Fanatical Wrote:From history
As in ecclesiastical language those who by baptism have received faith in Jesus Christ and have pledged Him their fidelity and called the faithful, so the name infidel is given to those who have not been baptized.
and Roman Catholics
It is Latin, not arabic

even the secular world knows:
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/infidel

I never said it wasn't Latin. Am I to assume you don't think there is an Arabic translation of Infidel? Am I also to assume that you believe Infidel is merely a religious term? Last I checked, infidelity is a term that has meanings throughout life, not just in religion.

Am I to assume that you think "jihad" translates to "holy war"? See I can play, too.

Just thought you would like to know the history and historical usage of the terms you use in context.

Fanatical Wrote:Am I to assume that you think "jihad" translates to "holy war"? See I can play, too.

Just thought you would like to know the history and historical usage of the terms you use in context.

You think I go around calling people infidels? I'm only quoting the numerous weird beards out there that are using it as a war cry.

You think I go around calling people infidels? I'm only quoting the numerous weird beards out there that are using it as a war cry.[/quote]

C'mon, admit it! You go around issuing fatwas against the infidels! ;-)

Seriously, the Saudis are in general more fundamentalist and radical muslims than the Iraqis were. As long as the nutcases can spew anti-American venom from Saudi territory, with the regime looking the other way, defeat or victory in Iraq will be hollow, IMHO.

I was reading an article in Foreign Affairs (from a couple years ago) that indicated the Saudi clerics were worried about a US-Shiite combination against the Sunnis. Maybe we should be doing that. The Sunnis and Shia will fight each other no matter what, we might as well be on the side that is the enemy of Bin Laden.

NIU007 Wrote:I was reading an article in Foreign Affairs (from a couple years ago) that indicated the Saudi clerics were worried about a US-Shiite combination against the Sunnis. Maybe we should be doing that. The Sunnis and Shia will fight each other no matter what, we might as well be on the side that is the enemy of Bin Laden.

....and the Shi'ites have an ally who wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. I seriously don't understand your logic.

Back to the topic at hand. All of you, the people talking about all these evil Christians, can say whatever you want without fearing that you will be beheaded, etc. Try saying something about Islam in a Muslim-dominated country. You guys don't think Christians deserve just a little ******* tolerance? Just a tad?

....and the Shi'ites have an ally who wants to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. I seriously don't understand your logic.

Back to the topic at hand. All of you, the people talking about all these evil Christians, can say whatever you want without fearing that you will be beheaded, etc. Try saying something about Islam in a Muslim-dominated country. You guys don't think Christians deserve just a little **** tolerance? Just a tad? [/quote]

What ally is that?

NIU007 Wrote:What ally is that?

Ahmedwhatshisnuts is a Persian Shi'ite.

NIU007 Wrote:What ally is that?

My guess is Iran.

RebelKev Wrote:

NIU007 Wrote:What ally is that?

Ahmedwhatshisnuts is a Persian Shi'ite.

Gotcha. So much for that plan. I guess the Shia weren't made aware that they're in league with us. ;-)

JTiger Wrote:

Fanatical Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:I was referring to the far right Christian equivalent of the radical Muslims, which are showcased in the documentary. Note I also said a part of it.

:shhh: I didn't want to say it...

cue the "but Christians don't blow people up!!" comeback

Sure they do, they've bombed abortion doctors in the name of God

That little girl in your sig is so cute. Mind if I steal the pic to use in another board?

RebelKev Wrote:

OUGwave Wrote:Since neither poses an omnipresent threat to my life in my mind, ...

By the way, dear viewers, this is the mindset of a liberal. They don't see the danger of Islamic Fundamentalism and try desperately to compare it to Christian fundamentalism.

**** insane, if you ask me. I've seen both.

You're right RebelKev. I worked with a 20-something liberal guy in Seattle in 1998-2000. He worked across the bench from me. Although we respected each other, we were always butting heads. He especially came unglued when I called Muslims "ragheads". He said, "that's so wrong, you should respect everybodies religion". That was his attitude and that is the attitude of liberals--that all religions are equal. I told him that the bombing that happened in the basement of the WTC was going to happen again because the feds would let anybody into this country. I left in 2000 and 9-11 happened in 2001. But as deceived as the liberal mind can be, I'd guess he still thinks all religions are equal.

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:And you seriously believe in speaking in tongues? Wow...

Why would that surprise you? I openly confess to being a Bible believing Christian, and speaking in tongues is in the Bible (New Testament even).

I know some pretty hardcore Southern Baptists... and even they don't believe in it.

I wouldn't call them hardcore then. Also, there is a movement from within the Baptists churches that will lead to the destruction of many that "think" they are following after Christ. Instead, they are following a Christ made in man's image.

Ok, back to the tongues thing. If a Christian does not beleive in it, then they don't believe that the Bible is absolute, and thus their whole belief system should be evaluated. Tongues is a gift of the Spirit, and it has not gone away.

Do you believe that Christians today speak in tongues? There is a big difference between now and the days of Pentecost. In case you forgot non-Jews couldn't be Christians either and that is also in the New Testament....

If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

blah Wrote:Do you believe that Christians today speak in tongues? There is a big difference between now and the days of Pentecost. In case you forgot non-Jews couldn't be Christians either and that is also in the New Testament....

If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

*pops bag of popcorn and sits down*

blah Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:And you seriously believe in speaking in tongues? Wow...

Why would that surprise you? I openly confess to being a Bible believing Christian, and speaking in tongues is in the Bible (New Testament even).

I know some pretty hardcore Southern Baptists... and even they don't believe in it.

