While throwing more and more money towards teachers, schools, etc., the results have actually become worse. But, the scam is that teachers and administrators are giving easy test to make themselves look good.

Anybody remember that the SAT was made easier after 1995? They say you have to subtract 100 points to a post 1995 score to be on par with SAT test taken before that time. And what do we always hear from teachers? Yep, whining and complaining about how they don't make enough money.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...E_ID=54565

Boom......................... across the bow


Schools are a reflection of their immediate community. If a parent values education their kid will value an education. Our problem. We try to educate EVERYONE (the problem of lower scores) to a certain level. For instance, when I first started teaching Biology was an elective. You had to get an A or B in 9th grade science to "qualify" for Bio. I could push those kids hard. Today, every kid is mandated by the state to have 3 years of lab based sciences. You have to lower your standards to get kids through the class. Administrators pass kids through the 8th grade no matter what their grade in jr. hi is. They justified this to us by a study. So, you get trapped into this cycle. Teacher's today, we are more motivators than anything. Kids do change. I have seen kids that would of been left by the wayside pre-1995 succeed. It does make you feel good when a kid from the gutter does well and makes a success out of his life. The price of an individual does take it's toll out of a group. So endzone, I guess that's where we find ourselves today in America. Americans like the individual. We like it when the underdog wins, but understand it's different in other cultures. They would never sacrifice the group for the individual. Would you have liked your fate sealed by jr. hi? It many countries it is.




I'll post some questions from the Science part of the Ohio Graduation Test. It covers the standards that are supposed to be taught in the 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th grade years. I would bet twenty percent of our general public would pass the test. I would LOVE, (give a thousand dollars to the guy who would love) to have the legislature take the test and have his scores posted publicly.

Endzone2 Wrote:While throwing more and more money towards teachers, schools, etc., the results have actually become worse. But, the scam is that teachers and administrators are giving easy test to make themselves look good.

Anybody remember that the SAT was made easier after 1995? They say you have to subtract 100 points to a post 1995 score to be on par with SAT test taken before that time. And what do we always hear from teachers? Yep, whining and complaining about how they don't make enough money.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...E_ID=54565

Yeah, and what you get to drilling deeper down is that the educational system brings all this grief on themselves.

Want to get involved in public education? You have to be in the classroom to be a guidance counselor. You have to have degrees in Education to be a superintendent.

Furthermore, "educators" set themselves up as high priests of this religion. Children are taught each day that teachers know all...and that conditioning remains through adulthood. Your average citizen doesn't much challenge educators...on budgets, content or teaching styles. Schools aren't a reflection of the "community" so much as the community is a reflection of the schools. That's the benefit of getting 90%+ of the populace to go through your indoctrination program.

They insulate themselves from outsiders, so all their concepts are in-bred and their assumptions remain unchallenged. Even the absurd ones that are repeatedly demonstrated to be fallcious and often harmful to students and society.

Once that happens the answer for all concerns is the standard, "we need more money." Not just for salaries, but for new buildings, "new" teaching curricula, tools, etc.
(There are currently a couple of long threads on the Lima News site exactly on these subjects)

I'd say that homeschooling is the best thing going to give the US a chance to compete globally, but many homeschoolers are just repeating the same mistakes made by the public educators. Don't get me wrong, homeschooling is a big boon to the US, but that community has plenty of warts as well.

Blame no child left behind for our current system, not the educators. Nobody who teaches likes NCLB for the simple fact that they now teach to a test. My mom has cut out probably 25% of the material she taught before NCLB because of the school district forcing her to teach specifically to those tests...

Now I'm sure a handful of people on here will say that the teachers don't like it because it grades their performance, which is partially true. However, I don't think it is an accurate reflection of whether they are a good teacher or not. As Machiavelli stated above, the parents of the students make a HUGE difference in whether they take school seriously or not. If the parents are not involved then there is only so much the teacher can do...

DrTorch Wrote:I'd say that homeschooling is the best thing going to give the US a chance to compete globally, but many homeschoolers are just repeating the same mistakes made by the public educators. Don't get me wrong, homeschooling is a big boon to the US, but that community has plenty of warts as well.

No way. The average household does not have the teaching tools that a public school can offer a student. You also do not learn the social skills needed to succeed in life when being home schooled.

Every year we get a handful of kid's that were home schooled. They are so far behind socially that it could almost constitute child abuse.


On another note, I have absolutely no problem being held accountable. Just tell me what's going to be on the damn test. Right now the standards for the 10th grade test encompass evrything they should of learned from the 5th through the tenth grade. That should be easy enough. The problem is the standards were all switched two years ago so the curriculum isn't aligned. So many times the questions being asked are things these kids have never been taught. Here's a question from a an 8th grade standard today, that was actually a 5th grade standard when the current 10th graders went through 5th grade.

Which property of a star can be determined most directly from it's color.

