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If Libby is charged, others should be.
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #21
 
Quote:Not so fast my friend................... Many crimes have been solved by the person admitting to a killing if the prosecuter won't charge them with it.Jeffrey Dahmer........

See Dogger, this is why you are so bad at this. You just pull crap out your arse with absolutely no regard for facts.

Dahmer was found guilty on 15 counts of murder and sentenced to 15 life terms in prison. Was that just a make believe court? Maybe one in Canada?

Quote:Bundy........

Bundy was given the death penalty for the murders he committed. Can you explain to me how he could have been exectued if the prosecutor never charged him with a crime?

Quote:the list is literally endless.

So endless that the first 2 you pull off died in prison serving a life sentences and were executed respectively. 01-wingedeagle

BTW, you've passed over the border of pathetic into full blown pathetic.

Machiavelli Wrote:IT WAS A CRIME... Fitzgerald CHOSE not to prosecute it, BECAUSE ARMITAGE COOPERATED!!!!!! What don't you get about that.

Please provide me with one news article the supports this statement Dogger. Just one.

This is from the Washington Post Article above Dogger
Quote:THIS GRAND JURY CHARGES PATRICK J. FITZERALD with ignoring the fact that there was no basis for a criminal investigation from the day he was appointed,

What that means Dogger is there was no crime.

From the Washington Post
Quote:Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously.

It's time for you to face facts Dogger. I know it's unpleasant and I know it hurts, but you are WRONG. There is no other way for you to spin it, ignore it or deflect it. And the longer you try and argue that you aren't the more pitiful you show yourself to be.

Move on.
02-23-2007 11:05 AM
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #22
 
these nuts watch MSNBC, what do you expect. I stumbled over to Chris Matthews last night, something I had sworn off since it was clear with the Plame case he was lying to his audience, and what did I find was Matthews lying to his audience again. He informed his audience again last night that Joe Wilson did not in effect lie about the Iraq/Niger/Uranium story that invented the "bush lied" bs, and of course did not mention the Senate report debunking Wilson among other things.

Libby being found "guilty" could be fun though, because they will appeal and on that appeal they will argue for Andrea Mitchell to testify which is something NBC is not going to want.
02-23-2007 11:11 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #23
 
I can't believe your going to make me look up Dahmer facts but I thought he admitted to other crimes in other states just to solve them. He killed more than 15 people. Insert any other serial killer who admitted to other crimes just to solve them. The Seattle killer (Green River maybe?) and the Alaskan serial killer (he was a cake baker) did the same thing. The main point of my story is prosecuters around this great country of ours chose who they want to prosecute every day. It's a common practice. Armitage was let go because he cooperated. Simple really.
02-23-2007 11:41 AM
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #24
 
Machiavelli Wrote:Armitage was let go because he cooperated. Simple really.

Mike Nifong certainly "chose" who he would prosecute, for poltical gain.

Please cite what law was broken that Armitage "cooperated" on?
02-23-2007 11:45 AM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #25
 
Machiavelli Wrote:I can't believe your going to make me look up Dahmer facts but I thought he admitted to other crimes in other states just to solve them.

Yes, silly me. Actually making you justify with facts something you posted. I have a lot of nerve I know.

Quote:Insert any other serial killer who admitted to other crimes just to solve them. The Seattle killer (Green River maybe?) and the Alaskan serial killer (he was a cake baker) did the same thing.

Only after they are in custody and have been tried and sentenced for other crimes Dogger. That is why your example doesn't work. Armitage isn't in jail for other crimes. There was no crime to begin with.

Quote:Armitage was let go because he cooperated. Simple really.

Good then you should have no trouble producing just one piece of evidence that supports your statement right? Let's have it.

Oh BTW, this is from a Newsweek article written about Armitage.

Quote:Armitage's central role as the primary source on Plame is detailed for the first time in "Hubris," which recounts the leak case and the inside battles at the CIA and White House in the run-up to the war. The disclosures about Armitage, gleaned from interviews with colleagues, friends and lawyers directly involved in the case, underscore one of the ironies of the Plame investigation: that the initial leak, seized on by administration critics as evidence of how far the White House was willing to go to smear an opponent, came from a man who had no apparent intention of harming anyone.

