Blackwater was just awarded a govt. contract to mentor our Buds/seal groups. I find this trend very disturbing. Private contractors have no chain of command. They don't have to follow rules of war and can act outside our govt. So Blackwater can take our best and our brightest offer them double their salary and weaken our traditional military. Plus add in the fact that Erik Prince is a heavy GOP fund raiser and you can come up with so many conflicts of interest. You can't privatize our miltary and that's exactly what is happening.

There was a really good episode of PBS' Frontline examining this issue a while back.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/warriors/

Civilians have been training and mentoring our military for years, Dogger. Is this problem bothering you now just because Bush is in office?

Also, yes, Blackwater DOES work at the behest of the DoD and yes, their contract can be pulled in a hearbeat, and yes, there IS oversight.

Yes, I have a HUGE problem with war profiteers and Erik Prince defiently fits the bill. I'm in the middle of a documentary "Why we Fight" and it has some disturbing trends with our for profit military complex. I'll post more when I'm through with it.

BTW.... the oversight is almost non existant.... we have a bunch of marlboro men on steroids playing mercenary..... with Republicans holding their hands.

Machiavelli Wrote:Yes, I have a HUGE problem with war profiteers and Erik Prince defiently fits the bill. I'm in the middle of a documentary "Why we Fight" and it has some disturbing trends with our for profit military complex. I'll post more when I'm through with it.

BTW.... the oversight is almost non existant.... we have a bunch of marlboro men on steroids playing mercenary..... with Republicans holding their hands.

Those "Marlboro Men" are mainly military veterans and retirees that wore the uniform you're apparently to much of a coward to don.

Again, with the personal attacks.....................

The marlboro men is a figure of speech. The steroids is talking about beefing up of a paramiltary organization. Weaponized helicopters and such. I have serious issues with privatizing our military and when some of the things come to light I suspect the majority of American's will to. So, follow the AUP and debate the issues. No personal attacks.

Why is it such a good idea for our military to subcontract themselves? How could it be good for our country to have rogue elements dictating and conducting foreign policy and foreign wars? I would particularly like to hear your insights Reb.

Machiavelli Wrote:Again, with the personal attacks.....................

The marlboro men is a figure of speech. The steroids is talking about beefing up of a paramiltary organization. Weaponized helicopters and such. I have serious issues with privatizing our military and when some of the things come to light I suspect the majority of American's will to. So, follow the AUP and debate the issues. No personal attacks.

Why is it such a good idea for our military to subcontract themselves? How could it be good for our country to have rogue elements dictating and conducting foreign policy and foreign wars? I would particularly like to hear your insights Reb.

The military isn't being f'n privatized. I AM a defense contractor. Contractors operate in many different roles and many different capacities in the military. Personal attacks? What you are saying in this thread IS a personal attack....AGAINST ME. Contractors have been used by the military since day one. It's MUCH more economically feasible for contractors to perform certain duties.

No, you want to pussify our military....something you know not a damn thing about.

BTW, tell us, why is it that you are against anything that makes our forces more combat-effective? Ever heard of a guy by the name of Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, USMC-Ret? How about Colonel Nick Rowe, USA and SOCOM-Ret, (Murdered by Communists)?

I also work for a defense contractor, and its not that big of a deal.

It is more efficient.

But with certain things, like conducting operations in the field, there needs to be a very transparent oversight system and it needs to be made clear what laws they are accountable to, and that they are actually being held accountable.

When Rumsfeld was asked that question by a colleague of mine, as to what system was in place to protect against abuse, he deferred, saying he didn't have that information off hand. I don't think thats good enough, I think we need to have a better system in place, particularly after Abu Ghraib.

Quote:It's MUCH more economically feasible for contractors to perform certain duties.

Why is that? I've never understood why its better to pay a guy 6 figures to escort a truck when you could have a sergeant with just as much experience doing the same job for a fraction of the cost.

dwr0109 Wrote:

Quote:It's MUCH more economically feasible for contractors to perform certain duties.

Why is that? I've never understood why its better to pay a guy 6 figures to escort a truck when you could have a sergeant with just as much experience doing the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Dude, not all military contractors are making 6 figures. Are there? Yes. Many that serve in combat zones. As for the issue at hand, it's because of the overhead it comes with having a full staff, providing them with healthcare, and everything that comes with it. Most businesses in the private sector do this as well. Also, I screw up, my ass is on the short train to the unemployment line like yesterday. Try to chapter someone out of the military that hasn't done something terribly wrong, and it takes a LONG time.

RebelKev Wrote:

dwr0109 Wrote:

Quote:It's MUCH more economically feasible for contractors to perform certain duties.

Why is that? I've never understood why its better to pay a guy 6 figures to escort a truck when you could have a sergeant with just as much experience doing the same job for a fraction of the cost.

