Did anybody catch the whole news conference or can link to a transcript of it from last night? I heard part of it on my car radio last night but they went to other topics before it was over. News reports today are very limited.

What I heard before they cut away was basically in two topics:

1. According to the defense lawyers, the DA had the DNA report early in the week, leaked it to reporters, but delayed faxing it to the defense until after 5:00 Friday afternoon, apparently an attempt to manipulate the media and at the same time time deny the defense a chance to do the same. I guess this is just standard tactics in the courts, but if any of you lawyers out there think there is an ethics violation there, please let us know.

2. The second DNA report matched no player DNA to any found on or in the accuser. There is a partial match to 1 player - not enough to identify him exclusively - from fingernails recovered from a trash can. The defense attorney made the points that Q-tips and used kleenex were also in that trashcan, providing lot of opportunities for other DNA to contaminate.

Legal experts quoted inthe paper said that unless he had something more definitive, they didn't see how he could proceed with a prosecution.

Also from the paper, DNA from inside the accuser matched the woman's boyfriend.

Fianlly, I have another question that some of you might know the answer to. How big is that house? What I have seen, it seems small, maybe a 2 bedroom, 1 bath. If in fact it it is a one bath house, and the rape was being done in there for 30 minutes, it seems odd that none of the other 44 beer drinking players never needed to use it.

Guess we'll all know more Monday.

It appears that a third indictment will come out of a grand jury today based on a non-conclusive DNA match (whatever that means).

How can they still be persuing charges on the guy with the alibi? This case sounds like a witch hunt.

Yes, it does.

Could be worse....

Could be a lynching.....

uhmump95 Wrote:Could be worse....

Could be a lynching.....

It does have the ring of that....


Don't get me wrong. If these guys did it, they should have their ying-yangs cut off, but if they didn't and this girl ruined these kids' lives, she should go to jail and lose custody of her kid.

blah Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:Could be worse....

Could be a lynching.....

It does have the ring of that....


if they didn't and this girl ruined these kids' lives, she should go to jail and lose custody of her kid.

Not just the girl. At one point she wanted to drop the whole thing. I think we can give a degree of blame to the DA, for pursuing a bad case for political purposes, and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, for making it a national cause.
I haven't noticed that last two very much lately - maybe they decided it was time to distance themselves from what may well be another Tawana Brawley situation.

At this point I think the most likely outcome is that Nifong will take the case to court (and lose). By sticking with it, he will retain his political base and position himself for a run for higher office. If he dropped it, he would lose his support from the black community. But by "trying his best" he will retain that support.

In any case, Nifong has won what he really wanted - reelection as DA and notoriety to propel him to higher office.

Do you think the media is going to expose these 2 lying *itches for what they are? No sir, they won't say a word about it. They will probably still continue to say they the Duke players are guility, but the prosecutor just couldn't prove it.

The media wants stories fo whites abusing or discriminating against blacks. The media thinks they are going end racism. It gives them a reason for living. Of course the media just make the problem worse. When this story turns out to be untrue, the media will no longer be interested in it because it doesn't fit their agenda.

Endzone2 Wrote:Do you think the media is going to expose these 2 lying *itches for what they are? No sir, they won't say a word about it. They will probably still continue to say they the Duke players are guility, but the prosecutor just couldn't prove it.

The media wants stories fo whites abusing or discriminating against blacks. The media thinks they are going end racism. It gives them a reason for living. Of course the media just make the problem worse. When this story turns out to be untrue, the media will no longer be interested in it because it doesn't fit their agenda.

Actually, I think the media has changed their way of reporting as more information has come out. At this point I think most of the media doesn't believe the girl. Hell, even SportsCenter played the speach from yesterday in its entirety at the beginning of the show, then had a prosecuter on to discuss what kind of options the prosecution has without DNA evidence. She said that without DNA evidence it isn't a slam dunk case but they do have a shot to win. Of course, with the alibis that everyone has, the prosecution will have a heck of a time trying to prove they were in the apartment and were involved with a rape that has no semen/DNA evidence on the body of the "victim".

blah Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:Could be worse....

Could be a lynching.....

It does have the ring of that....

It rings of it, but those young men will have their day in court and if the evidence supports their claims of innocence, they will be set free.

