niuhuskie84 Wrote:you still didnt answer my question though. who are the "bastards"? when will "they" have been beaten? or more to the point, who are we even fighting in iraq in the first place? what is our purpose? when is the mission completed? again, when have we won? what is the finish line?

Who are we fighting? Al Qaeda. Iranian-backed insurgents. Shi'ite extremists. Sunni, Ba'athist loyalists. In essence, TERRORISTS. It's not how you see it on the "teevee". There are millions there that DO support us and DO want peace.

....but you've never been there so no getting through to you.

RebelKev Wrote:

niuhuskie84 Wrote:you still didnt answer my question though. who are the "bastards"? when will "they" have been beaten? or more to the point, who are we even fighting in iraq in the first place? what is our purpose? when is the mission completed? again, when have we won? what is the finish line?

Who are we fighting? Al Qaeda. Iranian-backed insurgents. Shi'ite extremists. Sunni, Ba'athist loyalists. In essence, TERRORISTS. It's not how you see it on the "teevee". There are millions there that DO support us and DO want peace.

....but you've never been there so no getting through to you.

all you're doing is throwing non sequiturs at me.

you have still failed to answer the heart of the question. i ask again. when have we beaten the terrorists? we're not fighting a country thats going to wave a white flag and sit down and sign a peace treaty. we are fighting THOUGHTS. IDEAS. BELIEFS. and you do not "defeat" those waging a conventional war. you think we're somehow going to kill a certain amount of "terrorists", and that suddenly those who dislike us or our policies are going to change their minds?

niuhuskie84 Wrote:all you're doing is throwing non sequiturs at me.

you have still failed to answer the heart of the question. i ask again. when have we beaten the terrorists? we're not fighting a country thats going to wave a white flag and sit down and sign a peace treaty. we are fighting THOUGHTS. IDEAS. BELIEFS. and you do not "defeat" those waging a conventional war. you think we're somehow going to kill a certain amount of "terrorists", and that suddenly those who dislike us or our policies are going to change their minds?

We ARE beating them, on a daily f'n basis. Is there a timetable that you would like to place on your freedom? Your very existence? Your life? This isn't Vietnam nor is it Korea. THIS enemy will follow us home. Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines KNOW this. You don't? Fine, don't enlist. YOU'RE not serving, so what is YOUR b-itch?

This is a war that will take years. They aren't going to stop. There have been Imams, the world over, that are dedicated to seeing London, Washington, etc. fall under Sha'ia law. Are you game? You ready to see that?

You liberals need to fight or get the f-u-c-k out of the way because, whether you believe it or not, we ARE fighting for our very existence.

Now here's a question for you, since the topic has deviated to one about Islam, ......


When has appeasement EVER worked?

RebelKev Wrote:You liberals need to fight or get the f-u-c-k out of the way because, whether you believe it or not, we ARE fighting for our very existence.

look, im going to stand up for what i believe in. im sorry that dosent mesh with your vision.

RebelKev Wrote:This is a war that will take years. They aren't going to stop. There have been Imams, the world over, that are dedicated to seeing London, Washington, etc. fall under Sha'ia law. Are you game? You ready to see that?

I'm as ready to see that as I am to see the fundamentalist christians running "Jesus Camp" to have the world fall under their Biblical law.

Yes I did just compare fundametalism between religions. We're fortunate that American Christians don't want to use as many guns. I think most are in it for the money anyway.

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:You liberals need to fight or get the f-u-c-k out of the way because, whether you believe it or not, we ARE fighting for our very existence.

look, im going to stand up for what i believe in. im sorry that dosent mesh with your vision.

....then you don't believe there's a world-wide issue with Islamic fundamentalism that wants to take over the world?

Hmmm, I seem to be a bit more rational that than. Especially since I see something that started in the Middle-East spread throughout Indo-China, SW Asia, SE Asia, growing in Europe and Russia, etc. You libs seem to have more of a problem with Christianity. Tell me why? Has a Christian done anything to you other than make you question your morality? The fundamentalist Muslims will do much more, that I can assure you.