A little more.

Quote:Indeed, Armitage was a member of the administration's small moderate wing. Along with his boss and good friend, Powell, he had deep misgivings about President George W. Bush's march to war. A barrel-chested Vietnam vet who had volunteered for combat, Armitage at times expressed disdain for Dick Cheney and other administration war hawks who had never served in the military. Armitage routinely returned from White House meetings shaking his head at the armchair warriors. "One day," says Powell's former chief of staff Larry Wilkerson, "we were walking into his office and Rich turned to me and said, 'Larry, these guys never heard a bullet go by their ears in anger ... None of them ever served. They're a bunch of jerks'."

And this is the man that you are claiming leaked Plame's name b/c Cheney ordered him to, and that Fitzgerald let off for committing a crime (there was no crime BTW) so he could get to Cheney? 01-wingedeagle

One more question. Shouldn't a condition of Armitage not being charged with a crime be that he admitted Cheney ordered him to leak it? Why did Fitzgerald let him go if he never admitted to that?

I'll be waiting for your evidence that shows your assertion to be correct. Any time now would be great. Not like it's hard...right?
02-23-2007 11:51 AM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #26
 
There are a couple of points to consider with Armitage. (1) Fitzgerald didn't pursue any case against Armitage because Armitage didn't know it was confidential when he mentioned it. (2) Armitage isn't necessarily a friend of the Bush admin so we know that he didn't offer that info up as political points. (3) Armitage didn't realize the info was classified, and as a result didn't commit a crime in FIZGERALD'S eyes. (4) Fitzgerald's right by the way. He didn't bring charges against Rove either. I have no problem with Fitzgerald not bringing up charges against Armitage. I wish he would of brought charges against Rove though. But THAT WAS Fitzgerald's decision. Something prosecutor's all over the US do on a daily basis.


On the other hand, the person(s) who keep leaking this classified information, like an NIE which are all classified and everyone knows it is simply doing it for political manuevering. That is 100% illegal.

CHENEY CAN NOT DECLASSIFY a NIE with the wave of a hand. This is not SOP. You know it.... I know it......... yet you continue to defend it. IT is 100 percent illegal to leak classified material to discredit a War Critic.
02-23-2007 12:51 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #27
 
GAME


SET



and match FOLKS.........................


wooo hooooooooooooooooo
02-23-2007 12:55 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #28
 
Machiavelli Wrote:There are a couple of points to consider with Armitage. (1) Fitzgerald didn't pursue any case against Armitage because Armitage didn't know it was confidential when he mentioned it.

At what point was Armitage instructed by Cheney to leak it? And why didn't Armitage testify to the fact that he was ordered to do so? That is still the key piece of info you have yet to grace us with. And I'm still waiting on one shred of evidence in support of your statements Dogger. Isn't it telling that you have yet to be able to provide any? Even after hours of googling no doubt.

Quote:(2) Armitage isn't necessarily a friend of the Bush admin so we know that he didn't offer that info up as political points.

If he isn't a friend of the Bush admin why would he leak her name based on an order from Cheney?

Quote:(3) Armitage didn't realize the info was classified, and as a result didn't commit a crime in FIZGERALD'S eyes.

"I'm sorry officer. I didn't know the speed limit was 35. So I guess I won't get a ticket for going 80." 01-wingedeagle


Quote:(4) Fitzgerald's right by the way. He didn't bring charges against Rove either. I have no problem with Fitzgerald not bringing up charges against Armitage. I wish he would of brought charges against Rove though.

Actually he didn't bring charges because there was no crime. Had their been a crime, he would be obligated to bring charges.

Quote:But THAT WAS Fitzgerald's decision. Something prosecutor's all over the US do on a daily basis.

You are so clueless it's laughable. Prosecutors bring cases based on evidence. If there's enough evidence to bring a case they do it. They don't sit back and, at their leisure, decide who they will and won't bring up on charges based on if they were cooperative or not.

