SO

i understand what you are saying about ND. But that deal of playing 3 BE games yearly is their way of sticking with the FB schools if a split happens. Those long deals they signed with pitt and RU will get their votes. remember if ND comes to visit you your season sales will go up like they did at Pitt when the only way ND fans could get to game was buying season tix.
Theyll get Pitt,RU probably Syracuse since they play them sometimes to vote for them and theyll convince UL or WVto do same by signning to play them soon. You wait n see

If Im the football schools i make them play four games and have to play ALL the BE schools home/away in a rotating schedule

Either go to a 12 team super conference or a 9 team conference, add ND, Memphis, BC, or Southern Miss in that order.

I would say that once the current deal with ND is done, if they want to remain in an association with the BEast then they must join. Otherwise, they can broker their own deal - with TV and the BCS. BEast football is strong enough to stand on its own now. We don't need the Irish like we did when this deal was first brokered. They need us far more than we need them now.

Cubanbull Wrote:SO

i understand what you are saying about ND. But that deal of playing 3 BE games yearly is their way of sticking with the FB schools if a split happens. Those long deals they signed with pitt and RU will get their votes. remember if ND comes to visit you your season sales will go up like they did at Pitt when the only way ND fans could get to game was buying season tix.
Theyll get Pitt,RU probably Syracuse since they play them sometimes to vote for them and theyll convince UL or WVto do same by signning to play them soon. You wait n see

Cuban
Whether you phrase it as 3 BE games or 3 EC games. The principle of ND plays every region of the country still hold the same. A deal is just a formal PR on their part. Even if they don’t announce publicly they still play Pitts and Rutgers due to their location, for their subway fans and recruit. It can’t benefit UConn unless they play UConn. It can’t benefit WVU unless they play WVU. It can’t benefit UL unless they play UL. So unless Pitt, RU and SU give all of us a lot of incentive like they always visit our home then we will vote no. What is it for us? It’s best for ND stay in the BE. If ND want to play UConn men and women basketball and other sports they need to include their football if they do care about UConn sport then ND shouldn’t be in the same conference as us.

cuseroc Wrote:

RealDeal Wrote:

tigersharktwo Wrote:An old idea of a 12 team conference included the 8 football schools,ND,StJohns,Villanova and Georgetown.

I like a 12 team conference but it needs to be 9 FB schools and 3 BB only schools. This gives you an 8 game conference schedule in football. In basketball you have two divisions, you play your division home and home for 10 games and the other division once for 6 games.

If we split, we need to split to rid ourselves of this hybrid hodgepodge. No since in splitting just to form another mess. Besides, if the fb schools took 3 bb schools with them, that would destroy the other bb schools. First, and foremost, if I remember correctly, theres' something about schools having to be together for five years, and you must have a minimum amount of schools to form a conference. Taking 3 schools from the bb schools would only leave them with 5 programs, which may not be enough for a league. Mickey T would never allow that to happen to his precious bb league.

The other problem is that once you take away Villanova, Gtown and ND from the BE bb schools, your stuck with another version of the Atlantic 10. If the bb schools were allowed to all stay together, they would be a very good league, and as good or better than a couple of bcs leagues now. I would certainly miss Nova and Gtown being in the same conference, but that maybe a sacrifice that we may have to deal with in order for the fb schools to progress.

We don't need those schools other than for tradition. UC, SU, UCONN and UofL all have more basketball tradition and profile than all three of those schools. Throw in PITT and add another dominant basketball program and the league won't miss them at all. The only consideration would be their markets and their penetration in those markets.

Cubanbull Wrote:If Im the football schools i make them play four games and have to play ALL the BE schools home/away in a rotating schedule

They are not going for it. To ND, we are trash. They consider joining ACC in all-sport after 7 years but they never offer same deal to us. It’s best not to consider any special deal with ND.

SO#1 Wrote:

Cubanbull Wrote:If Im the football schools i make them play four games and have to play ALL the BE schools home/away in a rotating schedule

They are not going for it. To ND, we are trash. They consider joining ACC in all-sport after 7 years but they never offer same deal to us. It’s best not to consider any special deal with ND.

I believe with the recent success of the BE they will reconsider...unless they don't think they can compete with WVU or UofL

L-yes Wrote:We don't need those schools other than for tradition. UC, SU, UCONN and UofL all have more basketball tradition and profile than all three of those schools. Throw in PITT and add another dominant basketball program and the league won't miss them at all. The only consideration would be their markets and their penetration in those markets.

