Toshiba develops micro reactors. interesting concept. I know very little about this particular technology and I'm wary of the idea that it is "fail-safe", but this looks like it could be pretty cool.

That does sound interesting. They didn't really elaborate on what to do with the spent Lithium, though. I would think that would be the biggest issue. Well, that and the fact that you have a nuclear reactor in your back yard...

They mention Japan and the U.S., but I would think that the best use for an application like this would be some 3rd world country that doesn't have the money to install all the infrastructure necessary to give electricity to everyone.

An example of why we need to let the free market solve almost every problem we have...But Ill bet you that the government will step in and before the 1st one of these are installed in the US, the the Dept. of Energy will find a way to regulate,licence,tax and god knows what else...to drive up the cost and make this less attractive as an energy alternative....Watch and see the powercompany and coal lobbys swarm congress to get this nixed.

I believe if you install solar panels on your house and you become neutral or even generate power back into the grid your meter will go in reverse and by law the energy company has to cut you a check.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Toshiba develops micro reactors. interesting concept. I know very little about this particular technology and I'm wary of the idea that it is "fail-safe", but this looks like it could be pretty cool.

I wonder how much (and what type) of fissile material is in this reactor?

No way in Hell DOE would ever approve this for use in the US, for any number of reasons..

WMD Owl Wrote:

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Toshiba develops micro reactors. interesting concept. I know very little about this particular technology and I'm wary of the idea that it is "fail-safe", but this looks like it could be pretty cool.

I wonder how much (and what type) of fissile material is in this reactor?

No way in Hell DOE would ever approve this for use in the US, for any number of reasons..

Another reason to disband the DOE

The US won't even build macro nuclear reactors, i doubt these will show up on city blocks


could be used in space though....

Fanatical Wrote:The US won't even build macro nuclear reactors, i doubt these will show up on city blocks


could be used in space though....

I really wish the price of a barrell of oil would go to $200 ....you would see the free market spur and embrace this type of alternative energy....This is just one of many great ideas that our intrusive government will doubtlessly nix without huge public outcry.

blah Wrote:They didn't really elaborate on what to do with the spent Lithium, though. I would think that would be the biggest issue. Well, that and the fact that you have a nuclear reactor in your back yard...

Of all places to pose that question, you'd think the Spin Room would be the one to come up with the obvious answer. Maybe we could even lift the ban on Endzone.

I thought I'd posted this Bussard video previously, but it looks like Toshiba may have ponied up the $200 million he needed to implement his patents.

Should Google go Nuclear, Clean, Cheap Nuclear Power

(need admin help on posting google videos - this one is 90 minutes long, so it's not too suited to inline video, but how do you post google video inline?)
[gvideo]1996321846673788606[/gvideo]

edit: BTW, my previous avatar was the Bussard Polywell Fusor. Robert Bussard recently died on October 6.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:I really wish the price of a barrell of oil would go to $200 ....you would see the free market spur and embrace this type of alternative energy....This is just one of many great ideas that our intrusive government will doubtlessly nix without huge public outcry.

....if only people understood that one concept of free market Capitalism.

Ok, this is not the same thing as the Bussard Polywell Fusor. That Fusor uses Boron and Hydrogen and has the feature that it produces no radiation, meaning there's no chance of contamination or meltdown (provided it's feasible, which I'm not really qualified to say). As such, there is no potential for military use beyond that of a power plant (i.e. it won't go "boom" ... the original funding came from the Navy, not the DoE).

Here is more info on the Toshiba design: Energy Information Administration: New Commercial Reactor Designs. It's claim to fame is that it runs on Uranium or Uranium-Plutonium alloys in remote locations, and "It requires only minimal staffing". Now, what could possibly go wrong with that?

Quote:4S
(Toshiba)
Synonyms: Super Safe, Small, and Simple
Approximate Capacity (electric): 10 MWe, larger possible
Reactor Type: Sodium-cooled
NRC Design Certification Status: Manufacturer and sponsor are developing a pre-application approach.
Supporting Generating Companies (potential site): Town of Galena, Alaska
The 4S is a very small molten sodium-cooled reactor designed by Toshiba. The reactor presently being considered is 10 MWe though larger and smaller versions exist. The 4S is intended for use in remote locations and to operate without refueling during its 30-year life. The 4S has been compared with a nuclear “battery” because it does not require refueling. The lack of refueling would mean that the reactor’s fuel supply would be a capital cost rather than an operating cost. It has been suggested that the fuel might be relatively low cost, reprocessed spent fuels originating from more conventional power reactors. Other potential fuels are uranium or uranium-plutonium alloys. If uranium is the fuel in the United States, plans call for 19.9 percent fuel enrichment, just below the 20 percent definition of highly enriched uranium. The use of molten-sodium as a coolant is not new, having been used in many fast breeder reactors. Toward the end of 2004 the town of Galena, Alaska granted initial approval for Toshiba to investigate building a 4S reactor in that remote location. The design is also under consideration for other locations in Alaska. Most recent discussions target completion around 2013, though the schedule is not firm. Galena and Toshiba officials discussed their plans with the NRC in early February 2005 and plan additional filings over the coming years. The NRC indicated that it was not familiar with the 4S design and that design certification (at vendor expense) might be costly and prolonged. Design certification can be incorporated in the COL process thus it is unclear if a separate design certification will be pursued, if the project continues.
Further Information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba_4S http://www.atomicinsights.com/AI_03-20-05print.html http://www.iser.uaa.alaska.edu/Publications/Galena_power_draftfinal_15Dec2004.pdf#search='Toshiba 4S'

