False cries of racism won't change the truth, and Duke admissions interviewing Shelden is not an "investigation" if they only get one biased side of the story and completely ignore the girl claiming to get raped, especially since no accused rapist ever admits to the crime. Interesting that Shelden and his coach still won't comment other than Shelden saying "things got out of hand" and the coach having to come in to break things up. Wonder if Duke or K is stupid enough to think the girl won't sue for damages once Shelden drops out and goes pro.
The fact that Shelden Williams was kicked off
permanently from his high school team means that he
can't be a member of Duke's basketball team. Duke
obviously has far higher standards for players seeking
to represent the university on a full athletic
scholarship than a high school team does for whether a
player that is already on the team should remain on
it. Shelden still needs to explain what happened to
Duke admissions and then hope they admit him anyway.
The fact is, anyone accused of rape then suspended
from school for at least 10 days and kicked off his
team permanently by the coach who walked in on a gang
bang which may or may not have been consensual ain't
getting in. His chances would be even much lower than
if he was a regular student applicant if that's even
possible because this is such a high profile case that
has gotten national press. A female freshman was
sexually assaulted at Duke just two days ago and the
campus is fearful and angry, there's no way Duke is
going to bring in an accused rapist and admitted gang
banger who would have been the most high profile
incoming student even before the incident.
Since Shelden is the best player in perhaps the best
recruiting class ever, and because it is Duke, the
harassment from every opposing fan and articles and
taunts about Duke throwing out all standards to win at
all costs would be relentless throughout his Duke
career and beyond, this would never be forgotten.
Duke would be the absolute worst place for him on
earth because of the incident when the Cameron Crazies
threw condoms and over 1000 panties at terp Herman
Veal who was accused of but never charged with sexual
abuse, while holding up a sign that read "HEY, HERM,
DID YOU SEND HER FLOWERS?" Aside from the fact that
there have been transfers and unhappiness each of the
last two times that Duke recruited 3 big players for 2
positions, the opposing fans and national media and
disapproval even from Duke fans and at Duke would make
for all kinds of distractions that Duke and Shelden
don't need. Shelden was thinking of going pro out of
HS, and would be even more motivated to escape the
abuse and drop out for the NBA if he came to Duke,
which would cause additional distractions. Both
Shelden and Duke would be much better served if he
went to a less high profile program or the NBA or
NBADL.
For those that think Shelden is innocent or the woman
is lying or that there will be no charges, she still
claims she was gang raped, the police have an
obligation to protect citizens from rapists no matter
what victims want and already said they would either
charge themselves or let a grand jury decide, and
Shelden himself says that things got out of hand:
"Short of the victim completely changing her story,
we’ll be at a point this week to make that decision on
whether we’ll file charges ourselves or send it to a
grand jury to decide," Sherry Mercurio, a spokesperson
for the Columbus police department told the Daily
Oklahoman on Tuesday."
... "We were in our room, getting ready to go to bed,
and someone came in, and things got out of hand, and
then Coach came in and broke it up," Williams told the
Chronicle.
<a href="http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/duke/39-189237.html" target="_blank">http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/duke/39-189237.html</a>
A 19-year-old Ohio woman who accused three Midwest
City basketball players of rape told a Columbus
television station Wednesday that she won't ask
prosecutors to pursue charges.
But the woman's decision doesn't rule out the
possibility of charges being filed. Police could still
turn the evidence over to a grand jury for
consideration...
..."Prosecuted or not, they know exactly what they
did, and they have to live with that," she told the
television station.
<a href="http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=816527&pic=none&TP=gethighschool" target="_blank">http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=816527&pic=none&TP=gethighschool</a>
The victim decided to focus on school once the court
process was explained to her. She may have decided
not to waste her time since there may not be enough
evidence, and since only Shelden out of the 5 isn't a
minor, most of them might have escaped harsh
punishment anyway. This is not an indication that the
5 aren't guilty, obviously 5 huge basketball players
would have no problems whatsoever restraining without
bruising and muffling any sounds while raping a girl
and leaving zero evidence it wasn't consensual. For
those that assume she made a false accusation, why on
earth would she lie and commit a felony and want to
ruin the lives of 5 people she just met and put
herself through hell for no reason?