Quote:I know it.........

You'd don't know sh!t Dogger. That much very clear.

Quote:GAME


SET



and match FOLKS.........................


wooo hooooooooooooooooo

What a loon you are.

Quote:Dogger:
None shall pass.
ARTHUR:
What?
Dogger:
None shall pass.
ARTHUR:
I have no quarrel with you, good Sir Knight, but I must cross this bridge.
Dogger:
Then you shall die.
ARTHUR:
I command you, as King of the Britons, to stand aside!
Dogger:
I move for no man.
ARTHUR:
So be it!
ARTHUR and Dogger:
Aaah!, hiyaah!, etc.
[ARTHUR chops Dogger's left arm off]

ARTHUR:
Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
Dogger:
'Tis but a scratch.
ARTHUR:
A scratch? Your arm's off!
Dogger:
No, it isn't.
ARTHUR:
Well, what's that, then?
Dogger:
I've had worse.
ARTHUR:
You liar!
Dogger:
Come on, you pansy!
[clang]
Huyah!
[clang]
Hiyaah!
[clang]
Aaaaaaaah!
[ARTHUR chops Dogger's right arm off]

ARTHUR:
Victory is mine!
[kneeling]
We thank Thee Lord, that in Thy mer--
Dogger:
Hah!
[kick]
Come on, then.
ARTHUR:
What?
Dogger:
Have at you!
[kick]
ARTHUR:
Eh. You are indeed brave, Sir Knight, but the fight is mine.
Dogger:
Oh, had enough, eh?
ARTHUR:
Look, you stupid bastard. You've got no arms left.
Dogger:
Yes, I have.
ARTHUR:
Look!
Dogger:
Just a flesh wound.
[kick]
ARTHUR:
Look, stop that.
Dogger:
Chicken!
[kick]
Chickennn!
ARTHUR:
Look, I'll have your leg.
[kick]
Right!
[whop]
[ARTHUR chops Dogger's right leg off]

Dogger:
Right. I'll do you for that!
ARTHUR:
You'll what?
Dogger:
Come here!
ARTHUR:
What are you going to do, bleed on me?
Dogger:
I'm invincible!
ARTHUR:
You're a looney.
Dogger:
Dogger always triumphs! Have at you! Come on, then.
[whop]
[ARTHUR chops Dogger's last leg off]

Dogger:
Oh? All right, we'll call it a draw.
ARTHUR:
Come, Patsy.
Dogger:
Oh. Oh, I see. Running away, eh? You yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you. I'll bite your legs off!
02-23-2007 01:31 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #29
 
MONTY PYTHON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 A classic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
02-23-2007 01:34 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #30
 
see Scooter is the one on trial........... Only Scooter could tell us the answer you seek............


it's not a matter of where it grips it.

it's a simple matter of weight ratios

a 5 oz bird can not carry a 1 pound coconut.
02-23-2007 01:38 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #31
 
Machiavelli Wrote:see Scooter is the one on trial........... Only Scooter could tell us the answer you seek............

I see. So Scooter could tell us when Cheney ordered Armitage to leak the name, but Armitage can't tell us when he was ordered to do so. Makes perfect sense. 01-wingedeagle

One piece of evidence Dogger. One article, one news story, that supports the point you're making. Can you do that? No. Since you can't, doesn't that tell you something?
02-23-2007 01:42 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #32
 
Niner,


Do me a favor.......................

Call your local county prosecutor and ask him how many plea bargains he does in a year. Better yet, ask him what percent of his/her cases go to trial. I think you'd be surprised Baghdad. Prosecutors make these decisions on a daily basis. I'd bet you a wooden nickel Fitzgerald believes Rove committed a crime but he didn't have enough to convict. Big difference BB. That's my new name for you. Baghdad Bob. BB for short.
02-23-2007 01:47 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #33
 
Machiavelli Wrote:Call your local county prosecutor and ask him how many plea bargains he does in a year. Better yet, ask him what percent of his/her cases go to trial. I think you'd be surprised Baghdad. Prosecutors make these decisions on a daily basis. I'd bet you a wooden nickel Fitzgerald believes Rove committed a crime but he didn't have enough to convict. Big difference BB. That's my new name for you. Baghdad Bob. BB for short.

