Yep, after 3 or 4 decades in Ft. Worth and some of the best paying jobs in Ft. Worth, Motorola is closing the plant at the end of next year. All employees have already been given their pink slips. They are being worked harder and expected to work more hours for the same pay. Most of the jobs (building cell phone infrastructure) will be shipping off to Mexico, and some of the jobs will remain in McCallen (right next to Mexico) if employees are willing to move there. I doubt if there will be many takers.

This is a very disturbing trend, and something needs to be done about it. I know all the business people on this board will say this is wonderful and come up with all the bogus reasons this is so good for the U.S. economy. But the truth is that this just flat sucks and these aren't the peons that are getting the pink slips. These are the 75, 85 and 95K/year engineers that are getting the pink slips. These are good technicians jobs and good assembly jobs going offshore where the products will be made for 1/10th of the cost, but sold in America for half price. This is corporate greed plain and simple and this trend is happening with almost every company in America. I'll tell you this is just not sustainable. Life for the middle class is going bye bye forever. America is becoming a nation of elites and the poor--just like Mexico. The elites are the corporate fat cats in cooperation with the fat cats in the U.S. congress. It's a winning combination that can't be beat, and it doesn't seem to matter if the republicans or democrats are in control. But I suspect the republicans are doing more damage.

Endzone2 Wrote:Yep, after 3 or 4 decades in Ft. Worth and some of the best paying jobs in Ft. Worth, Motorola is closing the plant at the end of next year. All employees have already been given their pink slips. They are being worked harder and expected to work more hours for the same pay. Most of the jobs (building cell phone infrastructure) will be shipping off to Mexico, and some of the jobs will remain in McCallen (right next to Mexico) if employees are willing to move there. I doubt if there will be many takers.

This is a very disturbing trend, and something needs to be done about it.

When Motorola moved semiconductor plants off-shore, many Phoenix area facilities were bought out or purchased by small start-up companies. Few jobs were lost, and in fact these small companies were willing to pursue innovation and markets that Motorola declined. In other words, the economy improved.

I don't find the trend disturbing at all. It's the economic churn, and while disappointing to someone caught in it, it's been around for a long time. Would you prefer that we still have gaslighters roaming the streets at dusk? That elevator operators still be on the payroll? That mills in New England still be operating, producing textiles that are too expensive, yet keeping resources from innovative companies in the fields of medical equipment, photonics, IT, robotics, etc.?

If Mexicans can do the required job, and do it for less pay, then more power to them. Shouldn't they get rewarded for putting themselves in that position? Where's the incentive to improve if you deny them that?

Corporate greed? The CEO of Motorola has a duty to his shareholders to make their investment worth as much as he can make it. I see nothing wrong here at all.

DrTorch Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:Yep, after 3 or 4 decades in Ft. Worth and some of the best paying jobs in Ft. Worth, Motorola is closing the plant at the end of next year. All employees have already been given their pink slips. They are being worked harder and expected to work more hours for the same pay. Most of the jobs (building cell phone infrastructure) will be shipping off to Mexico, and some of the jobs will remain in McCallen (right next to Mexico) if employees are willing to move there. I doubt if there will be many takers.

This is a very disturbing trend, and something needs to be done about it.

When Motorola moved semiconductor plants off-shore, many Phoenix area facilities were bought out or purchased by small start-up companies. Few jobs were lost, and in fact these small companies were willing to pursue innovation and markets that Motorola declined. In other words, the economy improved.

I don't find the trend disturbing at all. It's the economic churn, and while disappointing to someone caught in it, it's been around for a long time. Would you prefer that we still have gaslighters roaming the streets at dusk? That elevator operators still be on the payroll? That mills in New England still be operating, producing textiles that are too expensive, yet keeping resources from innovative companies in the fields of medical equipment, photonics, IT, robotics, etc.?

If Mexicans can do the required job, and do it for less pay, then more power to them. Shouldn't they get rewarded for putting themselves in that position? Where's the incentive to improve if you deny them that?

I don't think this is a matter of technological advancement Dr. Torch. Of course I would never say we should keep current technology strictly so people can have their jobs. I was a radio officer on U.S. merchant ships for 10 years. We didn't need CW (Morse) operators anymore when the satellite and HF telex stations came up around 1980. Eventually the telecommunications act of 1996 have a provision in it that merchant ship operators didn't need to carry radio operators anymore. Some still kept them due to the large volume of military message traffic and also to do emergency repairs.

