in a mediocre conference, still finished 5-6 against D-1. That is not good, nor matter what spin you put on it. They have 19-27 record over the past 4 years against D-1. That is not good. You are trying polish a turd here. As for your amazing predictions that BYU should be very good, I refer you to your predictions of the past two years.

Incidentally how many coaches has BYU had that led them to prominence? Because those other schools have had several. BYU's glory days could very well be done.

eldermars Wrote: What did I say? That Utah State was on par with BYU back in 2002? They were. That BYU was on par with Utah back in 2004? They weren't. That BYU was on par with Utah in 2005? Overall, the Cougars were better playing common opponents (2nd in conference, as opposed to 6th). Too bad we lost the big one last year- head-to-head. That USU was on par with BYU in 2005? They weren't. BYU beat UNLV 55-14, UNLV beat them 31-24. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teamsched?...&year=2005

BYU is voted to take 2nd in the MWC this year, Utah 3rd. Utah State was voted to finish near the bottom of the WAC. BYU will beat Utah State this year by 21+, easy.

No I said that over the past 5 games, USU has actually had very close games to BYU. Not just in 2002. That is why I put all those games up. As long as you continue to use comparative scores, I guess USU was better in 2004. We beat UNLV, you did not. The only other common opponent was Utah who beat us both. ;-)

21 points huh? That is pretty bold for a team that has gone 19-27 againt D-1 over the past 4 years.

hmm I didn't know that BYU got shut out in 03. That is good but of course that is the longest streak in I-A because I think nevada has the longest streak from I-AA to I-A.

However I expect BYU to be good this year and challenge for the MWC title. BYU came on strong last year and I think they can challenge this year. I think they might finally has a coach that has that kick in them that Lavell Edwards did before the ending of his career.

However onto the point, I think USU is better than UNLV the last two years but this year I don't know. To many problems at USU and UNLV might be another year away before the kids really get the new system that was brought it, if it works at all. One thing about it, if UNLV gets behind that system really doesn't work well for them.

erdaaggie Wrote:Incidentally how many coaches has BYU had that led them to prominence? Because those other schools have had several.

It all depends on what you mean by "prominence". If you mean a coach who has led BYU to a conference championship or a bowl game, the answer would be 4. Four would = "several". Coincidentally, BYU has had only 4 head coaches since 1965. Stupid question. You show your ignorance here.

eldermars Wrote: It all depends on what you mean by "prominence". If you mean a coach who has led BYU to a conference championship or a bowl game, the answer would be 4. Four would = "several". Coincidentally, BYU has had only 4 head coaches since 1965. Stupid question. You show your ignorance here.

Give me a break. BYU football is defined by one coach and one coach only. If you are trying to imply otherwise, you show your ignorance. USU has had 2 coaches in the past 14 years that have led them to "prominence." They have have won 3 conference championships and have gone to two bowl games. But even as an Aggie homer, I don't believe that they have achieved football prominence.

Lavell was a class act (I've actually met him a few times), and I even read his autobiography. (I would bet I know a lot more about this than you.) Before he came along BYU was a laughingstock. (His own words.) They had one conference championship before he came along which was somewhat of a fluke. They had never been to a bowl either. (Granted bowls were far less plentiful back then, but USU had been to three and turned another down in 1962. Utah had been to 2.) They had never been ranked, while USU was twice before he took over. They had a terrible record against Utah, nearly as bad of one against USU.

Edwards even said he modeled some of his ideas after what USU had done, specifically Jon Ralston. Ralston was a run oriented coach, but changed his tactics while coaching at USU, and then especially at Stanford. He said that he felt BYU and Stanford had a lot in common since they both had to be selective in who they recruited. (For different reasons of course. This is according to Edwards not me.) So with this idea in mind, he was hired as a little known assistant. He introduced a new style of offense, played in an incredibly bad conference after ASU and Arizona left in 1978. They had 20 during his tenure, but have had 2 without him. Besides him they have had no one of significance. The last coach that led BYU to a winning season and a bowl game was run out of town. Do you really want Crowton back?

Now let's ask this again. How many coaches have proven that they can consistently win at BYU especially now that most teams across the country run passing offenses? (The answer is obvious since they named the stadium after him.) BYU does not have a winning football tradition, Lavell Edwards does. Without him BYU is 105-264 in football games for a total of a 39.8% winning percentage. So until someone comes along that proves they can manage the honor code, missionaries coming and going, and other things that BYU faces, I don't buy that they have a winning program. They have a coach that won there who was bigger than the team, not the other way around.