It is not like they whistled at a white girl and ended up dead and floating in the river.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:Not just the girl. At one point she wanted to drop the whole thing. I think we can give a degree of blame to the DA, for pursuing a bad case for political purposes, and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, for making it a national cause.

This story was a national issue way before those two got involved. I remember hearing about this story on the Today show right after the alleged rape occured.

Jackson and Sharpton do as they normally do come in after the fact raise a ruckus and then slip quietly away without causing much of a difference..... My personal view is they are both useless.

uhmump95 Wrote:

blah Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:Could be worse....

Could be a lynching.....

It does have the ring of that....

It rings of it, but those young men will have their day in court and if the evidence supports their claims of innocence, they will be set free.

It is not like they whistled at a white girl and ended up dead and floating in the river.

You're right, of course, it is different in that respect. But what I hear from the black leadership both local and national could be paraphrased as "She's black, and so if she says it happened, it happened, and you better take it seriously because we are tired of black women being ignored and white men going free." Sort of an affirmative action attitude for sexual assault, so that even if no rape occured in this case, sending a few white boys to prison is just a down payment for payback on the thousands of black men unjustly accused, imprisoned, and/or killed for similar or even lesser offenses. That's why I think that Nifong cannot let it go - the local black comunnity will look at it as just another example of justice denied, and he will lose their future support in a district that is 47% black.

what happened to Till was shameful, but there has been 50 years of change since them. We shouldn't be acting the same way now, just with the colors reversed.

If you take out the racial/political aspects, I think this case is dropped a long time ago. Legally, race has nothing to do with it, but as a practical matter, we know that race has everything to do with it. Jury selection will be very important to both sides.

If a hooker goes to some guys house and then tells the police she was raped, the police do nothing about it. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but I know that is what always happens.

In this case you have 2 women who basically are paid for exposing their sexuality although they are not hookers but they are one step away from being hookers. I think what really happened is that they may have been groped by a few drunk guys and called a few unpleasant names. In order to get even with this bunch they said they were raped.

These women also knowingly went into a situation where this might happen, but the media never makes the case about that. In that sense it's the story we've heard from minorities for the past 40 years--they aren't to blame for the situation--white folks are.

Being a stripper or hooker doesn't mean you don't have the same rights as other people, nor does putting oneself in a bad situation mean you have to share the blame, at least in a legal sense. If I walk into a biker bar and end up getting my ass kicked, it is still a crime on their part even though it is bad judgement on my part.

The part I don't like is the part where people keep saying she is a mother supporting her kids by stripping. So what? Being a mother shouldn't give you a free pass, and millions of mothers find a way to support their kids without stripping. It's a choice. Being a working mother and/or a college student should have no part in the decisions of whether a rape was committed or if so, those three indicted are guilty. Where the hell are the children's father(s)? Why does she have to strip to "put food on her childrens table"? I think it is just easy money - why work 40 hours for $300 or $400 takehome when you can make $800 in 45 minutes? People make choices and this is her choice.

This case has been played out in the media so far, and based on the evidence I have seen, without regard to race, wealth, age, or occupation,
it cannot be said beyond a reasonable doubt that there was even a rape, and there is much more reasonable doubt regarding the three indictees. Basically the case is now just the accuser's story. Her best witness, the other stripper, flatly says she knows nothing of any rape. The physical evidence from the rape examination cannot be be attributed to a rape beyond a reasonable doubt because of the sex she had with her boyfriend. The DNA from her body excludes the players. The DNA on the fingernail is not a positive match and in any case comes from a contaminated environment. There is video showing her without those fingernails and with bruises before the alleged rape. Some of the accused have evidence showing they could not have been there. The identification is shaky and tainted. She is 100% sure of Seligman, and he has witnesses and documentation on his side. That casts all the IDs into doubt. And these are just the high points.

Bad case being pursued because political pressure/reasons.

Quote:If a hooker goes to some guys house and then tells the police she was raped, the police do nothing about it. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but I know that is what always happens.

I must be sheltered because I do not hear of this happening very often. But I do believe that hookers have the right to refuse to "do business" with certain individuals. So if a hooker says no and she is forced into sex it is still rape.

