In a recent article from the indy star Montana had the most ticket sales of any other D1AA school. Interestingly enough, the article didn't mention UC Davis who isn't a private school. They simpley failed to mention them. I looked up UC Davis' athletic budget and this is what I found:

Quote: In fact, before the transition to D-I was announced in March 2003, UCD had the most student-athletes and the largest athletic budget of all the D-II schools.

And this year's budget is more than triple what it was during the school's D-II days, thanks to the Campus Expansion Initiative, which passed in November 2002.

http://www.californiaaggie.com/media/sto...9790.shtml

I found another article stating that Davis' athletic budget was around 6million.

Quote:This season the school can offer 45 percent of the maximum that the NCAA allows to be given in scholarships to student-athletes. This number will go up to 60 percent in 2005-2006 and 75 percent in 2006-2007 before UCD reaches full D-I status in 2007-2008.

UC Davis should be kept on the radar screen. A travel partner for La Tech seems to be a difficult task and UC Davis would be an excellent safety valve, IMHO, all assuming that D1A members are not on the radar.

The future expansion issue should be and probably is a huge concern for the WAC. Quite frankly other than Montana, there aren't many candidates in the west ready right now for D1 football, as far as attendance and facilities. I think that expansion could be the single most important factor for the WAC. Who knows if the MWC will make a run at some WAC schools for expansion, or if a CUSA defection would cause a move on La Tech or NMSU. If anything destroys the WAC, as it currently exists, it could be the dreaded expansion issue that seems to happen every few years. I hope the WAC has a good survival plan in place in the event schools leave. Another thought on WAC expansion, I would like to see Sac State and UC Davis make the commttment to the funding and anything else necessary to step up to D1-A in football, also I would like to see Pacific bring back D1-A football as well. For the WAC members in Nevada and California, those games can be reached by car and should also bring alot of fans to those road games, plus they usually have good Fall weather. Sac, Davis and Stockton can easily be accessed from Boise or Salt Lake and El Paso by air by flying into Sacramento. It probably won't happen, but it's at least an option for the WAC to think about.

UC Davis may not be in the database because they're in transition...or they may be among the 24% of schools that didn't respond (along with Idaho, Portland St, and others).

Here are some more numbers pulled from Indystar's database.

Total Operating ($ spent)
Fresno State University

It's just too early to tell anything about expansion needs.

The WAC doesn't need to expand just for the sake of expansion - and there is nobody out there that would bring extra dollars into the WAC other than Montana - which doesn't want to come.

Who knows what the Big East and then CUSA will do (or the MWC)? No doubt the WAC offices are staying abreast of the possibilities and potential candidates. And it's the university presidents who ultimately decide anyway.

IMO a more pressing need is for the presidents to make sure they are working together to meet the needs of all conference members - or at least getting closer.

NuMexAg Wrote:The WAC doesn't need to expand just for the sake of expansion - and there is nobody out there that would bring extra dollars into the WAC other than Montana - which doesn't want to come.

The only likely team to leave the WAC would be La Tech, IMHO. Their budget is just barely better than that of Utah St (keep in mind that Utah St is not reaping the rewards of the conference yet, since they have to pay entrance fees still). Their travel costs are nearly equivalent or worse than that of Hawaii. Hawaii's athletic budget is 22million compared to 11 million. Hawaii has thrived despite the travel costs, but La Tech can't thrive that way. At the first chance that the Big East has to add a 9th football member, they'll do so and it'll come from C-USA and it'll likely be Memphis. At the moment that the Big East calls Memphis, C-USA will be on the phone with La Tech. And La Tech will jump at the chance to be in a more regional conference.

At that point, the WAC needs to be ready to add Cal Davis or Montana (given that no other D1A schools show interest in the WAC that are worth considering). Either one of these teams would reduce travel costs in the WAC considerably. Montana would provide a basketball team that has been to the dance along with a very competitive football program. Cal Davis would add a greater stronghold in northern California, which could be more valuable than anything Montana can add.

The WAC needs to be ready for this. I don't see any WAC teams heading for the MWC any time soon. This is the only likely scenario, IMO.

I agree that the WAC should not expand just for the sake of expansion. Some of the reasons for expansion are . #1. To improve the conference #2. replace just one departing school #3. be prepared to survive expansion that may come from multiple direction.

As another poster pointed out,The Big East could again cause movement in CUSA, what if they decided to take two? Say Memphis and East Carolina, CUSA may look at the possibility of adding both La Tech and NMSU. Add the MWC taking SMU or Houston as a travel partner for TCU or the MWC expands to 12 and takes a school or two from the WAC. Will any of that happen, who knows? IMO, the WAC has no candidates ready to move into the WAC for D1-A football from the west, and as pointed out Montana may not wish to move . If the WAC has not made future provisions to bring in a school like UCD and Sac State (examples only) and that probably takes years, then what, back to looking at the Sun Belt for a football playing member?