I don't have to call one Doggy, a good friend of mine is one. He's actually been reading your diatribes. He finds them quite hilarious.

Now back to my question. It is your assertion that Scooter can tell us that, and if so when, Armitage was ordered by Cheney to leak Plame's name, but Armitage cannot tell us that, or if so when, he was ordered to do so?

One shred of evidence Doggy. Just one small piece. What's sad is you can't, and you know you can't. But you still hold fast to being wrong. It'd be more funny if it wasn't so sad.
02-23-2007 01:55 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #34
 
I don't think Cheney directed Armitage. I think Cheney directed Scooter to. This is why he is on trial. Your totally ignoring Cooper and Miller because the first piece was Novak's. The big point you are totally omitting is that Armitage COOPERATED. Armitage had nothing to hide, he was not part of the cabal. Scooter, Rove, definetly Cheney and maybe Bush were. We will never know. Scooter will do twenty to make sure we never find out.
02-23-2007 02:05 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #35
 
Now my good friend. I've been kind enough to answer your questions. Would you be so kind to extend me the same courtesy?


1) Can Cheney release or Cherry pick parts of a NIE at the wave of a hand. Is this not 100% illegal?

2) Why did Mary Matalin say this story "has legs" and they should try to bury it.
02-23-2007 02:15 PM
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Ninerfan1 Offline
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Post: #36
 
Machiavelli Wrote:I don't think Cheney directed Armitage. I think Cheney directed Scooter to. This is why he is on trial.

No, he is on trial for purjury. He has not been charged with the crime of leaking her name. That's why I'm trying to get it through your thick skull that it wasn't a crime to do so. If it were, Libby would be on trial for that. He is not.

Quote:Your totally ignoring Cooper and Miller because the first piece was Novak's.

Novak's piece was when her name was first used. Novak's piece is what triggered the investigation to begin with. The crime being investigated was did the leaking of her name violate the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. (FYI the person who helped write the act says no crime was committed.) I'm not ignoring Cooper and Miller, I'm saying no crime was committed by the leaking of her name to them.

Quote:The big point you are totally omitting is that Armitage COOPERATED. Armitage had nothing to hide, he was not part of the cabal. Scooter, Rove, definetly Cheney and maybe Bush were. We will never know. Scooter will do twenty to make sure we never find out.

The point you're totally missing is what a knot you've tied yourself into. Prosecutors cannot absolve someone of a crime. If it was a crime to leak her name, as you suggest, then Armitage confessing to that crime means the prosecutor can only offer a lesser punishment, not absolve them and refuse to prosecute them for it. That's what you don't get, and obviously never will.

As far as the "cabal" that involved Scooter, Rove and Cheney, the Washington Post, Post Dogger, not Times, as said that no such thing occurred and was an invention of Joe Wilson, and one that you have so dutifully embraced.

You have no facts Dogger, you have no evidence. You have nothing, as shown by the fact that you still, to this moment, have posted NOTHING to support your view other than looney conspiracy theories.

There's really nothing more to be said. You're wrong, you probably know it, you're just too damn prideful or just too clueless to acknowledge it.

But you keep fighting the fight Black Knight. Come patsy!
02-23-2007 02:20 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #37
 
Here's a good excerpt.


Vice President Cheney's press officer, Cathie Martin, approached his chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on Air Force Two on July 12, 2003, to ask how she should respond to journalists' questions about Joseph C. Wilson IV. Libby looked over one of the reporters' questions and told Martin: "Well, let me go talk to the boss and I'll be back."

On Libby's return, Martin testified in federal court last week, he brought a card with detailed replies dictated by Cheney, including a highly partisan, incomplete summary of Wilson's investigation into Iraq's suspected weapons of mass destruction program.