But this is a completely different matter. There has been no huge advancement in cell phone infrstructure that can only be done in Mexico. I fail to see what point you are making in regards to people losing their jobs. This trend is to continue making THE SAME product only making it cheaper (much cheaper by Mexican wages) and then bringing it back into the U.S. for sale. The only people that win are the business people and people at the top of companies--and retired folks sitting on their 20,000 share of stock. The middle class working man loses. Again this has nothing to do with advancement of technology. It is strictly economics. The feds are going to start allowing all Mexican trucking companies to come right through our borders and operate in the U.S. Why not have filipino doctors and indonesian airline pilots come do those jobs in America. Wal Mart has effectively brought millions of Chinese labor wages to America and made U.S. companies compete against those wages--IN AMERICA. Do you realize that during this present war 50% of the military gear taken to the Persian Gulf was done for foreign merchant ships? The reason is because 97% of all cargoes entering and leaving the U.S. are done on foreign ships, and the U.S. does not maintain a very strong merchant fleet anymore. So many big name companies like American President Lines and Sea Land have been bought out and operated by foriegners. The U.S. puts itself in a vulnerable position this way. Your average Joe just doesn't realize this.

In the near future we will not be able to have completely unrestricted free trade and just pretend that the whole world is one big happy family as the corporate elites do now. The corporate elites and Washington DC are enjoying the happy times right now. And of course some people (like my home group pastor) are happy that Americans are losing their standard of living and the Chinese are gaining. That makes everybody in the world "equal" and that is a good thing I guess--or so they think. But it isn't going to work for America because it only takes America down. I just have to wonder how bad things will get before there is serious resistance.

Is there just one other person on this board that agrees with me? Anybody?

http://www.acppubs.com/article/CA6427726.html

[quote]Toyota To Build New Assembly Plant In Mississippi

Staff
April 2, 2007
Construction News


Tupelo, Mississippi

Endzone2 Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:Yep, after 3 or 4 decades in Ft. Worth and some of the best paying jobs in Ft. Worth, Motorola is closing the plant at the end of next year. All employees have already been given their pink slips. They are being worked harder and expected to work more hours for the same pay. Most of the jobs (building cell phone infrastructure) will be shipping off to Mexico, and some of the jobs will remain in McCallen (right next to Mexico) if employees are willing to move there. I doubt if there will be many takers.

This is a very disturbing trend, and something needs to be done about it.

When Motorola moved semiconductor plants off-shore, many Phoenix area facilities were bought out or purchased by small start-up companies. Few jobs were lost, and in fact these small companies were willing to pursue innovation and markets that Motorola declined. In other words, the economy improved.

I don't find the trend disturbing at all. It's the economic churn, and while disappointing to someone caught in it, it's been around for a long time. Would you prefer that we still have gaslighters roaming the streets at dusk? That elevator operators still be on the payroll? That mills in New England still be operating, producing textiles that are too expensive, yet keeping resources from innovative companies in the fields of medical equipment, photonics, IT, robotics, etc.?

If Mexicans can do the required job, and do it for less pay, then more power to them. Shouldn't they get rewarded for putting themselves in that position? Where's the incentive to improve if you deny them that?

I don't think this is a matter of technological advancement Dr. Torch. Of course I would never say we should keep current technology strictly so people can have their jobs. I was a radio officer on U.S. merchant ships for 10 years. We didn't need CW (Morse) operators anymore when the satellite and HF telex stations came up around 1980. Eventually the telecommunications act of 1996 have a provision in it that merchant ship operators didn't need to carry radio operators anymore. Some still kept them due to the large volume of military message traffic and also to do emergency repairs.

But this is a completely different matter. There has been no huge advancement in cell phone infrstructure that can only be done in Mexico. I fail to see what point you are making in regards to people losing their jobs. This trend is to continue making THE SAME product only making it cheaper (much cheaper by Mexican wages) and then bringing it back into the U.S. for sale.

And that's precisely the rationale that was used when Motorola took their chip-making off-shore. But, by freeing up those resources, other companies innovated, and as I said, few jobs were lost in Phoenix. I know this b/c one of my old housemates works at one of those facilities.

