http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...E_ID=54704

Another view, signed by more than 500 economists, including 5 Nobel laureates

Quote:While a small percentage of native-born Americans may be harmed by immigration, vastly more Americans benefit from the contributions that immigrants make to our economy, including lower consumer prices. As with trade in goods and services, the gains from immigration outweigh the losses. The effect of all immigration on low-skilled workers is very likely positive as many immigrants bring skills, capital and entrepreneurship to the American economy.

Legitimate concerns about the impact of immigration on the poorest Americans should not be addressed by penalizing even poorer immigrants. Instead, we should promote policies, such as improving our education system, that enable Americans to be more productive with high-wage skills.

And a comment from the Wall Street Journal...

Quote:What is striking about this immigration letter is that it is signed by economists from different fields of research, political affiliations and ideologies. It is possible that no other issue in the economic field, with the exception of the benefits of free trade, inspires such unanimity of professional opinion as immigration does.

i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

I'm not convinced of that. What if you got the folks from Anacostia (or choose your favorite ghetto) and put them to work, instead of paying them better to do nothing?

I think US citizens of all castes would respect work more, they'd be the ones trying improve their lot in life, just as most immigrants do.

You'd still get your paycheck, and conumer prices would stay low. But, we'd also have the benefits of eliminating the welfare state, reducing crime, and tapping into talent that currently gets wasted.

DrTorch Wrote:

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

I'm not convinced of that. What if you got the folks from Anacostia (or choose your favorite ghetto) and put them to work, instead of paying them better to do nothing?

I think US citizens of all castes would respect work more, they'd be the ones trying improve their lot in life, just as most immigrants do.

You'd still get your paycheck, and conumer prices would stay low. But, we'd also have the benefits of eliminating the welfare state, reducing crime, and tapping into talent that currently gets wasted.

Watch what would happen to, say the price of produce if we kicked all of the illegals out right now.

Now, I don't agree with people being here illegally, and I also don't agree with their treatment. HOWEVER, reality is this: they ARE here and they ARE having a positive impact for many in this economy and they are NOT "taking the jobs away", because they've been doing these jobs for so long and these jobs are the jobs that others will not do either for the nature of the work or for the pay.

First they said that the Irish were taking jobs. Then it was free Blacks. Now it's Mexicans. Let's stop the scapegoating and try to do something different.

I'm a little confused on what they're suggesting. Are they saying that there should no laws or limits on immigration? Or, are they saying it's OK for some mexicans to be left waiting to come to the US legally while others are sneaking over and profiting from it?

Articles like this don't convince me. WHY do they think that the poor are not harmed? What facts do they have that indicate this?

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

Mexicans don't consume squt. They live 10 in an apartment and send all their money back to Mexico. The Texas economy would not stall without Mexicans, but rather wages for white guys would go up and a lot more of them would be doing construction jobs--just like they did throughout this nation's history.

Sophandros Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

I'm not convinced of that. What if you got the folks from Anacostia (or choose your favorite ghetto) and put them to work, instead of paying them better to do nothing?

I think US citizens of all castes would respect work more, they'd be the ones trying improve their lot in life, just as most immigrants do.

You'd still get your paycheck, and conumer prices would stay low. But, we'd also have the benefits of eliminating the welfare state, reducing crime, and tapping into talent that currently gets wasted.

Watch what would happen to, say the price of produce if we kicked all of the illegals out right now.

Now, I don't agree with people being here illegally, and I also don't agree with their treatment. HOWEVER, reality is this: they ARE here and they ARE having a positive impact for many in this economy and they are NOT "taking the jobs away", because they've been doing these jobs for so long and these jobs are the jobs that others will not do either for the nature of the work or for the pay.

First they said that the Irish were taking jobs. Then it was free Blacks. Now it's Mexicans. Let's stop the scapegoating and try to do something different.

The Irish came here leglly, the blacks came here legally, and so did the Italians that worked in the steel mills and did the tough jobs at the turn of the 20th century. Most of the Mexicans are coming here illegally, and it isn't immigration. It is a migration, and what is happening now is unprecedented in our nations history.

Sophandros Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

I'm not convinced of that. What if you got the folks from Anacostia (or choose your favorite ghetto) and put them to work, instead of paying them better to do nothing?

I think US citizens of all castes would respect work more, they'd be the ones trying improve their lot in life, just as most immigrants do.

You'd still get your paycheck, and conumer prices would stay low. But, we'd also have the benefits of eliminating the welfare state, reducing crime, and tapping into talent that currently gets wasted.