Libby subsequently called a reporter, read him the statement, and said - according to the reporter - he had "heard" that Wilson's investigation was instigated by his wife, an employee at the CIA, later identified as Valerie Plame. The reporter, Matthew Cooper of Time magazine, was one of five people with whom Libby discussed Plame's CIA status during those critical weeks that summer.

After seven days of such courtroom testimony, the unanswered question hanging over Libby's trial is, did the vice president's former chief of staff decide to leak that disparaging information on his own?

No evidence has emerged that Cheney told him to do it, but Cheney's dictated reply is one of many signs to emerge at the trial of the vice president's unusual attentiveness to the controversy and his desire to blunt it. His efforts included the extraordinary disclosure of classified information, including one-sided synopses of Wilson's report and a 2002 intelligence estimate on Iraq.

Under questioning from FBI agent Deborah S. Bond, Libby acknowledged that he and Cheney "may have talked" aboard the plane from Norfolk, Virginia, that day about whether to make public Plame's CIA employment, Bond testified Thursday.

Her testimony brought Cheney closer than ever to the heart of the controversy surrounding the Bush administration's efforts to discredit Wilson, who had accused the White House of twisting intelligence he had gathered as it sought to justify the invasion of Iraq.

White House officials testified that Cheney was irritated because he thought Wilson had alleged the vice president sent him on the fact-finding trip to Niger but rejected the investigation's conclusions. Time after time at the height of the controversy, they said, Cheney directed the administration's response to Wilson's criticism and Libby carried it out.

Cheney personally dictated other talking points for use by the White House press office; helped negotiate the wording of a key statement by then-CIA Director George J. Tenet; instructed Libby to deal directly with selected reporters; told Libby to disclose selected passages from the national intelligence estimate and other classified reports; and held a luncheon for conservative columnists to discuss the controversy.

Throughout this period, Cheney kept a news clipping of Wilson's criticisms on his desk, annotated with the question, "did his wife send him on a junket?" according to court statements. Libby told a grand jury that he and Cheney discussed it on multiple occasions each day.

Randall Eliason, a former chief of public corruption prosecutions for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Washington, D.C., said, "There has been significant evidence of how deeply the vice president was involved. If Cheney is personally, deeply involved in it, it's Libby's job to be personally, deeply involved."

Wilson was a former U.S. ambassador dispatched by the CIA the previous year - at the suggestion of his wife but on a decision by other officials - to determine whether Iraq had recently tried to acquire nuclear materials from Niger. The agency later said that it was responding to inquiries made by Cheney's office, the State Department and the Defense Department.

On July 6, 2003, 16 months after his return, Wilson publicly accused the administration of ignoring his report, which debunked the Iraq-Niger speculation, and of twisting his information to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Wilson's allegations provoked a political firestorm. Within days, the White House was forced to repudiate a key assertion President Bush had made in his State of the Union address, and Tenet issued an unusual public apology for failing to stop the president from making it. But rather than tamping down the controversy, the administration's backtracking only "made it flare up," as then-White House spokesman Ari Fleischer testified last week.

In its response, the White House wound up training its fire not only on the substance of Wilson's allegations but on him personally, trial testimony has shown.

Over the course of that week in July, bracketed by Wilson's published criticism and Cheney's flight back from Norfolk, three senior White House officials - Libby, Fleischer and special presidential assistant Karl Rove - inaccurately told or suggested to five reporters that Wilson had been dispatched to Niger by Plame, according to the testimony. Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage separately told columnist Robert D. Novak that Plame worked at the CIA, and Novak made that news public July 14.

The belittling implication of the disclosure, as Fleischer and others testified last week, was that nepotism, rather than Wilson's knowledge and experience, lay behind his involvement in the matter.

While Cheney and Libby have asserted that their sole intent in contacting journalists was to defend the credibility of their policy, prosecutors disclosed new evidence on Wednesday that the administration was focusing on Wilson himself. Cheney's then-communications director, Mary Matalin, advised Libby in a phone call July 10, said prosecutor Peter Zeidenberg.