Dude, not all military contractors are making 6 figures. Are there? Yes. Many that serve in combat zones. As for the issue at hand, it's because of the overhead it comes with having a full staff, providing them with healthcare, and everything that comes with it. Most businesses in the private sector do this as well. Also, I screw up, my ass is on the short train to the unemployment line like yesterday. Try to chapter someone out of the military that hasn't done something terribly wrong, and it takes a LONG time.

Exactly. And I think the labor flexibility goes beyond just accountability for poor performance. A lot of it is just that you can contract people to do ad-hoc projects/tasks, but if you were to hire them for that purpose, you'll never get rid of them and then you're stuck with people you don't need.

OUGwave Wrote:Exactly. And I think the labor flexibility goes beyond just accountability for poor performance. A lot of it is just that you can contract people to do ad-hoc projects/tasks, but if you were to hire them for that purpose, you'll never get rid of them and then you're stuck with people you don't need.

I'm in that situation. When I get back from Ft. Wainwright "hopefully" I'm going to be put on another project as this one will be done. If not, time to dust off the old resume.

RebelKev Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:Again, with the personal attacks.....................

The marlboro men is a figure of speech. The steroids is talking about beefing up of a paramiltary organization. Weaponized helicopters and such. I have serious issues with privatizing our military and when some of the things come to light I suspect the majority of American's will to. So, follow the AUP and debate the issues. No personal attacks.

Why is it such a good idea for our military to subcontract themselves? How could it be good for our country to have rogue elements dictating and conducting foreign policy and foreign wars? I would particularly like to hear your insights Reb.

The military isn't being f'n privatized. I AM a defense contractor. Contractors operate in many different roles and many different capacities in the military. Personal attacks? What you are saying in this thread IS a personal attack....AGAINST ME. Contractors have been used by the military since day one. It's MUCH more economically feasible for contractors to perform certain duties.

No, you want to pussify our military....something you know not a damn thing about.

OMFG, I can't believe I actually agree with RebelKev. It must be a sign of the apocalypse.

Quote:All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

I'm more concerned with the Blackwater types conducting "the treatment interrogations". We sub contract these guys out so they can escape prosecution if they "accidently" kill someone in their interrogations. We shouldn't be privatizing national security or are foreign wars. These black operaters of Rummy's creation need to see the light of day. I'm also very uncomfortable with a Republican who donates 200,000 to the RNC being awarded contracts in the billions.

Machiavelli Wrote:I'm more concerned with the Blackwater types conducting "the treatment interrogations". We sub contract these guys out so they can escape prosecution if they "accidently" kill someone in their interrogations. We shouldn't be privatizing national security or are foreign wars. These black operaters of Rummy's creation need to see the light of day. I'm also very uncomfortable with a Republican who donates 200,000 to the RNC being awarded contracts in the billions.

Be sure to stock up on tinfoil.

I watched the Daily Show for the first time in awhile tonight, what a mistake. The author of the book about Blackwater was on, one lie after another and he made a point to tell as many as possible by talking extremely fast to try to get it all out. stupid marxist.

GGniner Wrote:I watched the Daily Show for the first time in awhile tonight, what a mistake. The author of the book about Blackwater was on, one lie after another and he made a point to tell as many as possible by talking extremely fast to try to get it all out. stupid marxist.

Colbert is hella better.


Hella, gee, THANKS Swoosh. Damnit.

Machiavelli Wrote:

Quote:All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

I'm more concerned with the Blackwater types conducting "the treatment interrogations". We sub contract these guys out so they can escape prosecution if they "accidently" kill someone in their interrogations. We shouldn't be privatizing national security or are foreign wars. These black operaters of Rummy's creation need to see the light of day. I'm also very uncomfortable with a Republican who donates 200,000 to the RNC being awarded contracts in the billions.

Why do you just not like it when Republicans do it?? I mean c'mon... don't act like Democrats don't have their hands in people's pockets.

But more importantly... Name the person, and the victims of these interrogations... and PLEASE learn to spell a bit better if you plan on a career in journalism/reporting/writing.

I come from a LONG line of Military, many of whom went into contracting afterwards... not because they were trying to rip anyone off, but because they had the specific knowledge that it took to answer the needs of the Military. Heck, the MOVIES AND VIDEO-GAME COMPANIES hire ex-military personell to consult them on battle scenes and "futuristic" weaponry.

Prisons in the US are frequently contracted out... why not in the military?? As far as interrogation, that may be another issue... but I'm having to take your word for it. PART of interrogation is knowing what makes the enemy tick, and how to get under their skin. That takes expertice that the military may not be able to simply keep on staff waiting for a time when we need an expert on making militant buddhists talk. The police certainly contract with outside sources.

There is an inherent difference between the way the military and private enterprise operate. There isn't much "on-the-job-training" in the private sector, but that is what the military is all about... and the training involves killing or being killed, so as you should understand, they don't take chances... you follow orders... PERIOD.

Some people simply don't understand the role of the Military. They defend our nation against all enemies, foriegn AND domestic. If they aren't the biggest, baddest, meanest, toughest sons of ******* on the block, then I want a different military. You don't buy a chihuahua for home protection.