That **** puzzles me more than anything. Fundamentalist Muslims want to kill us. I get that. What I DON'T get is liberals trying to make excuses for them and in the same breath bashing the hell out of Christians. ....and before you start a post saying this isn't the case, I'll leave you with this. I read Democratic Underground every f'n day.

Fanatical Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:This is a war that will take years. They aren't going to stop. There have been Imams, the world over, that are dedicated to seeing London, Washington, etc. fall under Sha'ia law. Are you game? You ready to see that?

I'm as ready to see that as I am to see the fundamentalist christians running "Jesus Camp" to have the world fall under their Biblical law.

Yes I did just compare fundametalism between religions. We're fortunate that American Christians don't want to use as many guns. I think most are in it for the money anyway.

:withstupid:

Fanatical Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:This is a war that will take years. They aren't going to stop. There have been Imams, the world over, that are dedicated to seeing London, Washington, etc. fall under Sha'ia law. Are you game? You ready to see that?

I'm as ready to see that as I am to see the fundamentalist christians running "Jesus Camp" to have the world fall under their Biblical law.

When Christians don't get their way, I.e. elections, they don't started kidnapping, beheading, and start violent protests.

WRONG ANALOGY, moron.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

Fanatical Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:This is a war that will take years. They aren't going to stop. There have been Imams, the world over, that are dedicated to seeing London, Washington, etc. fall under Sha'ia law. Are you game? You ready to see that?

I'm as ready to see that as I am to see the fundamentalist christians running "Jesus Camp" to have the world fall under their Biblical law.

Yes I did just compare fundametalism between religions. We're fortunate that American Christians don't want to use as many guns. I think most are in it for the money anyway.

:withstupid:

Thank you, sir.

RebelKev Wrote:When Christians don't get their way, I.e. elections, they don't started kidnapping, beheading, and start violent protests.

WRONG ANALOGY, moron.

The analogy is at least partially valid. The reason you don't see fundamentalist Christians blowing **** up around here is the FBI would be down their ass so fast it'd make your head spin. In the Middle East, there isn't the same very firmly defined sense of law and order as there is here. I'm willing to wager if you took the Jesus Camp people.... and placed them in the middle of Iraq.... they'd start doing the same crazy **** the extreme Islamics do.

Case and point: abortion clinic bombings. Not even as extreme right as the Jesus Camp folks... but it took no time for the media and law enforcement to be all over them. If that happened in certain areas of the Middle East ... it might not even make the front page.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:The analogy is at least partially valid. The reason you don't see fundamentalist Christians blowing **** up around here is the FBI would be down their ass so fast it'd make your head spin.

This shows your lack of understanding Christianity.

RebelKev Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:The analogy is at least partially valid. The reason you don't see fundamentalist Christians blowing **** up around here is the FBI would be down their ass so fast it'd make your head spin.

This shows your lack of understanding Christianity.

or your want to demonize everything that isn't Christianity

Fanatical Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:The analogy is at least partially valid. The reason you don't see fundamentalist Christians blowing **** up around here is the FBI would be down their ass so fast it'd make your head spin.

This shows your lack of understanding Christianity.

or your want to demonize everything that isn't Christianity

Dude, I have no problem with Muslims. I have a problem with the ones that want to behead me for not converting or want to subject, convert, or kill me. You show me some Christians like that and I'll side with you.


......I'll be waiting.

RebelKev Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:The analogy is at least partially valid. The reason you don't see fundamentalist Christians blowing **** up around here is the FBI would be down their ass so fast it'd make your head spin.

This shows your lack of understanding Christianity.

I understand it quite well. Born and raised a devout Methodist. It's this very understanding, and it's failure to coexist with modern science, that ultimately led me to become deist. I would say it is the Jesus Camp crew that doesn't understand Christianity... but if you have watched The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.... the virtues of Christianity* do, to some degree, feed this extremism.