This never seems to happen to famous or rich NBA
athletes or celebrities who get lots of money hungry
groupies, except for Mike Tyson and Duke alum William
Kennedy Smith, who wasn't famous at the time. This
incident is another embarassment along with the Duke
football player who committed armed robbery on someone
in a wheelchair shortly after coach Franks was hired.
It's really not a good sign when a university like
Duke tops even the NBA and every other pro league in
stomach turning incidents involving its athletes, and
it needs to stop.
This is obviously much more than a basketball issue,
the reputation of the university and basketball
program is thousands of times more important than
whether one player is at Duke for a year or two. The
reputation of Duke is so much more important in this
case that the opinions of those not affiliated with
the university are really not important. Would
bandwagon fans really want Shelden at Duke along with
all the troubles and distractions if he wasn't even a
top 1000 recruit or if he was just a normal student?
Of course not, that makes no sense, Shelden to Duke
would be even worse and makes no sense to intelligent
people who care about more than winning.
IP: Logged
Duke Alum
Recruit
Posts: 8
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 02-01-2002 09:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is much worse than Billy Edelin's situation at
Syracuse, where he was accused of rape while he
claimed it was consensual during the summer before he
was expected to start as a freshman this season, no
charges were filed, he didn't break any rules, was
never suspended or kicked off
of any team or subjected to any disciplinary action,
yet Syracuse dismissed him anyway to protect its
students and reputation. Many of the same
hypocritical Duke fans who bleat about how Shelden is
innocent until proven guilty supported and admired the
Syracuse decision on Edelin and sympathized only with
the alleged victim.
<a href="http://www.icasa.org/newsDetail.asp?id=186" target="_blank">http://www.icasa.org/newsDetail.asp?id=186</a>
Cincinnati dismissed two recruits recently after
arrests for far less serious charges, one for
joyriding and the other was Jerome Harper a first team
allamerican who had his charges dropped because he was
defending himself:
"Athletic Director Bob Goin said in a release that
UC's “best wishes are with this young man. However,
Coach (Bob) Huggins felt this action is needed for the
integrity of our basketball program.”
Huggins said the release covered what he wanted to say
about Harper. “You need to do the right things,” he
said."
<a href="http://enquirer.com/bearcats/2000/03/01/uc_uc_pulls_offer_to.html" target="_blank">http://enquirer.com/bearcats/2000/03/01/uc_uc_pulls_offer_to.html</a>
"Although Harper was considered one of the nation's
best prep prospects, recruiting analyst Bob Gibbons
said it was unlikely that Harper would get another
Division I scholarship offer.
"For Cincinnati to drop Harper gives me reason to
think no other college will consider taking him,"
Gibbons said. "Cincinnati dropped Harper without
hesitation, and Cincinnati is known as one of the more
liberal schools in terms of admission." "
<a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/recruiting/news/2000/03/01/harper_folo_ap/" target="_blank">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/recruiting/news/2000/03/01/harper_folo_ap/[/ URL]
"UC won't take Harper even after charges dismissed"
[URL=http://http://enquirer.com/bearcats/2000/03/03/uc_uc_wont_take_harper.html]http://enquirer.com/bearcats/2000/03/03/uc_uc_wont_take_harper.html</a>
Like Syracuse, Cincinnati's primary goal is to protect
the good name and integrity of their university and
basketball program, a concept most bandwagon Duke fans
couldn't care less about.