Pitt makes a name for them selves for these pass few years and WVU with a new coach attract a lot of interest. Market is regional but if you are a national program they will follow you regardless. So now you can consider 6 basketball programs in the Eastern Conference that is attractive for TV about 60 conference games out of 112 total conference games that will draw a lot of interest.

UCbball21 Wrote:

SO#1 Wrote:

Cubanbull Wrote:If Im the football schools i make them play four games and have to play ALL the BE schools home/away in a rotating schedule

They are not going for it. To ND, we are trash. They consider joining ACC in all-sport after 7 years but they never offer same deal to us. It’s best not to consider any special deal with ND.

I believe with the recent success of the BE they will reconsider...unless they don't think they can compete with WVU or UofL

That kind of deal suggest by Cuban should be short term only after a number of years then they have to join us all the way or leave.

PusherT Wrote:I hope the leaders at G'town,Nova realize whats going to happen to them.BB recruiting will eventually dry up when Thompson III and Jay Wright can't promise those elite recruits games against Uconn/Uofl/WVU etc those hurting them. Nova and G'town need to go 1A football the BCS invite is there

There is no BCS invitation pending for Georgetown. Tranghese has said as much.

SO
Trust me I wish that IF the split does happen the presidents of the new league would have the balls to tell ND to either join or go with the non-football members.
We might lose Gator Bowl deal but hey the reality is that bowl would choose ND over any BE team if they re available.

No matter, who would add when we split, they must join for both basketball and football! ND in for all or goodbye!

Cubanbull Wrote:SO
Trust me I wish that IF the split does happen the presidents of the new league would have the balls to tell ND to either join or go with the non-football members.
We might lose Gator Bowl deal but hey the reality is that bowl would choose ND over any BE team if they re available.

Do we really have the Gator Bowl? Before 2003, we split time with ND and get at least 50% of the time now we get 25% of the time sharing with the B12 and ND. The Big East and the commissioner get to brag about having Gator Bowl but we get them one every 4 year with current contract. We don’t really have the Gator Bowl.

If the Gator Bowl wants ND over a better BEast team, then screw 'em. They won't make any more money than they would with WVU or Louisville there, if they picked ND. They can only sell so many seats, and the hotels won't have any more customers coming to watch the game. A sellout is still a sellout.

I do think we should renegotiate the bowl assignments after the current contract, and forget any association with ND - unless they join the conference for football - and leave any bowl that wants an either-or situation to someone else. We don't need any more of that for our top teams. Maybe at the bottom end of the spectrum, since the conference is so small. But the top BEast teams should be given the same consideration that any other BCS conference gets. We've earned that finally.

It took BC, Miami, and VT leaving for the BEast to grow up. Imagine that!

Wilkie01 Wrote:I just read the RicRod article posted by Jackson. It was a very interesting article. I also read the recent post about the BE realizing bigger is not better. So I am curious about several key drivers that can effect BE football's future:

1. I agree that we need a 9th football member for scheduling, so who is it and do we get them in a full member?- Penn State, yes.

2. Do we split?- Yes

3. Do we need 9, 10 or 12 teams, if we split? Could a new conference get Boston College, Notre Lame and PSU to join?- 10-Notre Dame/Boston College/Southern Miss AND Penn State

4. What do we do about Notre Dame? Southern Miss and Memphis are ranked higher then them by some ranks in football! :ncaabbs::ncaabbs::ncaabbs:- HAHAHAHA!

5. If we split, when do split, 2010 or later? Would Cuse add baseball? What sports would all members have to play? -Beginning of 2010 fall sports. Syracuse WILL add baseball. Football, men's/women's basketball, softball, baseball

6. What would the new all-sports conference be called?- All-East 10

7. The BCS contract ends in 2009, could there be a National playoff? If, yes, how would it effect us?- The playoff won't happen for a LOOOONG time.

Its summer, so this is a good time to talk about this. I have just one request, let's keep this discussion adult and avoid slamming other posters and schools.

Thanks in advance.

Wilkie

I think adding a team with the idea of obtaining a bowl is too risky a proposition in selecting the 9th team for BE. And not sufficient basis for selecting a team. Rather, the reverse should be the guide; that is, what team should be added to BE such that a strengthened BE to the point where BE can negotiation and/or establish its own better bowls? Adding Memphis for Liberty assumes SEC #6 is going to be there for the Liberty for the next 20, 30, or more years? That is a dangerous assumption regarding SEC which will/would surely jump for another and better bowl for its #6 team if it became available. I am not trying to go negative here...but Houston Bowl brought in CUSA when Meineke demanded and received BE's #3 team. BE needs a bowl in Florida and a bowl that is under BE's control and Tampa/St. Pete is perfect. CUSA also needs to establish a Florida Bowl.