I also like this blurb: "Depending on a variety of assumptions, the cost for power could range as low as 6 cents per kilowatt hour. Unfortunately, there are scenarios where the cost per kilowatt hour could approach infinity."

RebelKev Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:I really wish the price of a barrell of oil would go to $200 ....you would see the free market spur and embrace this type of alternative energy....This is just one of many great ideas that our intrusive government will doubtlessly nix without huge public outcry.

....if only people understood that one concept of free market Capitalism.

They understand that. But when the administration is doing everything it can to keep oil prices from rising, this won't happen.
We interfere in the Muddle East to hopefully ensure that oil will continue to flow to our liking. We want to drill everywhere and anywhere the oil companies want as long as they can make large profits, regardless of the environment or any other interests at stake. And they use national security and energy self-sufficiency as the reason that we need to allow oil drilling wherever the oil companies want. All because the administration is worried that if oil prices rise a lot in a reasonably short period of time, the economy is hurt by it, at least in the short run. Which is a valid concern.

NIU007 Wrote:They understand that. But when the administration is doing everything it can to keep oil prices from rising, this won't happen.
We interfere in the Muddle East to hopefully ensure that oil will continue to flow to our liking. We want to drill everywhere and anywhere the oil companies want as long as they can make large profits, regardless of the environment or any other interests at stake. And they use national security and energy self-sufficiency as the reason that we need to allow oil drilling wherever the oil companies want. All because the administration is worried that if oil prices rise a lot in a reasonably short period of time, the economy is hurt by it, at least in the short run. Which is a valid concern.

...and yet the oil companies' profit margins are still some of the lowest in the country.

My point is that for some reason we keep hearing that we need to drill in ANWR, the Pacific Northwest, off the coast, etc., supposedly so we have enough oil. But if we don't drill there, at worst, supply drops slightly and oil prices rise a little. Which is what was just hoped for in the above post. If we need to drill for oil just so the oil companies can stay in business, that's another issue. For obvious reasons nobody is using that as the reason.

NIU007 Wrote:My point is that for some reason we keep hearing that we need to drill in ANWR, the Pacific Northwest, off the coast, etc., supposedly so we have enough oil. But if we don't drill there, at worst, supply drops slightly and oil prices rise a little. Which is what was just hoped for in the above post. If we need to drill for oil just so the oil companies can stay in business, that's another issue. For obvious reasons nobody is using that as the reason.

This nation needs a national crusade, similar to putting a man on the moon to develop cheap,safe,renueable power that would eliminate the need for foreign oil imports...or oil at all

Fo Shizzle Wrote:This nation needs a national crusade, similar to putting a man on the moon to develop cheap,safe,renueable power that would eliminate the need for foreign oil imports...or oil at all

Rickshaws powered by liberals is my solution.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

NIU007 Wrote:My point is that for some reason we keep hearing that we need to drill in ANWR, the Pacific Northwest, off the coast, etc., supposedly so we have enough oil. But if we don't drill there, at worst, supply drops slightly and oil prices rise a little. Which is what was just hoped for in the above post. If we need to drill for oil just so the oil companies can stay in business, that's another issue. For obvious reasons nobody is using that as the reason.

This nation needs a national crusade, similar to putting a man on the moon to develop cheap,safe,renueable power that would eliminate the need for foreign oil imports...or oil at all

I agree. And high oil prices do make it easier for alternative energy sources to become commercially viable. Perhaps tax incentives or prizes for important developments in alternative energy would help - not sure what is out there already but it should be expanded.

I noticed that the stock prices of many solar-power companies have gone through the roof lately, made a little money myself on those. That's one energy source that is practical for some areas. They need to develop better storage devices, especially batteries, so solar power can be stored for times when it is cloudy, or night time. The same batteries could be useful for other applications. Just a thought, not an expert on that, certainly. But you can put solar panels in places that wouldn't be used otherwise, like on roofs. And it is free energy, unlike trying to turn the entire nation's corn crop into gas. Don't know much about geothermal but in certain areas it is practical.

The latest Scientific American had an article about how, for a $480 billion dollar investment & some modest technological advances, solar power could replace oil as our primary energy source by around 2050. One thing that I thought was interesting is that their preferred storage method was compressed air in underground caverns (it's vented as needed to power turbines).