OptimisticOwl Wrote:If the Big 12 were to drop a couple of schools, why would they even bother to replace them? The only reason to have 12 is to split into divisions and have a Championship game, which is what they are trying to get away from. At 10 teams, they can play a full round robin (9 games ) and have 3 OOC. Their champ would have an automatic BCS berth, the runner-up would be in contention for a second, they would still send 6-8 teams to bowls, and the money would be split 10 ways instead of 12.

Who would they drop? Two of the following group, I would think: Iowa State, Baylor, Kansas, Colorado. I think that UT, A$M, and OU would all want to keep Baylor - easy travel, easy games, good fan base on the road. I think KSt would fight for Kansas the way UVA fought for VTech. That leaves Colorado and ISU looking for homes. The only reasonable choice for UC is the MWC, although I am sure they would try the PAC10 first. ISU would try the Big 10 or the MAC, I guess. If this is true, then a Big12 downsizing doesn't really change the landscape much. Just two more schools bitching about the BCS, two less defending it.

They would never drop Kansas because of Basketball. They travel well and bring in large crowds for conference games. They also get primetime games and an automatic bid in the NCAA. Mizzo would be a better fit in the big ten.

You also have the Arkansas factor. They might very well want to take a run at Arkansas if they were to dump someone. Which would create SEC ripples. I really don't see a north south split. Nebraska and OU have too much history and would never split up. And like the ACC, the weakling in football namely Kansas is the 1000 ton gorilla in the room for basketball. You dump Kansas and your TV contract might actually go down. Iowa State is the geographic anomaly and Baylor is the private school anamoly. I suspect that the CUSA and MWC would take a run at Baylor if they were dumped.

gdayre Wrote:blast, did you know that the Big 10 network premiers on August 30 of this year? It seems to me they got their deal before you guys. The info comes from ESPN. How's your contracts going?

Yes i know, they are scheduled to be aired on satellite. Not sure if it's Dish or what! Their MAIN problem they have is getting the cable networks to air it.

It is a COMPLETE oppisite for "the Mnt", the channel is available in Comcast throughout the MWC region that carries Comcast. They are struggling to get it aired on satellite.

Loboblast-mwc Wrote:

gdayre Wrote:blast, did you know that the Big 10 network premiers on August 30 of this year? It seems to me they got their deal before you guys. The info comes from ESPN. How's your contracts going?

Yes i know, they are scheduled to be aired on satellite. Not sure if it's Dish or what! Their MAIN problem they have is getting the cable networks to air it.

It is a COMPLETE oppisite for "the Mnt", the channel is available in Comcast throughout the MWC region that carries Comcast. They are struggling to get it aired on satellite.

One huge difference is that just about anybody in the country who wants to get the Big 10 Network can get it easily just by getting DirecTv. Now anybody who lives outside of the MWC areas that get the mtn and wants to get the mtn..is Sh$& out of luck.

Big Ten Network = can be very easy for anyone in the states to get.
mtn. = is impossible for anyone who has a satellite or doesn't live in NM, Utah, Wyoming, SD, LV, and parts of Colorado to get.

UTEPDude Wrote:One huge difference is that just about anybody in the country who wants to get the Big 10 Network can get it easily just by getting DirecTv. Now anybody who lives outside of the MWC areas that get the mtn and wants to get the mtn..is Sh$& out of luck.

Big Ten Network = can be very easy for anyone in the states to get.
mtn. = is impossible for anyone who has a satellite or doesn't live in NM, Utah, Wyoming, SD, LV, and parts of Colorado to get.

Looking at this honestly, what's the market on the non-AQ football conferences from the standpoint of national appeal (besides alums and diehard football fans)? There is a national appeal for the Big Ten, SEC and the other BCS conferences.

As you said, the mtn. will not be available outside of the MWC area. MWC games were available through GamePlan on SportsWest and KJZZ (Utah never appeared on SportsWest.)

However, the WAC and CUSA are in the same boat to an extent. Banowsky or someone at ESPN dropped the ball scheduling SMU-Houston at the same time the Cowboys are playing the Eagles. SMU CANNOT be happy about that. Playing on Sunday night is a death wish when going up vs. the NFL or the World Series.

MWC-CHI Wrote:Banowsky or someone at ESPN dropped the ball scheduling SMU-Houston at the same time the Cowboys are playing the Eagles. SMU CANNOT be happy about that. Playing on Sunday night is a death wish when going up vs. the NFL or the World Series.