It's very disappointing that K is refusing to comment
on this until everything is completely settled which
could take months or years. Quin Snyder waited months
to reveal Missouri's decision to drop top 5 recruit
Robert Whaley, while hurting the reputation of the
university and program and perhaps trying to deceive
the jury into thinking that Whaley could have a bright
future in basketball if he was acquitted of raping a
13 year old.
<a href="http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/big12new.pat,sports/3accb7e6.601,.html" target="_blank">http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/big12new.pat,sports/3accb7e6.601,.html</a>
Duke can't be involved in that kind of delay or
deception, and should be concerned with truth,
justice, and preserving its reputation and interests
with swift action.
"Although he would not discuss the admission status of
any applicant in particular, Christoph Guttentag,
director of undergraduate admissions, said Friday that
any allegations of illegal conduct are taken seriously
but that they are weighed with other factors. Past
disciplinary action has led to the denial of admission
to otherwise qualified students, he said, but not
always.
"I don't like hypotheticals, because then you get to
the question of someone who also has straight As and
great boards," Guttentag said. "If any applicant were
subject to legal action, it's something that we would
take into account. But we make our decisions based on
the information we have, the context as best as we can
understand it, and ultimately what's in the best
interests of the University."
<a href="http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/story.php?article_id=24853" target="_blank">http://www.chronicle.duke.edu/story.php?article_id=24853</a>
It's clear what's in the best interests of Duke
University, Shelden, and Duke basketball, it's been
clear ever since the story broke and will continue to
be no matter what develops, any delay in pulling
Shelden's scholarships can only be harmful to Duke,
Shelden, and justice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 51 | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged
Blue Devil
Nobody
Member # 540
posted April 10, 2002 08:43 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stanford is much better than Duke and beats it in every sport and academic category while winning the Sears Cup for most athletic success every year, and this post on thedevilsden illustrates how high their academic, moral, and athletic standards are for student athletes:
"TheDude
Starter
Member # 828
posted February 28, 2002 08:13 PM
Actually, I do know one thing: my friend in high school was getting recruited by Stanford to play football for them, and he was accepted (he had a 1400 and a 4.0 btw) but they rescinded his admission because of a trivial fight between him and a teammate that got him suspended. It was messed up, and he wanted to go to Cal anyways, but at least they have standards, unlike other schools who'll take kids straight from jail if they can ball."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
K is said to be pressuring Duke admissions and administrators into getting Shelden in and upsetting a lot of people. Instead of sticking up for accused rapists and intellectually challenged recruits, maybe he should actually recruit replacements earlier especially at center and PG, so that they can add depth and before they are needed as true freshman starters.
K may not care whether Shelden is a rapist since the coaches told him they support him 100% and insiders say they still want him even though they couldn't possibly know what happened, and his mentor Bob Knight once told Connie Chung during an interview, "If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it". K should not pressure Duke admissions like with Avery and Dockery, since even Shelden admitted things got out of hand and the coach had to come in and break it up. Shelden shouldn't be given any special preference over any other applicant when deciding whether to admit someone who may be a gang rapist and pose a serious risk to a campus that has had to deal with increasingly frequent incidents of crime and rape. In fact, as a full scholarship applicant, he should be held to much higher standards of character just as AB Duke scholars need flawless academic and moral qualifications. Since he is a basketball recruit who will be the most high profile representative of Duke's student body and entire institution and have the most to gain from going to Duke, he must be held to the highest standards of athletic, academic, and moral qualifications. Based only on the facts, that he was accused of rape, suspended, and kicked off his team permanently, it's obvious Shelden isn't close to qualified to represent Duke.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 51 | Registered: Apr 2002 | IP: Logged
Blue Devil
Nobody
Member # 540
posted April 10, 2002 08:44 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a 92% chance a gang rape occurred? Some people
need to be educated about rape statistics. According
to US Department of Justice and FBI:
"REPORTING RATES:
In 1996, only 31% of rapes and sexual assaults were
reported to law enforcement officials--less than one
in every three.