* (in particular never questioning things.... accepting things on blind faith and firmly holding to those beliefs... this is not only considered virtuous but encouraged)

Chrisitanity can be abused as well
Army of God
We the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary,
including the use of force, to defend innocent human life (born and unborn).
We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the
life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child.
We declare and affirm that if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist
John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are
morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent
human life. Under these conditions, Paul Hill should be acquitted of all charges
against him.


Of course, I doubt they are looking for you specifically. Just as most Sunni Muslims aren't looking to target fellow Sunni. But as you can see even Christianity can be warped. Which the first post in this thread already showed us.

Fanatical Wrote:Chrisitanity can be abused as well
Army of God
We the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary,
including the use of force, to defend innocent human life (born and unborn).
We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the
life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child.
We declare and affirm that if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist
John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are
morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent
human life. Under these conditions, Paul Hill should be acquitted of all charges
against him.


Of course, I doubt they are looking for you specifically. Just as most Sunni Muslims aren't looking to target fellow Sunni. But as you can see even Christianity can be warped. Which the first post in this thread already showed us.

Ok, show me where they're acting on it, then we'll talk.

RebelKev Wrote:

Fanatical Wrote:Chrisitanity can be abused as well
Army of God
We the undersigned, declare the justice of taking all godly action necessary,
including the use of force, to defend innocent human life (born and unborn).
We proclaim that whatever force is legitimate to defend the
life of a born child is legitimate to defend the life of an unborn child.
We declare and affirm that if in fact Paul Hill did kill or wound abortionist
John Britton, and accomplices James Barrett and Mrs. Barrett, his actions are
morally justified if they were necessary for the purpose of defending innocent
human life. Under these conditions, Paul Hill should be acquitted of all charges
against him.


Of course, I doubt they are looking for you specifically. Just as most Sunni Muslims aren't looking to target fellow Sunni. But as you can see even Christianity can be warped. Which the first post in this thread already showed us.

Ok, show me where they're acting on it, then we'll talk.

Um, he just did? Did you think those names were made up?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Jennings_Hill

Incidentally, nobody is saying that Radical Christianists pose the same level of existential threat to civilization that Radical Islamists do. The argument is a narrow one -- that both have been used to justify attacks, even violent ones, against liberal societies (and I mean liberal in the sense of neo-classical liberalism, before anyone gets their panties in a bunch).

Liberals are funny. They talk about tolerence and then spew absolute venum about Christians (see above comments by libs.) They they talk about tolerence, but are the biggest anti-semites in the world (see the current state of Europe).

Christians and Jews cause some misery in this world, as a matter if fact all people do, but on the whole I think that we more than make up for it by:
-Running 67% of the hospitals in this country.
-By running 73% of the long term skilled nursing facilities in this country.
-By running the vast majority of homeless shelters and soup kitchens in this country.
-By educating almost 30% of the children in this country.
-By running some of the largest charites in this country (I believe that Catholic Charities is the largest charity in many major cities, Salvation Army, Lutheran Charities, etc.)
-Not to mention the work that the religious do around the world (Food for the Poor, Inc., Christian Childrens Fund, Feed the Children, etc.)

So if you want Christianity to go away, remember that you lose these things too.

NIUFAN Wrote:Liberals are funny. They talk about tolerence and then spew absolute venum about Christians (see above comments by libs.) They they talk about tolerence, but are the biggest anti-semites in the world (see the current state of Europe).

Christians and Jews cause some misery in this world, as a matter if fact all people do, but on the whole I think that we more than make up for it by:
-Running 67% of the hospitals in this country.
-By running 73% of the long term skilled nursing facilities in this country.
-By running the vast majority of homeless shelters and soup kitchens in this country.
-By educating almost 30% of the children in this country.
-By running some of the largest charites in this country (I believe that Catholic Charities is the largest charity in many major cities, Salvation Army, Lutheran Charities, etc.)
-Not to mention the work that the religious do around the world (Food for the Poor, Inc., Christian Childrens Fund, Feed the Children, etc.)

So if you want Christianity to go away, remember that you lose these things too.

Private charity could do better, and if you're lumping me in w/ that libs label, you're sorely mistaken.