dwr0109 Wrote:And of course...a Pentagon spokesperson would never mistle the public about a war.

I'm not sure if you would NEVER believe anything a Pentagon spokesman said, or if you would believe it if it fit your preconceived notions of what is truth, but in either case, i would like to know who you would trust? Howard Dean? Saddam? Whoopi Goldberg? Dixie Chicks? Micheal Moore? All of the above? None of the above? Is there anyone you would believe if they said something you didn't already agree with? This is a real question, and I think the answer is no.

dwr0109 Wrote:Well unfortunately I'm not privy to classified information from the DoD but common sense and the fact that I'm majoring in Political Science tells me that the members of congress that are up for re-election in '06 are extremely nervous about keeping their seats. Unfortunately that is the #1 concern of every elected official. The public has a negative perception of the war so you best believe there will be troop reductions before the elections regardless of the recomendations of any of the combatant commanders.

IIRC, some limited pullback has been scheduled for October, so I guess your sagacity as a Future Retail Clerk, er, I mean, Political Science major is spot on.

Research project: How many members of Congress majored in Political Science? Just wondering.

dwr0109 Wrote:Well unfortunately I'm not privy to classified information from the DoD but common sense and the fact that I'm majoring in Political Science tells me that the members of congress that are up for re-election in '06 are extremely nervous about keeping their seats. Unfortunately that is the #1 concern of every elected official. The public has a negative perception of the war so you best believe there will be troop reductions before the elections regardless of the recomendations of any of the combatant commanders.

It is not, was not, nor was it ever thought to be "classified" information. We were there to do a job and when it was completed, we would re-deploy back to the states, Germany, or Korea, to which each unit came. As for Congress, they don't get to decide when we return. That is the job of the CinC and the military commanders on the ground. I'm glad you are "majoring" in Poly-Sci. You should know, I also took several Poly-Sci classes. I also hope you know that this doesn't, nor will it ever, make you an expert on foreign policy and it damn sure doesn't mean anything in terms of military strategy.

As for Murtha, I only hope you guys on the left tell him to keep it up. As ccs once said, it only aids the conservatives. Don't always believe in polls. They are, many times, skewed by bloggers from democraticunderground.com, dailykos, and moveon.org. I have seen this firsthand many, many times. There is only one you should be worried about, the election.

One more thing, a conservative talk show host here was called and asked for a poll, "Are you happy with the Bush Administration?" He said, "No". Before he could state his reasons they hung up. Does this mean this Republican is going to vote for a Democrat? Hell no and I hope that's not the type of rhetoric you guys on the left are using to gauge public opinion. Why? He isn't happy with the border security and the appeasing that the administration is doing to the left.

Quote:You're not serious are you? There is every reason to believe that there will be signifigant troop reductions before the '06 midterm elections. To ignore that is taking "drinking the kool-aid" to a whole new level.

It's statements like these that I can't help but laugh at. And they are a perfect illustration for why the left in this country is so out to lunch.

For years we've been hearing, "Bring the troops home!!!!" And now, when conditions on the ground may warrent doing it we hear, "Oh, it's just for politics."

"I voted for it before I voted against it", "Yes I support the troops but not their mission," "The estate tax must stay in place, the rich have an obligation, but I'm hiding all my money in "charitable" foundations so I don't have to pay it." "I'm happy we got Zarqawi but it was all a stunt by the Bushies":wingedeagle:

It's all representative of a failed world view and a perfect illustration as to why those who subscribe to it cannot be allowed to be in a position of power in this country.

What conditions on the ground warrant an immediate troop reduction?

uhmump95 Wrote:What conditions on the ground warrant an immediate troop reduction?

They are a lot better than what you see on the teevee. Using the "played out" analogy, how would we be seen, in terms of crime, if they only used Detroit, New Orleans, and Houston?

Actually that is a legitimate question. I wasn't looking for a conservatice comeback, I was for actual answers.

I know TV only sensationalizes the bad....

uhmump95 Wrote:Actually that is a legitimate question. I wasn't looking for a conservatice comeback, I was for actual answers.

I know TV only sensationalizes the bad....