WoW!

Either that or it totally reeks of desperation when they would settle for something like that. I can understand the Skunkpelt going for something like that but for CUSA to do that looks pretty desperate for exposure!!

Loboblast-mwc Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:Banowsky or someone at ESPN dropped the ball scheduling SMU-Houston at the same time the Cowboys are playing the Eagles. SMU CANNOT be happy about that. Playing on Sunday night is a death wish when going up vs. the NFL or the World Series.

WoW!

Either that or it totally reeks of desperation when they would settle for something like that. I can understand the Skunkpelt going for something like that but for CUSA to do that looks pretty desperate for exposure!!

Cowboys or Cougars? That's a no brainer for me. I'll be watching the Coogs.

ESE84 Wrote:

Loboblast-mwc Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:Banowsky or someone at ESPN dropped the ball scheduling SMU-Houston at the same time the Cowboys are playing the Eagles. SMU CANNOT be happy about that. Playing on Sunday night is a death wish when going up vs. the NFL or the World Series.

WoW!

Either that or it totally reeks of desperation when they would settle for something like that. I can understand the Skunkpelt going for something like that but for CUSA to do that looks pretty desperate for exposure!!

Cowboys or Cougars? That's a no brainer for me. I'll be watching the Coogs.

Well, in Texas, you would be in the minority. When the Dallas Cowboys are on, everything in Texas sports-wise takes a back seat.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:Yes, that is one newpaperman's opinion. And i agree with him about dropping the title game.

But I just cannot envision a meeting where representatives from Texas, OU, A$M, Nebraska, and couple of others are sitting around saying things like " Let's get rid of these bottom-feeding teams that give us an easy "W" every year and replace them with teams with smaller fan bases that might actually beat us on the field".

More likely (though still unlikely), would be those same guys sitting around saying "Let's drop a couple of bottom-feeders, go to a round-robin, split the money 10 ways instead of 12, and still call ourselves the Big12"

I bet they can't get rid of anyone. The conference by-laws probably don't allow them to.

The Big Boys can leave if they want to, and I bet the lawyers would tell them (as lawyers told BYU before the Denver airport meeting) that no more than half of them can leave together if they want to minimize the odds of a successful lawsuit by the others. If 9 or 10 schools leave the Big 12 to start a new conference, the others would sue and argue that what they are really doing is kicking the other 2 or 3 out in violation of the Big 12 by-laws.

The Big 12's new commish, whomever that will be, will have to craft a truce and find a way to keep the Big Boys relatively happy. The best person for that job is probably the OU athletic director, Castiglione, who was formerly the Missouri AD and knows both sides of these arguments.

MWC-CHI Wrote:

ESE84 Wrote:

Loboblast-mwc Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:Banowsky or someone at ESPN dropped the ball scheduling SMU-Houston at the same time the Cowboys are playing the Eagles. SMU CANNOT be happy about that. Playing on Sunday night is a death wish when going up vs. the NFL or the World Series.

WoW!

Either that or it totally reeks of desperation when they would settle for something like that. I can understand the Skunkpelt going for something like that but for CUSA to do that looks pretty desperate for exposure!!

Cowboys or Cougars? That's a no brainer for me. I'll be watching the Coogs.

Well, in Texas, you would be in the minority. When the Dallas Cowboys are on, everything in Texas sports-wise takes a back seat.

He may be the minority, but he is in Texas. As am I, and I will be watching the CUSA game too, only I will be be rooting for SMU. BTW, I am a former Dallas Cowboy season ticket holder.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:

ESE84 Wrote:

Loboblast-mwc Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:Banowsky or someone at ESPN dropped the ball scheduling SMU-Houston at the same time the Cowboys are playing the Eagles. SMU CANNOT be happy about that. Playing on Sunday night is a death wish when going up vs. the NFL or the World Series.

WoW!

Either that or it totally reeks of desperation when they would settle for something like that. I can understand the Skunkpelt going for something like that but for CUSA to do that looks pretty desperate for exposure!!

Cowboys or Cougars? That's a no brainer for me. I'll be watching the Coogs.

Well, in Texas, you would be in the minority. When the Dallas Cowboys are on, everything in Texas sports-wise takes a back seat.

He may be the minority, but he is in Texas. As am I, and I will be watching the CUSA game too, only I will be be rooting for SMU. BTW, I am a former Dallas Cowboy season ticket holder.