Quote:These women also knowingly went into a situation where this might happen, but the media never makes the case about that. In that sense it's the story we've heard from minorities for the past 40 years--they aren't to blame for the situation--white folks are.

This is a typical response you hear from many males. She was looking sexy and made me aroused so it is her fault I raped her. I am sorry that just doesn't fly with me....

Just heard that the accuser is considering hiring a top civil lawyer. Guess this is where the rich vs. poor thing comes in.

Justice may be blind, but she knows where the deep pockets are.

I guess everyone is bored with this, so Nifong has won.

I heard one of the defense attorneys asking for the accuser's cell phone to be turned over to them. They apparently want to see if she made or received any calls during the time she was allegedly being raped. The DA opposes giving them the phone. I wonder why? If she was really raped, how could the cellphone records hurt his case?

Continuing the monologue, I just heard that the DA released documents that show the accuser gave conflicting versions the night of the attack, including a variable number of attackers.

Too quick to throw stones at Duke U
DAVID BROOKS says he, among many, misjudged the lacrosse rape case



12:00 AM CDT on Wednesday, May 31, 2006


Witch hunts go in stages. First frenzy, when everybody damns the souls of people they don't know. Then confusion, as the first wave of contradictory facts comes in. Then deafening silence, as everybody studiously ignores the vicious slanders they uttered during the moment of maximum hysteria.

But now that we know more about the Duke University lacrosse team, simple decency requires that we return to that scandal, if only to correct the slurs that were uttered by millions of people, including me.

We know now that the Duke lacrosse players are not the dumb jocks they were portrayed to be. The team has a 100 percent graduation rate. Over the past five years, 146 members of the team made the Atlantic Coast Conference Academic Honor Roll, twice as many as any other ACC lacrosse team. According to the faculty report written by law professor James E. Coleman and others ? which stands out as the one carefully researched and intellectually honest piece of work in this whole mess ? "The lacrosse team's academic performance generally is one of the best among all Duke athletic teams."

We also know that the lacrosse players are not the amoral goons of popular legend. The current and former black members of the team are "extremely positive" about the support they received. The coach of the women's lacrosse team says relations between the men and women are respectful and supportive.

The male lacrosse players "volunteered for numerous community service activities," the report says, including reading programs, mentoring programs, the Special Olympics and Katrina relief.


We also know, as the Coleman report makes clear, that lacrosse team members drank heavily and that when they did, they behaved irresponsibly. Of the 14 cases of "alcohol-unsafe" behavior reported at Duke in the fall of 2005, three involved lacrosse players.

Team members were caught playing drinking games, publicly urinating and hitting golf balls at buildings. The report notes that their behavior was deplorable, but adds: "Their reported conduct has not involved fighting, sexual assault or harassment, or racist behavior."

We also know that the events of March 13 are anything but clear-cut. In the National Journal, Stuart Taylor has written devastating essays on the weak case of the prosecutor, Mike Nifong. Citing the lack of DNA evidence, the seemingly exculpatory digital photos and the testimony of a taxi driver, Mr. Taylor estimates that there is an 85 percent chance the players are innocent.

Now, with the distance of time, a few things are clear. There may have been a rape that night, but it didn't grow out of a culture of depravity, and it can't be explained by the sweeping sociological theories that were tossed about with such wild abandon.

Furthermore, when you look at the hyperpoliticized assertions made by Jesse Jackson, Houston Baker and dozens of activists and professors, you see how mighty social causes like the civil rights movement, feminism and the labor movement have spun off a series of narrow social prejudices among the privileged class.

The members of the lacrosse team were male, mostly white and mostly members of the suburban bourgeois middle class. For many on the tenured left, bashing people like that is all that's left of their once-great activism.

And maybe the saddest part of the whole reaction is not the rush to judgment at the start, but the unwillingness by so many to face the truth now that the more complicated reality has emerged.

David Brooks is a columnist for The New York Times.

Nice article.

Would be great if more papers wrote pieces like this. However, 99% of the time it is kill someone's reputation to sell papers and worry about the facts later. We can always print a retraction on page 12 tomorrow.

blah Wrote:Nice article.

Would be great if more papers wrote pieces like this. However, 99% of the time it is kill someone's reputation to sell papers and worry about the facts later. We can always print a retraction on page 12 tomorrow.

or never.