That wasn't a conservative answer. That was a realistic answer.

lmfao

It's so fun reading listeners of Hannity, Limbaugh, et al. parroting the talking points they've learned from their heroes. Who needs original thought when you've been HANNITIZED?!?! I love listening to him on the way home from work; it's always entertaining to hear the latest spin, and then re-reading it almost verbatim on internet message boards.

lmfao

wvucrazed Wrote:lmfao

It's so fun reading listeners of Hannity, Limbaugh, et al. parroting the talking points they've learned from their heroes. Who needs original thought when you've been HANNITIZED?!?! I love listening to him on the way home from work; it's always entertaining to hear the latest spin, and then re-reading it almost verbatim on internet message boards.

lmfao

My information comes from my job with the DoD. Remind me and I'll take you along to Iraq the next time.

My bet? You're too much of a coward.

RebelKev Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:Actually that is a legitimate question. I wasn't looking for a conservatice comeback, I was for actual answers.

I know TV only sensationalizes the bad....

That wasn't a conservative answer. That was a realistic answer.

No a realistic answer would be we are ready for immediate troop reduction because [insert answer here]

Your answer is regurgitated conservative spin[The media isn't telling the whole truth about Iraq ]. I would like solid information that would show that the latest round of troop reductions are not for political purposes.

uhmump95 Wrote:That wasn't a conservative answer. That was a realistic answer.

No a realistic answer would be we are ready for immediate troop reduction because [insert answer here]

Your answer is regurgitated conservative spin[The media isn't telling the whole truth about Iraq ]. I would like solid information that would show that the latest round of troop reductions are not for political purposes.[/quote]

More and more Iraqi brigades are being stood up and are operational. Most of the country, read that, MOST, isn't experiencing the problems you are seeing on the "teevee". From Mosul to Baghdad to Najaf to Tikrit the Iraqi forces are taking over more and more of the role that the US Military was doing. Are there hotspots? Yes. Tikrit is one, Mosul is one, and Baghdad, being what it is, has a few problems. What you people fail to realize is that it takes longer than 2 f'n years to secure an entire country. If you really want to see out troops home sit down, stfu up, and let them do their jobs.

As for Murtha, etc., every word they say lowers the morale of the troops on the ground. They think, "This bastard voted to send us here, now he says we should leave? What was it all for?"

It does not a DAMN bit of good to call our Marines "murderers" when the investigation is ongoing either. That was ONLY done for political reasons. Don't play f'n politics with the GDamn troops.

RebelKev Wrote:

wvucrazed Wrote:lmfao

It's so fun reading listeners of Hannity, Limbaugh, et al. parroting the talking points they've learned from their heroes. Who needs original thought when you've been HANNITIZED?!?! I love listening to him on the way home from work; it's always entertaining to hear the latest spin, and then re-reading it almost verbatim on internet message boards.

lmfao

My information comes from my job with the DoD. Remind me and I'll take you along to Iraq the next time.

My bet? You're too much of a coward.

My bet? You are deluded by your own arrogance.

RebelKev Wrote:More and more Iraqi brigades are being stood up and are operational. Most of the country, read that, MOST, isn't experiencing the problems you are seeing on the "teevee". From Mosul to Baghdad to Najaf to Tikrit the Iraqi forces are taking over more and more of the role that the US Military was doing. Are there hotspots? Yes. Tikrit is one, Mosul is one, and Baghdad, being what it is, has a few problems.

Now this is the type of answer I am looking for. Thank you for the information.

RebelKev Wrote:What you people fail to realize is that it takes longer than 2 f'n years to secure an entire country. If you really want to see out troops home sit down, stfu up, and let them do their jobs.

I hope you are not referring to me as one of "you people". I am of the belief that starting to remove troops now would be a very big mistake. I did not agree with the invasion of Iraq, but we should make the country as stable as possible before we leave.

RebelKev Wrote:It does not a DAMN bit of good to call our Marines "murderers" when the investigation is ongoing either. That was ONLY done for political reasons. Don't play f'n politics with the GDamn troops.

I agree, but you should also be angry when the Republicans also decide to play politics with the troops (like they are doing by letting the media know that there are discussions about major troop withdrawals when it is getting to be election time).