Watch what would happen to, say the price of produce if we kicked all of the illegals out right now.

Now, I don't agree with people being here illegally, and I also don't agree with their treatment. HOWEVER, reality is this: they ARE here and they ARE having a positive impact for many in this economy and they are NOT "taking the jobs away", because they've been doing these jobs for so long and these jobs are the jobs that others will not do either for the nature of the work or for the pay.

And that's the problem...others aren't doing those jobs, but they aren't doing ANY work at all!

Obviously there is a time-constant to all of this. It couldn't happen in a week...but try taking away the welfare benefits, and see how many jobs, regardless of the nature, get filled by US citizens.

We've already seen jobs go begging in Ga/SC which got some interest from Katrina refugees. Now Colorado people are complaining about labor shortages...

There are decent jobs (retail, fast food) that pay way above scale, yet go lacking, while folks in Anacostia and other parts of DC get subsidized to do nothing. That doesn't even count the plentiful jobs in landscaping and construction that are filled by immigrants.

This isn't a rant against immigrants, nor is it denying that they provide a service.

It's to point out that the natrual benefits of the free market have been stymied by the current welfare system, and the consequences are widespread.

Endzone2 Wrote:Mexicans don't consume squt. They live 10 in an apartment and send all their money back to Mexico. The Texas economy would not stall without Mexicans, but rather wages for white guys would go up and a lot more of them would be doing construction jobs--just like they did throughout this nation's history.

You are making the mistake of assuming that your personal experiences are representative of the norm, and they just aren't. Check that link I provided. Do a search on the impact of illegal immigration on our economy. Your example is simply not true when talking about the majority of illegal immigrants - it can't be. You talk about wage increases like they just happen in a vacuum. Increasing wages can lead to inflation and other negative economic impacts.

That being said, there is no question the entire system is flawed. It pays for foreigners to immigrate illegally, and it pays for the US government not to enforce it's laws. It's no wonder we have such a mess on our hands.

Endzone2 Wrote:

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

Mexicans don't consume squt. They live 10 in an apartment and send all their money back to Mexico. The Texas economy would not stall without Mexicans, but rather wages for white guys would go up and a lot more of them would be doing construction jobs--just like they did throughout this nation's history.

Just the white guys, huh?

BTW, the reason that the Mexicans are doing the jobs is that they will do it for cheaper, which is why small firms tend to hire them. This puts more money in the small business owner's pocket, which is good for the economy. Furthermore, it keeps the price of the end-product down, which is good for the economy.

Basically, I'm in favor of a guest worker program, get them registered and paying taxes, etc. They've been here for a long time and they're not going anywhere.

Additionally, the US should work more with Mexico to help them become some place where people who are born there will want to stay, which mean economic development.

Endzone2 Wrote:

Sophandros Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

I'm not convinced of that. What if you got the folks from Anacostia (or choose your favorite ghetto) and put them to work, instead of paying them better to do nothing?

I think US citizens of all castes would respect work more, they'd be the ones trying improve their lot in life, just as most immigrants do.

You'd still get your paycheck, and conumer prices would stay low. But, we'd also have the benefits of eliminating the welfare state, reducing crime, and tapping into talent that currently gets wasted.

Watch what would happen to, say the price of produce if we kicked all of the illegals out right now.

Now, I don't agree with people being here illegally, and I also don't agree with their treatment. HOWEVER, reality is this: they ARE here and they ARE having a positive impact for many in this economy and they are NOT "taking the jobs away", because they've been doing these jobs for so long and these jobs are the jobs that others will not do either for the nature of the work or for the pay.

First they said that the Irish were taking jobs. Then it was free Blacks. Now it's Mexicans. Let's stop the scapegoating and try to do something different.

The Irish came here leglly, the blacks came here legally, and so did the Italians that worked in the steel mills and did the tough jobs at the turn of the 20th century. Most of the Mexicans are coming here illegally, and it isn't immigration. It is a migration, and what is happening now is unprecedented in our nations history.

You know that it doesn't have a damned thing to do with whether they are here legally or not. Even the ones here legally are willing to work longer for less than the US born workers.

DrTorch Wrote:

Sophandros Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

aTxTIGER Wrote:i get a paycheck every week because of illegal immigrants. the texas economy would stall without their labor and without them as consumers.

I'm not convinced of that. What if you got the folks from Anacostia (or choose your favorite ghetto) and put them to work, instead of paying them better to do nothing?