I still think that being prepared for the future with viable expansion D1-A football candidates located in the west is a major priority. Anybody in the old Big West got to experience football schools dropping one by one, Long Beach State, Cal State Fullerton, Pacific, etc. the end result was a Big West football consortium with some of the now Sun Belt schools and Northern Illinois. It kept the Big West playing football but no one really liked the set up. The end result was the Big West dropped football, who needs to face that same possible scenario in the WAC ? Granted WAC schools probably won't drop football like what happened in the Big West, but they still may be future expansion targets. Some may think the WAC has a plan, I hope they do.

DAvis would be a good addition in regards to the number of alumni in the Bay Area and quality of football they put out. However, their stadium is small as is their budget. Sac State may be more likely as they currently compete in the WAC in other sports.

I don't think we should expand just to expand but my OCDC tendencies like 10 schools better than 9. I think a plan should be put in place now by the WAC in case other conferences come calling for La Tech or others.

Quote:The only likely team to leave the WAC would be La Tech, IMHO. Their budget is just barely better than that of Utah St (keep in mind that Utah St is not reaping the rewards of the conference yet, since they have to pay entrance fees still).

Not a slam on Tech, but that school does not fit the historical CUSA expansion model -- metro area, large athletic budget, nice facilities, good attendance. Tech is a small school in a rural area; nearby Shreveport is an LSU town. CUSA has passed on Tech already; being in the CUSA footprint will not do it as CUSA focuses on other factors.

Schools that more closely fit the CUSA expansion model would be schools such as Toledo, UNT (DFW area), MTSU (Nashville area and the largest enrollment in Tennessee), FIU (Miami area and coming up fast), FAU (wealthy Boca Raton between Miami and West Palm Beach and coming up fast). Florida and Texas are hotbeds for Southern football talent; prime expansion states.

If only UOP hadn't given up hope when SJS jumped ship from the BWC . . . a FB-playing UOP, even a UOP playing at the level the Tigers could sustain back when, would have been a clear and obvious WAC choice. And a nice travel destination (well, not exactly nice -- I've been to Stockton) for San Jose, Fresno and Nevada fans.

Quote:Not a slam on Tech, but that school does not fit the historical CUSA expansion model -- metro area, large athletic budget, nice facilities. Tech is a small school in a rural area; nearby Shreveport is an LSU town. CUSA has passed on Tech already; being in the CUSA footprint will not do it as CUSA focuses on other factors.

Schools that more closely fit the CUSA expansion model would be schools such as Toledo, UNT (DFW area), MTSU (Nashville area and the largest enrollment in Tennessee), FIU (Miami area and coming up fast), FAU (wealthy Boca Raton between Miami and West Palm Beach and coming up fast). Florida and Texas are hotbeds for Southern football talent; prime expansion states.

I agree that La Tech is far from a shoo-in for CUSA. Again - no slam to Tech - they do a great job in a tough location - but I think No. Texas would be a much more likely pick for CUSA (especially now that SMU seems to be over its "we're too good for UNT" attitude ( well - at least toned it down a notch). If you look at potential - UNT far exceeds La Tech.

I think that Idaho is the backup plan for LaTech leaving the conference.

Obviously, if Montana decided to go 1A tomorrow, there would be a WAC invite waiting for them. UC-Davis has great potential, but I'd guess that they may be as much as a decade away from 1A.

I do think that 50 years from now, we will see some of the Big West schools who abandoned football bring it back. Their plan worked for awhile--and their athletic department thrived, but now the BCS money is trickling down into the "other" sports. Non-football playing schools that were powerhouses are now being slowly wiped out as the BCS schools start to use their BCS money to win in these smaller sports.

What if the WAC added 3 teams and went into divisional play and added a title game, would you be in favor? The three schools that I think are most IA ready are Montana, UC Davis, and NDSU. Montana is ready, they have the facilities and support to make it work now. UC Davis is getting close and will be much closer when they're new stadium is completed. NDSU is new to DI but our AD and Prez both mentioned being like Troy and moving from DII to IA quickly and we have the budget, support, and facilities to make such a move.

East
New Mexico State
LA Tech
NDSU
Montana
Idaho
Boise St

West
UC Davis
Fresno St
Utah St
Nevada
San Jose St
Hawaii

If the WAC went to 12 it would be protected against losing teams to other conferences and this would also add a conference title game for football which would more then likely be on ESPN.

If there's a conference that has learned its lesson about "big" conferences...it's the WAC.

I don't think you'll see the WAC conference any larger than 10 teams.

FargoBison Wrote:What if the WAC added 3 teams and went into divisional play and added a title game, would you be in favor? The three schools that I think are most IA ready are Montana, UC Davis, and NDSU. Montana is ready, they have the facilities and support to make it work now. UC Davis is getting close and will be much closer when they're new stadium is completed. NDSU is new to DI but our AD and Prez both mentioned being like Troy and moving from DII to IA quickly and we have the budget, support, and facilities to make such a move.

East
New Mexico State
LA Tech
NDSU
Montana
Idaho
Boise St

West
UC Davis
Fresno St
Utah St
Nevada
San Jose St
Hawaii

If the WAC went to 12 it would be protected against losing teams to other conferences and this would also add a conference title game for football which would more then likely be on ESPN.

You can't put Boise State in a different division from Fresno and Nevada!
You can't put North Dakota in the WAC!