Cold weather bowls in open stadiums rather than domed stadiums are struggling. The Big 12 has publicly stated it wants out of Independence Bowl. And, there was an article in Daily Oklahoman that Cotton Bowl in new domed 100,000 seat stadium should establish a second bowl for Big 12....like Big 12 having Fiesta/Insight Bowl agreement. IMO, the bowl situation is too risky and in too much flux to base a BE membership invite. First, go for strong conference as you can build. Second, then (with an enhanced conference) go for enhanced bowls.

16 teams is too many. The WAC proved that point.

SO#1 Wrote:

Krocker Krapp Wrote:The idea of another hybrid league with 9 football members and 3 basketball schools disgusts me. After the split, the football members need to start a league with 9 football schools. I can live with Notre Dame as a 10th member in everything but football if they become more proactive in helping with things like scheduling and bowls. The 7 other basketball schools could then add 2 or 3 members to their own ranks and still be a very good league. I don't want to see any of the basketball schools get hurt if and when a split happens, they played significant roles in making the Big East what it is today.

What is a hybrid league? Having Notre Dame for everything else and not football is not worth it. They should stay in the Big East and continue our arrangement in the post season bowl games and 3 games with the Eastern Conference Football for their present in the northeast. If they don’t want to continue with that is fine too. For me and everybody in this country we can see the value of ND football but basketball and baseball and all their other sports don’t have enough value to me.

My ideal for an amicable separation from the Big East is to have each team from the Eastern Conference play home and home basketball games with 3 of the BE teams every year for the first 5 years after separation. This will minimize any impact to the current 6 years basketball contract. So each conference would still get at least 12 million dollars a year for basketball contract. I imagine the EC would get a little bit more for basketball. If it work out well we should continue the arrangement beyond 5 years. And for other sports that don’t have enough teams will continue to play together under the conference that have the most teams in that sports.

As for Eastern Conference going to 9 members, there is no need to rush at this. This should be for a long term relationship so we should not do this for the sake of scheduling. I don’t want to get stuck with someone like Miami that can’t support themselves and look for another league to meet their financial need. Eventually we will go to 9 but not right off the bat.

The point of splitting, going to nine teams for football, and keeping Notre Dame as a tenth team for all over sports is simply a reflection of reality. Notre Dame, whether we like them or not, is still the 800 pound gorilla of NCAA sports. They carry a lot of weight and prestige on a variety of matters and issues all across the landscape.

I understand the resentment toward them. But they built up most of what they had over the years through their own hard work and, yeah, probably a lot of Irish luck. Keeping them around for everything except football, however, would not hurt us. I clearly said they would have to help us out more with scheduling and bowls as well.

Nine teams is the perfect number for scheduling a football league. Ten teams is a more ideal number for scheduling a basketball league. The only realistic way to get such an arrangement is to keep Notre Dame around for everything but football after the split. And of course all 16 teams should play non-league games no matter what.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:The point of splitting, going to nine teams for football, and keeping Notre Dame as a tenth team for all over sports is simply a reflection of reality. Notre Dame, whether we like them or not, is still the 800 pound gorilla of NCAA sports. They carry a lot of weight and prestige on a variety of matters and issues all across the landscape.

I understand the resentment toward them. But they built up most of what they had over the years through their own hard work and, yeah, probably a lot of Irish luck. Keeping them around for everything except football, however, would not hurt us. I clearly said they would have to help us out more with scheduling and bowls as well.

Nine teams is the perfect number for scheduling a football league. Ten teams is a more ideal number for scheduling a basketball league. The only realistic way to get such an arrangement is to keep Notre Dame around for everything but football after the split. And of course all 16 teams should play non-league games no matter what.

Krocker Krapp

It’s only perfect if ND can lure Penn State to us and play at least 6 games against our league. They still have 6 games against their traditional rivalry games. We will allow them to pick any 6 teams they want to play every year. They can keep all the money they make from NBC. We’ll share basketball contract. We can even start up Eastern Conference TV network. We can capture the entire northeast and a lot of mid-west plus south Florida. Now you have that perfect 10-teams conference. This I can live with.