I think US citizens of all castes would respect work more, they'd be the ones trying improve their lot in life, just as most immigrants do.

You'd still get your paycheck, and conumer prices would stay low. But, we'd also have the benefits of eliminating the welfare state, reducing crime, and tapping into talent that currently gets wasted.

Watch what would happen to, say the price of produce if we kicked all of the illegals out right now.

Now, I don't agree with people being here illegally, and I also don't agree with their treatment. HOWEVER, reality is this: they ARE here and they ARE having a positive impact for many in this economy and they are NOT "taking the jobs away", because they've been doing these jobs for so long and these jobs are the jobs that others will not do either for the nature of the work or for the pay.

And that's the problem...others aren't doing those jobs, but they aren't doing ANY work at all!

Obviously there is a time-constant to all of this. It couldn't happen in a week...but try taking away the welfare benefits, and see how many jobs, regardless of the nature, get filled by US citizens.

We've already seen jobs go begging in Ga/SC which got some interest from Katrina refugees. Now Colorado people are complaining about labor shortages...

There are decent jobs (retail, fast food) that pay way above scale, yet go lacking, while folks in Anacostia and other parts of DC get subsidized to do nothing. That doesn't even count the plentiful jobs in landscaping and construction that are filled by immigrants.

This isn't a rant against immigrants, nor is it denying that they provide a service.

It's to point out that the natrual benefits of the free market have been stymied by the current welfare system, and the consequences are widespread.

If you are truly in favor of a free market, then you are in favor of the illegals, because they drive wages down and profits up.

Quote:This puts more money in the small business owner's pocket, which is good for the economy.

You are delusional. It isn't good for anybody except you. Don't say that is what is good for you is good for the rest of middle class America. You people who are business types are willing to allow yourselves to be deceived easily.

The war between the people who run companies and the people who work there is rising yet again. The gap between the rich or upper middle class and the middle class and lower is rising very rapidly. That isn't good for "the economy". That's only good for you.

Endzone2 Wrote:

Quote:This puts more money in the small business owner's pocket, which is good for the economy.

You are delusional. It isn't good for anybody except you. Don't say that is what is good for you is good for the rest of middle class America. You people who are business types are willing to allow yourselves to be deceived easily.

The war between the people who run companies and the people who work there is rising yet again. The gap between the rich or upper middle class and the middle class and lower is rising very rapidly. That isn't good for "the economy". That's only good for you.

I really don't care about anyone but myself. That's the duty I have to my family.

fsquid Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:

Quote:This puts more money in the small business owner's pocket, which is good for the economy.

You are delusional. It isn't good for anybody except you. Don't say that is what is good for you is good for the rest of middle class America. You people who are business types are willing to allow yourselves to be deceived easily.

The war between the people who run companies and the people who work there is rising yet again. The gap between the rich or upper middle class and the middle class and lower is rising very rapidly. That isn't good for "the economy". That's only good for you.

I really don't care about anyone but myself. That's the duty I have to my family.

You have a duty to your family to be selfish and self-centered and not care about other people? Okay, I know what you're saying. Just don't try to tell people that they're better off because you're paying workers less money.

Endzone2 Wrote:

Quote:This puts more money in the small business owner's pocket, which is good for the economy.

You are delusional. It isn't good for anybody except you. Don't say that is what is good for you is good for the rest of middle class America. You people who are business types are willing to allow yourselves to be deceived easily.

The war between the people who run companies and the people who work there is rising yet again. The gap between the rich or upper middle class and the middle class and lower is rising very rapidly. That isn't good for "the economy". That's only good for you.

Yeah, Sophandros, the capitalist fat cat.

lmfao lmfao lmfao

NIU007 Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:

Quote:This puts more money in the small business owner's pocket, which is good for the economy.

You are delusional. It isn't good for anybody except you. Don't say that is what is good for you is good for the rest of middle class America. You people who are business types are willing to allow yourselves to be deceived easily.

The war between the people who run companies and the people who work there is rising yet again. The gap between the rich or upper middle class and the middle class and lower is rising very rapidly. That isn't good for "the economy". That's only good for you.

I really don't care about anyone but myself. That's the duty I have to my family.

You have a duty to your family to be selfish and self-centered and not care about other people? Okay, I know what you're saying. Just don't try to tell people that they're better off because you're paying workers less money.

I am better off. The illegals that landscape my yard are better at what they do and much cheaper than the other options. I'm having a deck done really cheap too.