But here's a link to some of the activity that occurred:
http://www.bizjournals.com/site_map2/pho..._2005.html

Quote: The only people that win are the business people and people at the top of companies--and retired folks sitting on their 20,000 share of stock. The middle class working man loses.

Sorry, but that's not quite right. I'm sure there is some angst and fretting among employees, but in the end my old housemate didn't even change offices, and he'll probably get rich if ON Semiconductor has a big hit.

[quote="GGniner"]http://www.acppubs.com/article/CA6427726.html

[quote]Toyota To Build New Assembly Plant In Mississippi

Staff
April 2, 2007
Construction News


Tupelo, Mississippi

Sounds like the middle class should invest then to take advantage of this.

Quote:And that's precisely the rationale that was used when Motorola took their chip-making off-shore. But, by freeing up those resources, other companies innovated, and as I said, few jobs were lost in Phoenix. I know this b/c one of my old housemates works at one of those facilities.

By freeing up those resources.... You mean freeing up the peons that operated the machines on the line that produced the chips? Instead of paying them $15/hour at Motorola, they could get the job done in Mexico for 50cents/hour? I trying to follow you here, but I guess I'm having a hard time. How was reliving hundreds of line workers at Motorola going to help other companies innovate? Was there no longer a demand for those IC's? They why did Motorola send the jobs to Mexico?

I'm off to Mississippi in a few hours to try and get a job there. The Motorola plant closing just about 300 yards down the street from where I am typing now isn't going to help matters in this area. Some of those people are already trying to get jobs at Lockheed Martin. I guess the one thing the feds haven'et completely offshored yet is our military hardware. But, they will probably try to get rid of more and more of it. I'll bet the Chinese would really give them some great deals. Think of all the free R&D info the Chinese would get in return. The whole world could make their military as good as ours and then we would all be "equal". Wouldn't that be wonderful. But, I guess that means there go the jobs at Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics then. I wonder what Americans will be left to do.

Is there just one other person on this board that agrees with me?

SO Endzone, just let me make sure I'm hearing you right.

You think Motorola should continue to pay $85K for a guy to do a job that can be done much cheaper elsewhere? But the technology isn't changing at all. So what exactly are they paying a guy all this money for? Motorola wouldn't stay in business very long, and the guy would be out of a job anyway.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:SO Endzone, just let me make sure I'm hearing you right.

You think Motorola should continue to pay $85K for a guy to do a job that can be done much cheaper elsewhere? But the technology isn't changing at all. So what exactly are they paying a guy all this money for? Motorola wouldn't stay in business very long, and the guy would be out of a job anyway.

You better check your Motorola history my friend. Motorola has stayed in business very long with thousands of people making those kind of salaries. Of course the workers don't make near that. Yes the Iridium project was a huge loss, but that was caused by bone headed officers making bad decisions.

No, Motorla just wants to get in on the same act the rest of corporate America is. That is, they want to get rid of American labor and farm out the work to 3rd world countries. So long as the feds let them bring those goods back into America without any penalty they will continue to dump our jobs. It doesn't effect the corporate fat cat salaries at all. In fact they probably go up because the company will show a higher profit. The people that lose and lose big are the middle class. Of course all the folks in our government are the rich. We now have a situation in America where the rich are setting themselves up against the middle class in America just as the rich in 3rd world countries set themselves up against the poor. Soon, America will be the rich and the poor.

So I guess your answer is yes?

Endzone2 Wrote:Is there just one other person on this board that agrees with me? Anybody?

Not usually.

The ONLY people to benefit are the company's shareholders? How about THE CONSUMER???

Endzone2 Wrote:

Quote:And that's precisely the rationale that was used when Motorola took their chip-making off-shore. But, by freeing up those resources, other companies innovated, and as I said, few jobs were lost in Phoenix. I know this b/c one of my old housemates works at one of those facilities.

By freeing up those resources.... You mean freeing up the peons that operated the machines on the line that produced the chips? Instead of paying them $15/hour at Motorola, they could get the job done in Mexico for 50cents/hour? I trying to follow you here, but I guess I'm having a hard time. How was reliving hundreds of line workers at Motorola going to help other companies innovate? Was there no longer a demand for those IC's? They why did Motorola send the jobs to Mexico?

