Quote:Heres your two choices in general ( there are some others but lets be simple here shall we?)

1. buy american and prices stay high because of unions, insurance and various other items that i have neither the time nor the patience to get into. eventually maybe after 4 or 5 years of everyone thats everyone buying american things might come down.

2. Ship it off to a thrid world country no health care requirements, no unions, can pay em pennies on the dollar and come sell it for more profit at a cheaper price.

Hmmm, then why do I have memories of the 60's, 70's and early 80's as being the very best times of my life. I remember the very best cars I had back then. 1964 Olds F-85 that was indestructable and had a 330 cubic inch engien in it, 1969 Pointic Lemans--sharp car with lots of power that had a 350, 1971 Pontic Grand Prix with a 350 in it--also lots of room and lots of power. Then came my first Toyota (corolla) in 1988. The best consumer stereo gear was available back then and a lot of it was made in the U.S. Sansui was made in Japan but was great gear. Some U.S. made tape decks were 500 and 600 dollars in the 70's, but they were great pieces of gear. Somehow I managed to afford all those expensive pieces of gear that were well made and made either in the states of Japan. They weren't cheap pieces of crap made in China. I'd rather have the 60's through the early 80's to tell you the truth. One income (dad's) was enough to sustain the family.

blame the oil crisis and inflation.

if you get down to the nitty gritty thats a damn good place to start looking.

There are certainly well intended people who are here and have been here for a long time for the right reasons, but illegally. They've paid some taxes, and they are "americans" (small a). I support some sort of buy-in amnesty... but with a BIG caveat. They have broken the law... a BIG one,... and they are likely to support others in breaking the same law if given the opportunity to influence legislation,... therefore, just like some Americans who are convicted of serious crimes, their long term punishment for being here illegally is giving up the right to vote. If they don't like that, they can leave the country for a period of not less than a year, and apply through the proper channels to become a citizen with the right to vote.

Tulsaman Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:

Tulsaman Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:There is only 1 meaningful solution and that is to put up a fence along ALL of the border.

haven't i said what happens when that occurs?

China tried it. took em a long time to recover after the stagnation it caused. and note if it wasn't for immigration legal or otherwise the population of the US would be declineing.

Sure it's declining, but let's be honest. It's because of our abortion sins. But, multinational corporations and international businessmen elites (much like our president) want to exploit the situation for their own personal interest. This has given them a wonderful reason to important all kinds of 3rd world labor and drive wages down. I mean, after all, the Mexicans have their own house don't they? I mean even if it was built in 1920 and they have 10 people living in it. Bush's friends are also burning the other end of the candle trying to export as many jobs to the 3rd world as they can. The result is the disentegration of the middle class. Was this uncontrolled invasion of immigrants and the exporting of jobs to the 3rd world suppossed to wreck the middle class in America? When will you take the class about that Tulsaman?

i'm an international business major i get taught to ship things off to where they are cheaper so you "middle Class" people can get em on the cheap.

Heres your two choices in general ( there are some others but lets be simple here shall we?)

1. buy american and prices stay high because of unions, insurance and various other items that i have neither the time nor the patience to get into. eventually maybe after 4 or 5 years of everyone thats everyone buying american things might come down.

2. Ship it off to a thrid world country no health care requirements, no unions, can pay em pennies on the dollar and come sell it for more profit at a cheaper price.

And remember EZ that a mature Industrialized Economy (Much like the USif not exactly like) is NOT manufacter driven its SERVICE DRIVEN, ask any business person with any form of education and they'll say the exact same thing only developing nations need lots and lots of industry because a mature economy can outsource it to a neighboor country on the cheap.

We middle-class people will be lucky if we can afford the cheaper stuff because the new jobs pay much less than the ones that were shipped overseas. At best it's a wash and in the process, tax revenues probably decrease. And don't try to sell the point that US workers are better off as a result. The world economy might be the most efficient that way, but it's the people in the foreign countries who get the jobs, and the big business owners that profit from it. The middle-class is worse off. Also, moving jobs overseas is at least legal. Hiring illegal immigrants so you can save money is unpatriotic and very selfish besides being illegal. And you can't compare the legal immigration that happened in the past with allowing floods of illegals now.

IMHO, because the Fed Govt is unwilling to deport the 12 million illegal aliens "living in the shadows", we need to issue specific Green Cards for them containing the stipulation that they cannot apply for US Citzenship until after 5 years of working/residing in this country. That means that they will have no voting rights and limited access to health care in this country. If any illegal gets caught voting in the US then he/she will be shipped back to their country of origen and will never be allowed to return ever. I believe that my position is palatable to all sides because Big Businesses will be allowed to keep their cheap labor and the US Citizenery is reassured that no one is going to get immediate benefits for breaking out laws. Also, it allows some breathing room to deal with some countries that are encouraging their citizenery to break our laws by crossing our borders illegally because their own governmemts cannot deal with their own domestic issues. The US will come off as a compassionate nation if it does this measure both to the illegal aliens and to its own citizens. The question is though, does our own government resist temptation to exploit these people for sheer politcal/economic power and gain.

Because I reside in a Border State, I also favor a two-layered fence across our Southern Border. The country which we shared a border with, Mexico, protects its Southern Borders very viligently in order to keep illegal aliens out. The US needs to do the same thing.