2% of rapes are falsely reported; 8% of reported rapes
are considered "unfounded." This is similar to rates
for other felony crimes."
<a href="http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:IBxnVNSuw3cC:www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~gwick/lies.html+%222%25+of+rapes+are+falsely+reported%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8" target="_blank">http://216.239.51.100/search?q=ca che:IBxnVNSuw3cC:www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~gwick/lies.html+%222%25+of+rapes+are+falsely+reported%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8</a>
<a href="http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~gwick/lies.html" target="_blank">http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~gwick/lies.html</a>
"Survivors fear that
they will not be believed, that reporting will be futile,
and that
they will be revictimized by the system.
Do rape victims have something to fear from the
system?
Unfortunately, the figures tend to bear out their
concern. From the
perspective of a rape survivor, there is less than a
2% chance that
the attacker will be arrested, convicted, and
sentenced to serve
time behind bars. The "two percent response" of the
system works
out as follows. Applying our figures to conservative
estimates of
the number of rapes nationwide, we conclude that a
woman has:
* A 2.5% chance of seeing her attacker
convicted, and;
* A 1.9% chance of seeing her attacker
incarcerated.(17)"
<a href="http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:2ycM0faeXh8C:www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/WomensStudies/GenderIssues/Violence%2BWomen/ResponsetoRape/chapter2-numbers+what+percentage+of+rape" target="_blank">http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:2ycM0faeXh8C:www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/WomensStudies/GenderIssues/Violence%2BWomen/ResponsetoRape/chapter2-numbers+what+percentage+of+rape</a> +complaints+result+in+charges&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
<a href="http://www.mith2.umd.edu/WomensStudies/GenderIssues/Violence+Women/ResponsetoRape/chapter2-numbers" target="_blank">http://www.mith2.umd.edu/WomensStudies/GenderIssues/Violence+Women/Responset oRape/chapter2-numbers</a>
So according to the FBI, there is a 92% chance that a
rape charge is not unfounded. Obviously given the
pitiful chances of conviction or incarceration it
makes all the sense in the world not to go forward
with the case from the victims point of view
especially since a trial has been described as like
being raped again, even moreso when considering that
only Shelden of the 5 is not a minor, and the other 4
may have escaped harsh punishment regardless of the
outcome.
Some think only those found guilty in court should be
denied admission, meaning Robert Whaley, who got off
after claiming a 13 year old girl climbed on top of
him while he was sleeping and raped him, should be at
Duke or Missouri or any other college even though none
took him. Should Duke football hire OJ Simpson as the
running backs coach, since it obviously needs more help
than Duke basketball? That's obviously absurd since
Duke has very high standards of morality for all
applicants.
Everyone agrees that if Shelden raped the girl he
shouldn't be at Duke, but how can we possibly ever
know if he did or didn't? FBI says 92% chance a rape
happened. The probability of gang rape as opposed to
a consensual gang bang is probably even higher.
Since it's not possible to ever know if Shelden is a
rapist, Duke can't take the huge risk and admit him to
campus, that's irresponsible and nonsensical. And
there is 100% chance that Duke would be slammed for
admitting him by fans, media, and Duke's own students,
and that Shelden would be harassed on and off campus,
moreso at Duke than anywhere else on earth. Bottom
line is Shelden was suspended weeks from school,
kicked off his team permanently, and accused of rape,
the first two things is more than enough to reject him
or any applicant and the third makes it a no brainer.
This is especially the case for someone seeking a full
scholarship to be Duke's most high profile
representative, they must have flawless athletic,
academic, and especially moral qualifications, Duke
has taken good kids in the past and should hever
compromise their standards. It's obviously not in the
best interests of Duke or Shelden to admit him, and
that's a huge understatement, in fact that would be the
worst possible thing for Shelden and Duke.
<small>[ July 23, 2002, 02:19 AM: Message edited by: BlueDevil ]</small>
/
Shelden dropped; 92-98% of rape reports real, 2% convicted