You can check me on the details, but I believe Motorola sent most of their IC work to the Philipines and perhaps other parts of Asia.

However, they didn't lay off the lineworkers in Phx, those facilities were bought out or taken over by Motorola spin-offs.

Thus Motorola was free to pursue their business strategy, while these other companies now had resources to do new things.

This isn't trying to pretend that something came from nothing. Motorola probably would have had to invest $1-2B to refurb these fab lines ($2B was the price paid by Intel for a large facility in Chandler, AZ) whereas they got by w/ less off-shore. Then they sold the US fab lines, and made a profit.

Ultimately it's a risk for both Motorola and the new companies...but business is always a risk. Nevertheless, it can work out that everybody wins. It's not a zero-sum game.

Quote:I'm off to Mississippi in a few hours to try and get a job there.

I know something about the defense jobs in MS. I'd suggest that you be careful. The agencies that are supposed to be investing heavily there are not the best run. Future defense cuts will probably target this work.
There are a couple of good companies there, in fact 2 years ago I won a PhII STTR for one of them (thank me later RebelKev) but their business is still tentative.

You might look into Phx or Tucson. Both are in pretty good shape econimically and they have jobs up your alley.

Google is the ideal model for a successful American owned and operated company, IMHO.

I would quit my current job as Director of IT Operations (AND a company PARTNER mind you) to work at Google.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Google is the ideal model for a successful American owned and operated company, IMHO.

So is Vivid Video. lmfao

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Google is the ideal model for a successful American owned and operated company, IMHO.

I would quit my current job as Director of IT Operations (AND a company PARTNER mind you) to work at Google.

They are building something in the Carolinas. You might get your shot.

fsquid Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Google is the ideal model for a successful American owned and operated company, IMHO.

I would quit my current job as Director of IT Operations (AND a company PARTNER mind you) to work at Google.

They are building something in the Carolinas. You might get your shot.

Charleston, SC

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Google is the ideal model for a successful American owned and operated company, IMHO.

I would quit my current job as Director of IT Operations (AND a company PARTNER mind you) to work at Google.

They are building something in the Carolinas. You might get your shot.

Charleston, SC

even better, a nice locale.

Endzone2 Wrote:

Quote:And that's precisely the rationale that was used when Motorola took their chip-making off-shore. But, by freeing up those resources, other companies innovated, and as I said, few jobs were lost in Phoenix. I know this b/c one of my old housemates works at one of those facilities.

By freeing up those resources.... You mean freeing up the peons that operated the machines on the line that produced the chips? Instead of paying them $15/hour at Motorola, they could get the job done in Mexico for 50cents/hour? I trying to follow you here, but I guess I'm having a hard time. How was reliving hundreds of line workers at Motorola going to help other companies innovate? Was there no longer a demand for those IC's? They why did Motorola send the jobs to Mexico?

I'm off to Mississippi in a few hours to try and get a job there. The Motorola plant closing just about 300 yards down the street from where I am typing now isn't going to help matters in this area. Some of those people are already trying to get jobs at Lockheed Martin. I guess the one thing the feds haven'et completely offshored yet is our military hardware. But, they will probably try to get rid of more and more of it. I'll bet the Chinese would really give them some great deals. Think of all the free R&D info the Chinese would get in return. The whole world could make their military as good as ours and then we would all be "equal". Wouldn't that be wonderful. But, I guess that means there go the jobs at Lockheed Martin and General Dynamics then. I wonder what Americans will be left to do.

Is there just one other person on this board that agrees with me?

I think that what's happening is inevitable. It does seem likely that in many cases the jobs that take the place of high-paying jobs that are moved to other countries, pay less on average. If they didn't, they would also be shipped off to other countries, with a few exceptions. So I think it's not enough to say that jobs weren't lost, the question is, were jobs replaced with lower paying ones? I don't know what effect that has on the economy in general. Goods are cheaper, but people make less on average, probably.

I do see your point endzone, that some people will be hit harder than others by this, and moving jobs to cheaper places helps the higher ups in the companies more since they have lots of stock and options. I think there needs to be a faster way to retrain people in a different field. But that's a different topic.