RC Horn Wrote:IMHO, because the Fed Govt is unwilling to deport the 12 million illegal aliens "living in the shadows", we need to issue specific Green Cards for them containing the stipulation that they cannot apply for US Citzenship until after 5 years of working/residing in this country. That means that they will have no voting rights and limited access to health care in this country. If any illegal gets caught voting in the US then he/she will be shipped back to their country of origen and will never be allowed to return ever. I believe that my position is palatable to all sides because Big Businesses will be allowed to keep their cheap labor and the US Citizenery is reassured that no one is going to get immediate benefits for breaking out laws. Also, it allows some breathing room to deal with some countries that are encouraging their citizenery to break our laws by crossing our borders illegally because their own governmemts cannot deal with their own domestic issues. The US will come off as a compassionate nation if it does this measure both to the illegal aliens and to its own citizens. The question is though, does our own government resist temptation to exploit these people for sheer politcal/economic power and gain.

Because I reside in a Border State, I also favor a two-layered fence across our Southern Border. The country which we shared a border with, Mexico, protects its Southern Borders very viligently in order to keep illegal aliens out. The US needs to do the same thing.

They don't have the right to vote now anyway. Nor do green card holders.

They are also no longer entitled to Medicaid, as of the beginning of this past fiscal year.

Of course, there's no real cost savings in such a withholding. The problem with limiting access to health care is that it drives up costs for everyone else. Eventually, they will need to get emergency room care for illnesses and injuries, and the system eats those costs. Its the whole thing about a diabetic who has no insurance, never goes to see a doctor, and then 5 years later has to have a $300,000 foot amputation. Eventually, we all pay anyway in the forms of our premiums going up.

RC Horn Wrote:IMHO, because the Fed Govt is unwilling to deport the 12 million illegal aliens "living in the shadows", we need to issue specific Green Cards for them containing the stipulation that they cannot apply for US Citzenship until after 5 years of working/residing in this country. That means that they will have no voting rights and limited access to health care in this country. If any illegal gets caught voting in the US then he/she will be shipped back to their country of origen and will never be allowed to return ever. I believe that my position is palatable to all sides because Big Businesses will be allowed to keep their cheap labor and the US Citizenery is reassured that no one is going to get immediate benefits for breaking out laws. Also, it allows some breathing room to deal with some countries that are encouraging their citizenery to break our laws by crossing our borders illegally because their own governmemts cannot deal with their own domestic issues. The US will come off as a compassionate nation if it does this measure both to the illegal aliens and to its own citizens. The question is though, does our own government resist temptation to exploit these people for sheer politcal/economic power and gain.

Because I reside in a Border State, I also favor a two-layered fence across our Southern Border. The country which we shared a border with, Mexico, protects its Southern Borders very viligently in order to keep illegal aliens out. The US needs to do the same thing.

Big business gives lots of money for political campaigns. In return, the government does nothing to prevent big business from allowing lots of illegal immigration and hiring the workers so they can increase profits. Or at least the threat of cheap labor forces locals to settle for low wages. Just one more reason we need to seriously cut down on campaign financing. Most of it's a waste anyway.

RC Horn Wrote:IMHO, because the Fed Govt is unwilling to deport the 12 million illegal aliens "living in the shadows", we need to issue specific Green Cards for them containing the stipulation that they cannot apply for US Citzenship until after 5 years of working/residing in this country. That means that they will have no voting rights and limited access to health care in this country. If any illegal gets caught voting in the US then he/she will be shipped back to their country of origen and will never be allowed to return ever. I believe that my position is palatable to all sides because Big Businesses will be allowed to keep their cheap labor and the US Citizenery is reassured that no one is going to get immediate benefits for breaking out laws. Also, it allows some breathing room to deal with some countries that are encouraging their citizenery to break our laws by crossing our borders illegally because their own governmemts cannot deal with their own domestic issues. The US will come off as a compassionate nation if it does this measure both to the illegal aliens and to its own citizens. The question is though, does our own government resist temptation to exploit these people for sheer politcal/economic power and gain.

Because I reside in a Border State, I also favor a two-layered fence across our Southern Border. The country which we shared a border with, Mexico, protects its Southern Borders very viligently in order to keep illegal aliens out. The US needs to do the same thing.

I think 80% of the American people want the fence first. Why do you think so many of the congressman and senators (and Bush) don't want the fence? They don't want the flood and invasion to stop? They want the 100 million Mexicans in 20 years or less? I think they don't want to have to do it legislatively but they would rather it be a free for all at our border like it is now. That seems to be what they want which IMHO is crazy!

GGniner Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:You mean I should have stopped at high school and then get a job at the Home Depot?

are you a woman?

just pointing out reason's why birth rates are declining, when people got married right out of hs and started working they tend to have more kids. a female friend of mine, just interviewed(for attorney job) and the woman that interviewed her told her straight up they had a 'no baby policy', then went to "well you can have 1 baby after being here for 5 years". I can understand why they wouldn't want to hire a woman that could have babies soon from business perspective, but its a sign of the times.

At least they told her ahead of time! It would have been quite scary if I got married out of high school. Yikes!