A. mass

B. diameter

C. age

D. surface temperature

Now remember. Many of the kids taking the test were 9th graders when the standards were finally established. This is NOW taught in the 8th grade. They were 5th graders when they covered somewhat the same material. Worse, a diploma is held over their heads. We have a girl now, who works her tail off, always has her homework done but won't get a diploma this spring. She has one more chance to pass this test next week. I've been tutoring her after school for the past three weeks. We will go over a problem, she will understand that one problem, but when the question is worded differently or she actually has to apply the standard she will miss the question. Feel bad for the girl, but she was born a year too late. We shall see how many of you get the above question right.

In 2004, wildlife rescuers found a great horned owl nearly dead from starvation. The owl

Many species of plants in the family Proteaceae produce seeds with fleshy structures called

mlb Wrote:Blame no child left behind for our current system, not the educators. Nobody who teaches likes NCLB for the simple fact that they now teach to a test. My mom has cut out probably 25% of the material she taught before NCLB because of the school district forcing her to teach specifically to those tests...

Now I'm sure a handful of people on here will say that the teachers don't like it because it grades their performance, which is partially true. However, I don't think it is an accurate reflection of whether they are a good teacher or not. As Machiavelli stated above, the parents of the students make a HUGE difference in whether they take school seriously or not. If the parents are not involved then there is only so much the teacher can do...

I have to agree that a lot of it is up to the parents, and the state of the family sure isn't what it used to be--especially in the black community. Although I will have to say that I went with a pastor friend of mine to pick up his elementary and jr. hi. grandkids the other day. This was in a nice burb community on the far south side of Ft. Worth. I was shocked at what I saw. Whites were a minority. About half the kids were black and their parents had mostly 60K to 100K government jobs. They sure weren't your typical "attitude" blacks. Then another 25% were Mexicans and some Indians, Pakistani's, etc. The entire burb community consist of houses one step up from starter house liike RebelKev's house. All the parents seemed to be involved. The conflicts his grandkids had with the blacks and one group siding with another group and this, that and the other thing is for another discussion in another thread I suppose. I really don't think teachers should be responsible for if a kid learns or not. You can't force a kid to learn if he doesn't want to. But that still leaves the question, how do you evaluate teachers? Patients always die at hospitals, so how do you evaluate doctors? But I am tired of hearing the "we need more money" excuse all the time. I don't even think learning is a function of how much money you throw at it as long as you have enough for basic things like text, chalkboards, etc.

Funny Story.....

My first year teaching I had 27 kids in a class and only had 26 desks. I told my principal I needed another desk. We couldn't find one so he comes back at me and says, "well, there will be some days kids are absent". So when I had 27 kids there, we always joked that someone didn't check the list of who was supposed to be absent. You find ways to get by.

Machiavelli Wrote:Boom......................... across the bow


Schools are a reflection of their immediate community. If a parent values education their kid will value an education. Our problem. We try to educate EVERYONE (the problem of lower scores) to a certain level. For instance, when I first started teaching Biology was an elective. You had to get an A or B in 9th grade science to "qualify" for Bio. I could push those kids hard. Today, every kid is mandated by the state to have 3 years of lab based sciences. You have to lower your standards to get kids through the class. Administrators pass kids through the 8th grade no matter what their grade in jr. hi is. They justified this to us by a study. So, you get trapped into this cycle. Teacher's today, we are more motivators than anything. Kids do change. I have seen kids that would of been left by the wayside pre-1995 succeed. It does make you feel good when a kid from the gutter does well and makes a success out of his life. The price of an individual does take it's toll out of a group. So endzone, I guess that's where we find ourselves today in America. Americans like the individual. We like it when the underdog wins, but understand it's different in other cultures. They would never sacrifice the group for the individual. Would you have liked your fate sealed by jr. hi? It many countries it is.




I'll post some questions from the Science part of the Ohio Graduation Test. It covers the standards that are supposed to be taught in the 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th grade years. I would bet twenty percent of our general public would pass the test. I would LOVE, (give a thousand dollars to the guy who would love) to have the legislature take the test and have his scores posted publicly.

From all my K-12 experience I remember being persuaded to take 9th grade biology as the biggest mistake in my life. I knew even then I didn't want to have anything to do with this as an occupation in my life. Here's what I remember about it. We disected worms, frogs, etc. I specifically remember studying a process of how the body breaks down sugar called glycholosis or something like that? I also remember the mandatory leaf collection and insect collection. I didn't turn in a leaf collection and I used a neighbor kids insect collection I claimed as my own. I short I HATED this class. It wasn't because the teacher wasn't any good. He was pretty good and was also one of the Jr. High football coaches. I just had no interest in it. But, back then (1971) it was considered a class you should take if you were going to go to college. I can't imagine being forced to take 3 years of it now.

Machiavelli Wrote:Every year we get a handful of kid's that were home schooled. They are so far behind socially that it could almost constitute child abuse.