Nothing wrong with being in the minority. Just pointing it out.

MWC-CHI Wrote:[Nothing wrong with being in the minority. Just pointing it out.

Maybe not that much of a minority in Houston. It is the Cowboys we are talking about, not the Texans.

I agree with your point on SMU and the Dallas television market. I would not like to see the Owls or the Coogs up against the Texans in the same television slot.

ESE84 Wrote:I agree with your point on SMU and the Dallas television market. I would not like to see the Owls or the Coogs up against the Texans in the same television slot.

THAT is one of the MAIN reasons why we left ESPN ESE84!!!

In basketball, resorting to 12am Eastern tip off times hurt our attendance across this conference.....that's not my opinion those are facts that the MWC had to deal with when negotiations came around to renew our TV contract with ESPN.

Plus on top of those odd start times in basketball they now wanted us to move our football games to Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays. We learned our lesson the hard way. I applaud the MWC for not settling for what ESPN was offering. It is simply not worth the "exposure" of playing on those odd dates/start times.....it did not benefit us at all one bit.

Now with CSTV/VS and our own REGIONAL channel the Mnt. MWC fans can see their favorite teams play on normal days/start times.......with the added bonus of other minor sports that would otherwise never been broadcast on TV like Soccer, woman's volleyball, baseball, TracknField etc.

The Mnt is broadcast on Comcast and Cox across the MWC region and is close to signing on satellite.

The MWC doesn't need ESPN, MWC basketball and football is doing fine without them having to move us to odd dates/start times.

Loboblast-mwc Wrote:

ESE84 Wrote:I agree with your point on SMU and the Dallas television market. I would not like to see the Owls or the Coogs up against the Texans in the same television slot.

THAT is one of the MAIN reasons why we left ESPN ESE84!!!

In basketball, resorting to 12am Eastern tip off times hurt our attendance across this conference.....that's not my opinion those are facts that the MWC had to deal with when negotiations came around to renew our TV contract with ESPN.

The Mnt is broadcast on Comcast and Cox across the MWC region and is close to signing on satellite.

The MWC doesn't need ESPN, MWC basketball and football is doing fine without them having to move us to odd dates/start times.

We can continue to find points of agreements.

Without question, a huge advantage of C-USA membership is no Pacific Time Zone (or Hawaii) starts. Those are just killers, even for Houston's professional teams. I have never understood why TCU would willingly go back to those West Coast start times for non-football.

I don't mind non-Saturday games as long as they are not on Friday. I like the lack of competition, especially on Wednesday, and the exposure. C-USA seems to "get it" here by burdening most of their programs once a season, and passing around the exposure. And that may be because most C-USA programs come from large media markets.

And finally, CSTV, the Mtn., or whatever - it still means being a large enough fan to pony up for premium channels at a premium bundled price. That's not me, and I suspect most other television sets just have a basic package that includes the ESPN family. When Rice is on CSTV, I head for a sports bar rather than pay the year-round premium, so it is hard for me to understand the value of a premium channel until we get ala carte cable pricing.

So we're happy and you're happy. And we'll see how our third-year alignment fares. Just don't come over here telling us how much better you have it.

ESE84 Wrote:Without question, a huge advantage of C-USA membership is no Pacific Time Zone (or Hawaii) starts. Those are just killers, even for Houston's professional teams. I have never understood why TCU would willingly go back to those West Coast start times for non-football.

Actually, a majority of them would be Mountain Time starts.

ESE84 Wrote:I don't mind non-Saturday games as long as they are not on Friday. I like the lack of competition, especially on Wednesday, and the exposure. C-USA seems to "get it" here by burdening most of their programs once a season, and passing around the exposure. And that may be because most C-USA programs come from large media markets.

You just fell into the trap confusing exposure with access. Just because something is on ESPN DOES NOT mean automatic exposure. The problem ALL of the non-AQ conferences have to face is when it comes to battling for TV sets, going up vs. other conferences is only one of the many battles. What about going up vs. the NFL, World Series/Baseball Playoffs? Or go outside of sports and more people will be watching Cold Case or Desperate Housewives on Sunday nights for those not watching NFL Sunday Night Football. Go to weeknights, in October, there will be baseball playoff games to go up against. There's also Boston Legal and other shows on CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX that the public will be more inclined to watch than college football games with non-AQ schools.

