Mach your getting to be worse then EZ.
cool off.

Tulsa.............

I may be many things to many different people............................. but that's a low, low blow you had there. On my darkest days I don't compare to EZ.

Machiavelli Wrote:Of course I care about Tillman. He was a national hero. He gave up millions to serve his country.

So, that's what makes a national hero in your book? Someone who gives up millions to enlist? I know EVERYTHING Ranger Tillman had to go through, Basic Infantry course at Benning, Airborne to get his P identifier, Ranger Indoctrination program, then onto Ranger school. You don't give a rat's ASS about Tillman. You care about him only because it supports your dumb*** assertion. You have not ONCE spoken up for anyone else and, like I said, the ONLY reason this is being given attention is because it is Pat Tillman, someone who WANTED to just be one of the soldiers.

As for the guy before you that questioned me, this ENTIRE thread was about you, Dogger (Mach for all you Noobs) denigrating the US Military. Your ENTIRE point was trying to lay the claim that the Rangers were murderers and the ******* military was incompetent. Funny he had no problem with that, but as a soldier, I DO. **** you Dogger.

As for you being a Mod, it'll never happen. BTW, I don't know if you know this or not, although it's pretty f'n clear, I'm an Admin, not a f'n Mod. I do pretty well here NOT abusing my power and no one can make the claim that I don't.

Tillman is a political tool for you to nail Bush, but you have YET to tie Bush into the scenario. ....although like an idiot you've tried.

Machiavelli Wrote:Tulsa.............

I may be many things to many different people............................. but that's a low, low blow you had there. On my darkest days I don't compare to EZ.

You're both fruitcakes, so I disagree.

I'm making the claim that you do not follow the AUP. Reread the post. I'm questioning the cover up. Why are we finding about this five years later? More importantly why is the Tillman family finding about this five years later? Why were they stonewalled?

Enough of these kind of posts........

Quote:trying to lay the claim that the Rangers were murderers and the ******* military was incompetent.

He doesn't give a rat's ass about CPL Tillman.

**** you Dogger

you mo-ron

These kind of rants just cheapen the debate. Enough of them. Notice I never said he was fragged. I siad he may have been. I don't know. I just know they have lied to the Tillman family. For criss sakes even the Army Dr. called for an investigation and we are finding out about this five years later.. .... Is the Dr. a moonbat who is just trying to smear Bush? Come on............... No enemy fire was found at the scene!!!!!!![/align]

Dogger, you don't even know what fragging is. Your entire point of this post was to stir up emotions, call our Rangers murderers, the Army incompetent, and somehow tie all that **** to Bush.

As for cheapening the debate, that happened when you first typed this BS:

"Was Tillman fragged?"

You know who I am, what I do, and what I've done. Don't expect me to be polite when you post BS like this meant to denigrate our US Military in an attempt to smear Bush.

Reb,

When you look at the evidence. Is it possible? Is it beyond the scope of reality? Obviously not. That's why the Dr. called for an investigation. Heck the chaplan said the story from O'Neal had holes in it.

Machiavelli Wrote:Reb,
When you look at the evidence. Is it possible? Is it beyond the scope of reality? Obviously not. That's why the Dr. called for an investigation. Heck the chaplan said the story from O'Neal had holes in it.

What is a fragging, Dogger? Come on, show us how smart you are.

Machiavelli Wrote:Why are we finding about this five years later? More importantly why is the Tillman family finding about this five years later? Why were they stonewalled?

Ummm.... something about "Articles of War". SOME actions will be classified for decades. Classification doesn't mean wrong-doing or cover-up. It is SOP, and has been for a century or more. The fact that we have become a society that THINKS it has the right, much less the intelligence to analyze complex military and political situations (not speaking of anyone in particular, but "the public" in general) well enough to be able to provide meaningful commentary as opposed to simple "political fragging" is insane.

Pointing fingers is easy and popular. It's hard to defend yourself when information is classified or sensitive.

Hambone10 Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:Why are we finding about this five years later? More importantly why is the Tillman family finding about this five years later? Why were they stonewalled?

Ummm.... something about "Articles of War". SOME actions will be classified for decades. Classification doesn't mean wrong-doing or cover-up. It is SOP, and has been for a century or more. The fact that we have become a society that THINKS it has the right, much less the intelligence to analyze complex military and political situations (not speaking of anyone in particular, but "the public" in general) well enough to be able to provide meaningful commentary as opposed to simple "political fragging" is insane.

Pointing fingers is easy and popular. It's hard to defend yourself when information is classified or sensitive.

Spot on. Some in this country would prefer the CIA/NSA/military intelligence to post all of their data to a public message board with a poll attached on possible actions.

Hambone10 Wrote:Pointing fingers is easy and popular. It's hard to defend yourself when information is classified or sensitive.

this is why its so easy to politicize a war, and brainwash the voters into voting you in over it...

Here is a good example of this from the Reagan era, the Korean Airlines flight the Soviets shot down....

Recalling KAL 007

Quote:"In an act that surprised many within the U.S. intelligence community, the U.S. delegation to the United Nations played tapes of intercepted communications between Soviet fighter pilots and their ground control. While not publicly claimed, it is almost certain that these communications were originally encrypted."

Saying that President Reagan's decision to release a portion the information we had regarding this incident "surprised many within the intelligence community" is an understatement of colossal magnitude. This release of information by Reagan absolutely shocked the intelligence community!

Releasing this information to the public, not only compromised almost our entire East Asian listening network, it also gave the Soviets considerable information about our intelligence gathering methods, capabilities, and techniques.

The tradeoff was Reagan's desire to publicize this incident to further paint the Soviet Union as the "Evil Empire" it indeed was. Much was made of the fact that the Soviet Fighter planes never actually made visual contact with the Korean airliner, and US Intelligence knew that the final decision to shoot it down was actually made in Moscow. US Intelligence monitored all of those communications and the decisionmaking process.

As Jack Kelly wrote in his April 11, 2006 column appearing on RealClearPolitics: "Presidents are authorized to declassify sensitive material, and the public benefits when they do." Political hacks like Joe Wilson and Richard Clarke in concert with very biased anti-administration media organizations run a dangerous bluff when they espouse positions publicly that they know to be untrue, but that fit their political agenda. They bet that certain information won't be declassified and they look like fools when it is released.

of course this is a case of them declassifying something to make the Soviets look bad at the cost of hurting our intelligence gathering severly. No telling what is classified now that they know and explains their actions but they can't release for similar reasons.

Venona Decrypts are another great example of this