I wouldn't call them hardcore then. Also, there is a movement from within the Baptists churches that will lead to the destruction of many that "think" they are following after Christ. Instead, they are following a Christ made in man's image.

Ok, back to the tongues thing. If a Christian does not beleive in it, then they don't believe that the Bible is absolute, and thus their whole belief system should be evaluated. Tongues is a gift of the Spirit, and it has not gone away.

Do you believe that Christians today speak in tongues? There is a big difference between now and the days of Pentecost. In case you forgot non-Jews couldn't be Christians either and that is also in the New Testament....

If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

While speaking in these tongues, are you also handling rattle snakes and drinking poison? Pentecostals like to forget about that little tidbit. I must admit that doing the crazy talk would be much easier that letting a snake bite you or drinking poison or curing people by touching them. I guess if I was going to base my religion on that single day in history, I guess I would have picked speaking in tongues too.

Crazy Christians.

blah Wrote:If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

No, you are off base. Visit any Pentecostal church and you will see that this goes on regularly.

blah Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:And you seriously believe in speaking in tongues? Wow...

Why would that surprise you? I openly confess to being a Bible believing Christian, and speaking in tongues is in the Bible (New Testament even).

I know some pretty hardcore Southern Baptists... and even they don't believe in it.

I wouldn't call them hardcore then. Also, there is a movement from within the Baptists churches that will lead to the destruction of many that "think" they are following after Christ. Instead, they are following a Christ made in man's image.

Ok, back to the tongues thing. If a Christian does not beleive in it, then they don't believe that the Bible is absolute, and thus their whole belief system should be evaluated. Tongues is a gift of the Spirit, and it has not gone away.

Do you believe that Christians today speak in tongues? There is a big difference between now and the days of Pentecost. In case you forgot non-Jews couldn't be Christians either and that is also in the New Testament....

If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

A couple of things...Paul and Peter went out to the Gentiles. See numerous scriptures about "The Mystery". Also, many of the epistles were written to Churches of converted gentiles.

Also, see the book of 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 (I think) to learn about speaking in tongues after the day of Pentecost..Yes, it still happens.

I think that many today have perverted the whole "speaking in tongues" thing and have made it either a must do or taboo in different denominations. When speaking in tongues is done in truth, it is an orderly and understood thing. It may be between an individual and God or one to many individuals. They key is that someone will understand it.

No, I don't do the snakes and poison thing.

RebelKev Wrote:

blah Wrote:If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

No, you are off base. Visit any Pentecostal church and you will see that this goes on regularly.

i actually agree with rebelkev on something. speaking in tongues is still very much in practice.

GrayBeard Wrote:

blah Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:And you seriously believe in speaking in tongues? Wow...

Why would that surprise you? I openly confess to being a Bible believing Christian, and speaking in tongues is in the Bible (New Testament even).

I know some pretty hardcore Southern Baptists... and even they don't believe in it.

I wouldn't call them hardcore then. Also, there is a movement from within the Baptists churches that will lead to the destruction of many that "think" they are following after Christ. Instead, they are following a Christ made in man's image.

Ok, back to the tongues thing. If a Christian does not beleive in it, then they don't believe that the Bible is absolute, and thus their whole belief system should be evaluated. Tongues is a gift of the Spirit, and it has not gone away.

Do you believe that Christians today speak in tongues? There is a big difference between now and the days of Pentecost. In case you forgot non-Jews couldn't be Christians either and that is also in the New Testament....

If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

A couple of things...Paul and Peter went out to the Gentiles. See numerous scriptures about "The Mystery". Also, many of the epistles were written to Churches of converted gentiles.

Also, see the book of 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 (I think) to learn about speaking in tongues after the day of Pentecost..Yes, it still happens.

I think that many today have perverted the whole "speaking in tongues" thing and have made it either a must do or taboo in different denominations. When speaking in tongues is done in truth, it is an orderly and understood thing. It may be between an individual and God or one to many individuals. They key is that someone will understand it.

No, I don't do the snakes and poison thing.

Why not do the snakes and poison? If the Holy Spirit is really bringing on the "tongues", you should have no problem. Or is there really no faith there.

P.S. I am aware of the fact that Peter and Paul preached to the Gentiles, but I was illustrating the point of how things progress through the Bible and that in the New Testament (the beginning obviously) the message of Jesus Christ was brought only to the Jews and that just because it happened in the New Testament doesn't mean the practice does or should continue today.

P.P.S. I am also aware of 1 Cor. 12, but I always interpreted that as gifts from God to be used to spread the gospel...i.e. if you are good with languages (tongues) use that gift to spread the gospel through missions work. It seems to me that the point of this chapter was to illustrate that every Christian has gifts that can and should be used for the Lord. Not every person can be the Pastor, but then not every body part can be an eye. At the end of the chapter it lists the gifts and the gift of diversities of tongues is listed last. If it were that important wouldn't it be listed higher? Paul also says this about speaking in tongues...

Quote:He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

When you think about it speaking in tongues really doesn't accomplish anything except to identify the speaker as a so-called Christian but I would argue if that is the test for identification, why not have them drink poison? It would be much more powerful, there wouldn't be any debating it (obviously anyone can mumble some crap and pretend to be speaking in tongues) and all the pretenders would be dead.

One last question. Seeing as prophesy is also listed as one of the gifts, along with speaking in tongues, can you identify any modern day prophets?

RebelKev Wrote:

blah Wrote:If you still think speaking in tongues goes on, you are way, I mean way, off base.

No, you are off base. Visit any Pentecostal church and you will see that this goes on regularly.

Mumbling B.S. doesn't count as speaking in tongues. Bring along some poison and have them drink it. It they are really possessed by the spirit they won't have any trouble. I bet that they won't partake though.