Quote:Is there anyone you would believe if they said something you didn't already agree with? This is a real question, and I think the answer is no.

I'm extremely impressed that you know me so well after 2 posts on this message board.

My actual political views are libertarian so I'm not the biggest Dean, Moore etc. etc. fan.

Rebel...if you think politics doesn't play a role in military policy, then I want to know what it is you really do for the military. I am far from an expert on military affairs or political affairs for that matter. I actually plan on going to law school after I complete my degree. However, my brother is an Army veteran, my uncle is a former Air Force colonel and alot of my friends are Marines stationed at Camp Lejune. They (the Marines) have all done 3 tours in Iraq and for some reason, don't share your optimism about our progress there.

I agree that we need to try to stabilize the country to prevent it from turning into another Iran or worse. But again...according to the guys I know that have been over there...lets just say they seem to have a slightly different opinion about the capabilities and dedication of the new Iraqi security forces.

dwr0109 Wrote:

Quote:Is there anyone you would believe if they said something you didn't already agree with? This is a real question, and I think the answer is no.

I'm extremely impressed that you know me so well after 2 posts on this message board.

My actual political views are libertarian so I'm not the biggest Dean, Moore etc. etc. fan.

Glad to hear you're not a Moore-man, etc. But you still haven't answered my question. I will repeat..

You imply that that you do not trust the pentagon spokespeople to give you the truth. In fact, it seems you think that if it comes from the Pentagon, it must be a lie. OK, who would you trust to give you the truth? I am looking for individuals or organizations that you think will give you the straight stuff. Newspapers? News anchors? Special interest groups?
Religious leaders? Who do you trust ?

I don't recall implying that if it comes from the pentagon...then it must be a lie. However you seemed to imply that if a pentagon spokesperson said it...then we can go ahead and accept it as the truth. My implication was that, believe it or not, the government including the pentagon, does, at times, "bend" the truth. As for who I "trust" thats a good question. I guess that is dependant on a case by case basis but, call me crazy, a government spokesperson wouldn't rank very high on my list.

uhmump95 Wrote:I agree, but you should also be angry when the Republicans also decide to play politics with the troops (like they are doing by letting the media know that there are discussions about major troop withdrawals when it is getting to be election time).

I question Republicans all the time. I question how they can be serious about the war on terror when the borders are wide open. I question why they won't go after the NY Times when they state that it put us in more danger. However, being an Army veteran and current defense contractor supporting and training the Stryker Brigades, it seems the only party that really supports the military is the Republican party. On other issues, I'm night and day to them, but this is a thread about Murtha, isn't it?

I'm an Independent and former Libertarian, uh. Anyone that knows me, even on this board, knows that.

dwr0109 Wrote:Rebel...if you think politics doesn't play a role in military policy, then I want to know what it is you really do for the military. I am far from an expert on military affairs or political affairs for that matter. I actually plan on going to law school after I complete my degree. However, my brother is an Army veteran, my uncle is a former Air Force colonel and alot of my friends are Marines stationed at Camp Lejune. They (the Marines) have all done 3 tours in Iraq and for some reason, don't share your optimism about our progress there.

When did I say they didn't? Also, there are two sides to playing those politics today, the wrong way and the right way. Calling Marines murderers before the investigation is complete, calling for that bull**** "redeployment" of troops to Okinawa, a place that can't even HANDLE them, and stating the U.S. is more dangerous than f'n Iran and North Korea is, sorry, BAD F'N POLITICS when we have troops ON ThH GROUND. It steels the resolve of our enemy when they see one of our own f'n congressmen saying these things. Do a little research on Somalia and what Bin Laden stated after we pulled out, something many in the military and intel community think escalated the problem with terrorism.

...and by the way, you have your second-hand knowledge of how things are in Iraq and how the troops "really feel" from "friends". I have my knowledge from being there and my time at many, many military installations to include Ft. Wainwright, Ft. Richardson, Ft. Hood, Ft. Monmouth, Ft. Gordon, and Ft. Lewis. I'm involved with this sheet everyday.