It is not North Dakota being discussed, it is North Dakota State University, the BISON located in Fargo ND, that is being proposed here. Just wanted to make that very important clarification.

I doubt anybody would have any information on this, but does anyone know if Karl Benson has ever made any effort to try to convince Gonzaga to move to the WAC? Generally speaking, I think he is wise not to add any non-football schools, but Gonzaga is the one school that I think he should seriously be considering. With Gonzaga in the conference, the WAC would easily be the top non-BCS basketball conference in the country; I think we might even be able to give the PAC-10 a run for their money. I can't imagine any WAC schools would want to defect to the MWC or any other conference under that scenario.

(Admittedly, even if Benson were open to the idea, I can't imagine that Gonzaga would accept an invitation right now. The WCC is one of the most stable conferences in the country, and the WAC is one of the least stable. But if all the current WAC members agreed to stay put, I think Gonzaga might consider it... And that would be one really scary basketball conference.)

I think Gonazaga would be great, I wouldn't think the WAC would interest them though.

Since they have raised their program to a national level I doubt they have difficutly getting good opponents (plus they have been willing to go on the road a play tough teams without a return game). The only benefit I could see for them to move to the WAC is to increase the quality of their conference schedule. And IMO they might not even want to do that.

Consider two different scenarios:
1) Gonzaga scenario: Play tough OOC opponents (away if need be), win some (OK- many) of those games. Boost your RPI. Play a middling conference slate, with a few tough games, but mostly winnable games. With a talented team it's relatively easy to get up to play the tough opponents, and you can take a small break playing the not so tough in your conference.

2) WAC scenario: Play a hodge-podge of OOC opponents (whichever good teams you can get to play home and home, and a few weak teams at home) then play a very tough conference schedule with some brutal travel requirements and take your lumps - maybe winning a lot, but still ending up with several losses.

Sceanrio 1) gets you ranked higher, and leaves you in better shape to face the post season.

In short - I'm not sure Gonzaga would want to play a WAC schedule - they may have nothing to gain.

(But if they want to I'm all for it! )

StanfordAggie Wrote:I doubt anybody would have any information on this, but does anyone know if Karl Benson has ever made any effort to try to convince Gonzaga to move to the WAC? Generally speaking, I think he is wise not to add any non-football schools, but Gonzaga is the one school that I think he should seriously be considering. With Gonzaga in the conference, the WAC would easily be the top non-BCS basketball conference in the country; I think we might even be able to give the PAC-10 a run for their money. I can't imagine any WAC schools would want to defect to the MWC or any other conference under that scenario.

(Admittedly, even if Benson were open to the idea, I can't imagine that Gonzaga would accept an invitation right now. The WCC is one of the most stable conferences in the country, and the WAC is one of the least stable. But if all the current WAC members agreed to stay put, I think Gonzaga might consider it... And that would be one really scary basketball conference.)

Actually, StanfordAggie, if we take the Big East as an example, this is a VERY, VERY good idea. The Big East had 8 teams, if I remember correctly, dancing. Many of their BB teams don't have football. If the Big East can do this and be very profitable, why can't the WAC? Even if we were to add Pacific, this wouldn't be a bad idea, IMO. But Gonzaga would be the best choice. And for those who say that Gonzaga wouldn't hold her own, you are missing the point. Gonzaga would add so much media attention and revenue to this conference, it would be mind boggling, IMO. They are literally carrying the WCC and we could only help their cause with the strength of our conference in BB.

The way I see it, now, we'll have 3-4 teams dancing next year. If Gonzaga were in this conference, you could guarantee they'd be another team dancing, IMO.
You could have Nevada (if Fazekas stays and possibly even if he doesn't), Utah St, NMSU, Gonzaga and possibly Fresno St all in the RPI top 50. Only BCS conference achieve that kind of greatness.

With that many teams in the top 50 RPI, we'd have teams getting good seeds. That would be a first for Utah St. I'd love to see what WAC teams could do with good seeds in the tournament! Add into that all the NCAA credits and tournament money that would come from that. The potential is endless. It may be enough revenue to make a difference in FB....

Nice dream.

Any reason why you left Nevada out of the WAC budget compilations? I am sure they would look good. Also, there is no school in the University of California system called "Poly-SLO" I believe, if you wanted to be formal, it would be California State Iniversity Polytechnic in San Luis Obisbo. But being formal would also cause you to refer to California State University at Fresno. ;-)

SpartaRick Wrote:Any reason why you left Nevada out of the WAC budget compilations? I am sure they would look good. Also, there is no school in the University of California system called "Poly-SLO" I believe, if you wanted to be formal, it would be California State Iniversity Polytechnic in San Luis Obisbo. But being formal would also cause you to refer to California State University at Fresno. ;-)

Nevada's included (as "University of Nevada"). The only WAC school not included is Idaho. Nevada having an operating budget of over $20M surprised me...they're usually shown to be more in the $15M range. Of course, who knows to what degree we're comparing apples and oranges.

As for Cow Poly, I just cut and pasted schools the way they're listed. BTW, how come you never hear about Cow Poly-Pomona anymore?