You mean they don't believe in the theory of evolution and they actually think there is a God? They don't say, "F U" and "whatupnigger" and try to fit in like the other kids? You mean they have a healthy respect for authority and weren't raised on Ritalin? I know a lot of home schooled kids and they are great kids. There is also an outstanding K-12 school at my local church here in Ft. Worth.

Machiavelli Wrote:Every year we get a handful of kid's that were home schooled. They are so far behind socially that it could almost constitute child abuse.


On another note, I have absolutely no problem being held accountable. Just tell me what's going to be on the damn test. Right now the standards for the 10th grade test encompass evrything they should of learned from the 5th through the tenth grade. That should be easy enough. The problem is the standards were all switched two years ago so the curriculum isn't aligned. So many times the questions being asked are things these kids have never been taught. Here's a question from a an 8th grade standard today, that was actually a 5th grade standard when the current 10th graders went through 5th grade.

Which property of a star can be determined most directly from it's color.

A. mass

B. diameter

C. age

D. surface temperature

Now remember. Many of the kids taking the test were 9th graders when the standards were finally established. This is NOW taught in the 8th grade. They were 5th graders when they covered somewhat the same material. Worse, a diploma is held over their heads. We have a girl now, who works her tail off, always has her homework done but won't get a diploma this spring. She has one more chance to pass this test next week. I've been tutoring her after school for the past three weeks. We will go over a problem, she will understand that one problem, but when the question is worded differently or she actually has to apply the standard she will miss the question. Feel bad for the girl, but she was born a year too late. We shall see how many of you get the above question right.

D. Surface temp.

[quote="Machiavelli"]In 2004, wildlife rescuers found a great horned owl nearly dead from starvation. The owl

Endzone2 Wrote:I don't even think learning is a function of how much money you throw at it as long as you have enough for basic things like text, chalkboards, etc.

give me a break. our state finances school by property taxes, so there is a much bigger disparity between the rich and poor than there may be in other areas of the country. i personally worked at a school district where they have been using the same books for 10-15 years. they cant afford new ones, so every summer they have to tape and glue them back togethor. some are in such bad condition they have to be removed from the binding, hole punched, and put in binders for students to use. art and extra curricular programs across the board have been cut. the ceiling leaks when it rains. again, no money to fix any of it.

on the other hand, there are schools on the north shore that have climbing walls in the gym, courses in latin or japanese, banking, water polo teams, and science labs better than most universities.

Quote:Spending Gaps Parallel Achievement Gaps Illinois achievement gaps mirror its spending gaps among school districts. The average low-poverty school district spent almost $2,500 more pupil than the average high-poverty district, reflecting the second largest funding gap in the nation. [i] In terms of minimum resources provided for low-income students, poor children in Illinois fared far worse than their peers in neighboring states. Illinois � per-pupil spending in its high-poverty districts is $5,862, far less than the amount invested in high-poverty districts in neighboring states.

The student achievement gaps in Illinois mirror these spending gaps. While maintaining the second largest spending gap in the nation, Illinois also produced the third largest achievement gap (in fourth grade reading). The neighboring states of Wisconsin , Minnesota , Missouri, Indiana and Iowa ranked far better in both their achievement gaps and their spending gaps than Illinois .

In 2003-04, the highest spending school district in Illinois spent $19,361 more per pupil than the lowest spending school district, increasing the gap by $4,000 compared to the year before. [i] The spending gap is similar for high-minority school districts: on average, low-minority school districts have $1,862 more revenues available per student than high-minority school districts in Illinois , the third worst minority spending gap in the country. [ii]

Disecting today is more of an anatomy class. Honest to God, EZ. If any student addressed me the way you said above they would be out of my class on their keester. I wouldn't take it. You get what you put up with. You just need an administartion willing to back you up. We had a Dean of Students a couple of years back who tried to buddy up with the kids, he didn't last long. If the students fear the asst. principal or the Dean of Students the teacher's job is easier.

[quote="Machiavelli"]Many species of plants in the family Proteaceae produce seeds with fleshy structures called

Machiavelli Wrote:Disecting today is more of an anatomy class. Honest to God, EZ. If any student addressed me the way you said above they would be out of my class on their keester. I wouldn't take it. You get what you put up with. You just need an administartion willing to back you up. We had a Dean of Students a couple of years back who tried to buddy up with the kids, he didn't last long. If the students fear the asst. principal or the Dean of Students the teacher's job is easier.

What are you referring to? Was it my passionate dislike for biology or something else? I would love to have gotten thrown out of your class as a 9th grader. But, I guess that means I wouldn't graduate--right?

EZ scored a 2 out of 4

Machiavelli Wrote:EZ scored a 2 out of 4

Yeah, but come on the answer to the owl question was a joke. I'll say the real answer is C, natural selection. Am I right?

Also, there are 5 possible answers. One each in the first 2 questions and 3 in the last question.