ESE84 Wrote:Just don't come over here telling us how much better you have it.

Now don't get me wrong. What you watch or what I watch DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY translate to what the general public wants, IF that's what your implying. As long as we get that, it should be good enough for us personally.

I've been saying this for years. We're all (MWC, WAC, CUSA, MAC, SBC, Army, Navy) are on the same boat.

What the fans of the non-AQ conferences are typing that makes what they want makes it confusing as to where they want their market of their conference to be, regionally or nationally? If you want to market your product regionally, it's doable but it will be a fight. Nationally? Lots of luck.

One obstacle is what is the shadow.

In the MWC, the RM5 are in the shadow of the Denver Broncos. Add CU in the case of AFA, CSU and Wyo. SDSU and UNLV are shadowed by the Chargers, USC and UCLA. TCU is in the shadows of the Cowboys. UNM is not in a Top 50 market IINM. All the Texas schools in the MWC and CUSA are in the shadow of the Cowboys, UT, A & M and OU. (The Cowboys have a bigger presence in Texas and the whole country than you would believe.)

The WAC are not in exactly Top 50 markets. SJSU is in a Top 5 market. However, they are not front page news there. Granted, Boise has made a star for themselves in football. Let's see how they follow up last season.

MAC schools are overshadowed by the Big Ten and NFL franchises like the Bears, Packers, Lions, Browns and Bengals.

The Sun Belt is non-existent by the public.

That's the reality we have to either accept or do something about.

MWC-CHI Wrote:

ESE84 Wrote:I don't mind non-Saturday games as long as they are not on Friday. I like the lack of competition, especially on Wednesday, and the exposure. C-USA seems to "get it" here by burdening most of their programs once a season, and passing around the exposure. And that may be because most C-USA programs come from large media markets.

You just fell into the trap confusing exposure with access. Just because something is on ESPN DOES NOT mean automatic exposure. The problem ALL of the non-AQ conferences have to face is when it comes to battling for TV sets, going up vs. other conferences is only one of the many battles. What about going up vs. the NFL, World Series/Baseball Playoffs? Or go outside of sports and more people will be watching Cold Case or Desperate Housewives on Sunday nights for those not watching NFL Sunday Night Football. Go to weeknights, in October, there will be baseball playoff games to go up against. There's also Boston Legal and other shows on CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX that the public will be more inclined to watch than college football games with non-AQ schools.

I actually did think of that, considering my personal Thursday dilemma of Grey's Anatomy versus whatever. Reality, it would take Rice or UH to take me away from Seattle Grace on Thursday night (with apologies to my friends at SMU, USM, ECU, and the other C-USA programs). So I think that leaves you with the hardcore fans, and the television sets in countless airport bars, restaurants and sports bars. And when I travel nationwide, those sets are usually showing the ESPN family.

Saturday is even more troubling. While the Owls are playing, it really doesn't matter what is on any television channel. I'm watching (or listening) to Rice. So we are again back to the person channel surfing. Will they land on ESPN or a premium channel? I think ESPN.

Is the MWC trying to make a bigger splash regionally with the Mtn.? Good luck with that; you know we are paying attention to the outcome (but not watching the games). C-USA and the WAC will keep slugging away with the national exposure route.

But it does bring an interesting question. Say come December, USM, BYU and Hawaii have all completed sparkling 1-loss seasons while parity strikes the Big 12 South and the Big 12 champion is 10-3. Who gets the BCS bowl slot? Since I am biased, I will say USM. But the reason will be because the nation saw USM more often on ESPN and CSTV, and they saw them last in the nationally televised C-USA championship game.

And that's the main reason I like our television and format. Yes, we are taking a huge risk with that championship game. But the risk is worth it.

ESE84 Wrote:But it does bring an interesting question. Say come December, USM, BYU and Hawaii have all completed sparkling 1-loss seasons while parity strikes the Big 12 South and the Big 12 champion is 10-3. Who gets the BCS bowl slot? Since I am biased, I will say USM. But the reason will be because the nation saw USM more often on ESPN and CSTV, and they saw them last in the nationally televised C-USA championship game.

And that's the main reason I like our television and format. Yes, we are taking a huge risk with that championship game. But the risk is worth it.

By your analogy, it hasn't cause a problem for us. The MWC finished the season with 2 ranked teams in football. In basketball, we had 2 ranked teams at one time during the season. How could that be with the majority of media/voters in the East and CUSA fans believing that just because we play on CSTV/VS and the Mnt. It somehow greatly penalizes MWC teams.