Matalin, according to notes Libby made of the conversation, called Wilson "a snake" and warned that his "story has legs," said Zeidenberg. She laid out a plan: "We need to address the Wilson motivation. We need to be able to get the cable out. Declassified. The president should wave his wand."

While arguing unsuccessfully that the jury should see all of Libby's notes on the conversation, Zeidenberg said, "All we have heard from the defense all along is that Mr. Libby was only interested in responding on the merits." He said it was significant that Libby wrote down word for word "an extremely negative and ad hominem attack, if you will, about a critic".

Plame's employment at the CIA was classified, making it illegal for any official to knowingly and intentionally disclose it. Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald's 22-month investigation did not produce charges of that offense.

Libby was indicted on charges of making false statements, obstruction of justice and perjury for denying that he was aware of Plame's employment and had disclosed it to journalists.

In courtroom testimony, witnesses have asserted that Cheney and two others told Libby about Plame in June, and that he told two journalists and Fleischer - who in turn said he told two more journalists. It was, in short, a hot topic of gossip by the administration.

According to Martin's testimony, Cheney directed her early in the week of July 6 to keep track of daily news coverage of the controversy, including "who was continuing to comment". During a meeting on Capitol Hill, Martin said, Cheney "dictated to me what he wanted me to say" about it to reporters.

In a meeting July 8, said Martin, Cheney also decided that Libby would call NBC News reporters Andrea Mitchell and David Gregory to discuss the matter. Martin said she walked out during Libby's subsequent calls to the reporters.

After Mitchell suggested in a broadcast that the White House was "pushing blame" for the mess toward the CIA, Martin said, then-deputy national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley looked directly at Martin during a staff meeting and said such efforts were improper. At that moment, Martin said, Libby "looked down," in effect leaving her to absorb the blame.

Three months later, White House spokesman Scott McClellan publicly cleared Rove of leaking Plame's name - inaccurately, as it turned out - but provided no such statement about Libby.

According to Cheney's own notes, introduced at the trial last week, Cheney told McClellan that such a statement "has to happen today. Call out key press saying same thing about Scooter as Karl. Not going to protect one staffer and sacrifice the guy that was asked to stick his neck in the meat grinder because of the incompetence of others."

Intellpuke: You can read this article by Washington Post staff writers R. Jeffrey Smith and Carol D. Leonnig, reporting from Washington, D.C., in context here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...01344.html
Washington Post staff writer Amy Goldstein contributed to this report.
02-23-2007 02:32 PM
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GGniner Offline
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Post: #38
 
the gasping at straws conspiracy theory I saw on Hardball last night by Matthews and David Shuster was that the prosecution simply wants a guilty verdict against Libby and the idea of jail time being a reality so they can then finally get the "truth" out of him and he'll then turn on Rove and Libby.

This brainwashing would be funny if it weren't so serious.
02-23-2007 02:32 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #39
 
Two more things Baghdad:


1. Any reference to a Monty Python movie deserves respect. 04-rock


2. This is why you should have Snow's job. You stay with talking points to the point of lunacy. Your great at staying away from the FACTS of the case. You deflect to Armitage when he isn't even on trial and you totally ignore our boy Scooter. Your good. It wouldn't work with the thinking man's crowd, but I'm sure it would fly with your average Faux noise watcher.
02-23-2007 03:27 PM
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Post: #40
 
Machiavelli Wrote:2. This is why you should have Snow's job. You stay with talking points to the point of lunacy. Your great at staying away from the FACTS of the case. You deflect to Armitage when he isn't even on trial and you totally ignore our boy Scooter. Your good. It wouldn't work with the thinking man's crowd, but I'm sure it would fly with your average Faux noise watcher.

Whatever you say Black Knight. I've offered fact upon fact. Even posted news articles that show flatly how wrong you are. So it's not just me. And you've offered up as evidence...absolutley nothing. Take our arguments into a court of law and I'd shred you up one end and down the other. But you're used to that by now I'm sure.

But one thing is clear, you have no regard for truth or facts. You have Dogger world and reality, and never the two shall meet. But that's a constant in this world, so I find comfort in it.
02-23-2007 03:31 PM
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