Also, using your scenario, BYU (using 06 OOC sched. for the teams you mentioned) would probably the highest ranked team since their SOS would probably be higher by playing in the MWC.

ESE84 Wrote:

MWC-CHI Wrote:

ESE84 Wrote:I don't mind non-Saturday games as long as they are not on Friday. I like the lack of competition, especially on Wednesday, and the exposure. C-USA seems to "get it" here by burdening most of their programs once a season, and passing around the exposure. And that may be because most C-USA programs come from large media markets.

You just fell into the trap confusing exposure with access. Just because something is on ESPN DOES NOT mean automatic exposure. The problem ALL of the non-AQ conferences have to face is when it comes to battling for TV sets, going up vs. other conferences is only one of the many battles. What about going up vs. the NFL, World Series/Baseball Playoffs? Or go outside of sports and more people will be watching Cold Case or Desperate Housewives on Sunday nights for those not watching NFL Sunday Night Football. Go to weeknights, in October, there will be baseball playoff games to go up against. There's also Boston Legal and other shows on CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX that the public will be more inclined to watch than college football games with non-AQ schools.

I actually did think of that, considering my personal Thursday dilemma of Grey's Anatomy versus whatever. Reality, it would take Rice or UH to take me away from Seattle Grace on Thursday night (with apologies to my friends at SMU, USM, ECU, and the other C-USA programs). So I think that leaves you with the hardcore fans, and the television sets in countless airport bars, restaurants and sports bars. And when I travel nationwide, those sets are usually showing the ESPN family.

Saturday is even more troubling. While the Owls are playing, it really doesn't matter what is on any television channel. I'm watching (or listening) to Rice. So we are again back to the person channel surfing. Will they land on ESPN or a premium channel? I think ESPN.

Is the MWC trying to make a bigger splash regionally with the Mtn.? Good luck with that; you know we are paying attention to the outcome (but not watching the games). C-USA and the WAC will keep slugging away with the national exposure route.

But it does bring an interesting question. Say come December, USM, BYU and Hawaii have all completed sparkling 1-loss seasons while parity strikes the Big 12 South and the Big 12 champion is 10-3. Who gets the BCS bowl slot? Since I am biased, I will say USM. But the reason will be because the nation saw USM more often on ESPN and CSTV, and they saw them last in the nationally televised C-USA championship game.

And that's the main reason I like our television and format. Yes, we are taking a huge risk with that championship game. But the risk is worth it.

Unfortunately, satellite channels, TV's at establishments do not reflect in the ratings.

Those are very interesting questions I will address.

I live in the Chicago area. However, this mtn. network is a disaster or at least close unless it can get on DirecTV. And, if/when it does, who will watch which brings me back to the confusing exposure and access. Or in other words, confusing activity with accomplishment. MWC presidents have dropped the ball a lot. If the Pac-10 can have a DRASTIC change of heart and bring in Utah and Hawaii per se, then as a Utah fan, it would be a help for the program IMVOHO. I do want what's best for Utah, the MWC and all non-AQ conferences and even if Utah does leave for the Pac-10 or Big XII, my stance will not change.

To answer your next question, that will rely on schedule and not Q rating, TV ratings or whatever. Plus, computer ratings play a role and how much TV time a school gets plays no role in that process whatsoever. Based on the schedules, USM would have an advantage of the 3 schools you mentioned. I know Hawaii would be low man on the totem pole with 2 I-AA schools on their schedule.

To add, this time zone thing leaves a few questions.

What about UTEP? They are in the same time zone as 2/3 of the MWC schools. (Mountain Time Zone) Would they not be in the same quandry?

What about the Pac-10 and USC in particular? They play late games, yet USC has no trouble being nationally known?

ESE84 Wrote:Say come December, USM, BYU and Hawaii have all completed sparkling 1-loss seasons while parity strikes the Big 12 South and the Big 12 champion is 10-3. Who gets the BCS bowl slot? Since I am biased, I will say USM. But the reason will be because the nation saw USM more often on ESPN and CSTV, and they saw them last in the nationally televised C-USA championship game.

Hawai'i is also getting a lot of TV exposure this year, they will have four of their last six games on ESPN, including their showdown with Boise State the day after Thanksgiving. Boise State has five games on ESPN.