It appears that the second stripper is somewhat changing her original story from I don't think anything happened to those boys (but I don't know which ones) are guilty. Also there is this little gem...

Quote:Roberts also has solicited the help of a New York public relations firm on "how to spin this to my advantage."

"Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," Roberts wrote in an e-mail to 5W Public Relations obtained by FOX News. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage. I am determined not to let any negative publicity about my life overtake me. I'm so confused as to who to talk to for relevant advice and I hope that you can return my e-mail. If you cannot help, do you know of any names and numbers I can call?"

Second Stripper: Something May Have Happened at Duke Lacrosse Party

Looking for fame? Could be, but all she is saying is that she wants to spin this in a positive light for herself. As for changing her story, I think she is guilty of doing what everybody else is, judging this case before they have all the facts.

"it's my honest-to-god impression'" Wonder how much value impressions are on the witness stand? I have an impression too...

It's not in the linked story, but in another story I saw today, it was reported that she (the second stripper) got some special treatment on another charge, which allowed her to post bond without paying the 15% fee. The treatment was OK'd by the judge after the DA said he had no objection.

edit: The charge is a probation violation on a 2001 conviction for embezzling.I wonder if the dancing or being out that late was the violation. She was charged with the violation 8 days after the alleged rape.

In a related story, I heard that there has been one murder in Durham this year, and the the defendent in that case was released on $50,000 bond - 1/8 of what each rape defendent put up.

From http://czabe.com/daily/archives/2006/04/...ccuse.html

1. Duke LAX Accuser

Here?s one little nugget I?ll bet you a dollar you have NOT heard about, in the much hyped Duke Lacrosse case.

You may know that the alleged victim has what some media outlets called simply ?a checkered past.? They either did not want to be specific, or were intentionally hiding the facts to push an agenda.

Well here are the facts.

?In 2002, she was working at a topless club in Durham, when she stole a cab driver's car keys while giving him a lap dance, according to a police report. When the driver went to the bathroom, she drove off in the cab and led police on a lengthy car chase. In the process, she smashed into a patrol car and attempted to drive through a fence, but was eventually arrested after her car got a flat tire. She tested at 0.19, more than twice the alcohol limit.?

Wow! Holy ****, Batman! How come nobody seems to want to bring that up when it comes to assessing whether she?s being truthful?

Meanwhile, there are some people who are simply going to play the race angle no matter what. Like this guy quoted in a recent article:

"This poor girl won't never get a fair shake in Durham. The law here is to keep us in check - it doesn't apply to the people over there," a 28-year-old black resident said last week, pointing toward the leafy faux gothic campus.

Well, I don?t know about that. The woman seemed to get MORE than a ?fair shake? on that pesky little grand theft auto thing. She pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts of larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and driving while impaired.

Misdemeanor.

Right. And she won?t get a ?fair shake? in Durham because of race. Riiiigggghhht. Like Durham, N.C. has suddenly become Johannesburg in 1976.

Uh huh.

And what about her ?friend?s? credibility? I?d say pretty damn sketchy too. For starters, she called 911 only to say that somebody was hollering racial slurs at her friend. Never said word one about ?rape.?

Then, it turns out that she?s got, um? how shall we say this?. a ?checkered past? of her own.

Roberts, 31, was arrested on March 22 ? eight days after the party ? on a probation violation from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a photofinishing company in Durham where she was a payroll specialist, according to documents obtained by the AP.

Topping it all off, is that she sent the following e-mail to the PR firm that reps Lil? Kim. Appropriate, since Lil? Kim is now in the big house for a year and a day. (But she didn?t snitch!)

"Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," Roberts said in an email to 5W Public Relations. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage. I am determined not to let any negative publicity about my life overtake me. I'm so confused as to who to talk to for relevant advice and I hope that you can return my e-mail. If you cannot help, do you know of any names and numbers I can call?"

Incredible.

But you won?t hear much, or anything at all, about this, from most mainstream media outlets. Why? Because it?s PC these days to never, EVER, even HINT at examining the possible motives and credibility of a RAPE victim.

How dare you!

Well, if I?m a Duke Lacrosse player, here?s how I dare to do so.

You?ve got a DNA test that went 0-46.

The woman tabbed one ?attacker? that has hard proof he was out of the house 15 minutes after they arrived.

No eye witnesses.

Conflicting post-incident statements from the women.

The D.A. is running for re-election in a District which is 80% democrat, so there?s no reason to be even handed about this.

And yeah, sorry to be such a jerk, but these two women are CRIMINALS! Sure, they could be TRUTHFUL criminals in this case.

But it?s her word against theirs. How good do you think her word is?

End of rant.

http://czabe.com/daily/archives/2006/04/...ccuse.html

1. Duke LAX Accuser

Here?s one little nugget I?ll bet you a dollar you have NOT heard about, in the much hyped Duke Lacrosse case.

You may know that the alleged victim has what some media outlets called simply ?a checkered past.? They either did not want to be specific, or were intentionally hiding the facts to push an agenda.

Well here are the facts.

?In 2002, she was working at a topless club in Durham, when she stole a cab driver's car keys while giving him a lap dance, according to a police report. When the driver went to the bathroom, she drove off in the cab and led police on a lengthy car chase. In the process, she smashed into a patrol car and attempted to drive through a fence, but was eventually arrested after her car got a flat tire. She tested at 0.19, more than twice the alcohol limit.?

Wow! Holy ****, Batman! How come nobody seems to want to bring that up when it comes to assessing whether she?s being truthful?

Meanwhile, there are some people who are simply going to play the race angle no matter what. Like this guy quoted in a recent article:

"This poor girl won't never get a fair shake in Durham. The law here is to keep us in check - it doesn't apply to the people over there," a 28-year-old black resident said last week, pointing toward the leafy faux gothic campus.

Well, I don?t know about that. The woman seemed to get MORE than a ?fair shake? on that pesky little grand theft auto thing. She pleaded guilty to misdemeanor counts of larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and driving while impaired.

Misdemeanor.

Right. And she won?t get a ?fair shake? in Durham because of race. Riiiigggghhht. Like Durham, N.C. has suddenly become Johannesburg in 1976.

Uh huh.

And what about her ?friend?s? credibility? I?d say pretty damn sketchy too. For starters, she called 911 only to say that somebody was hollering racial slurs at her friend. Never said word one about ?rape.?

Then, it turns out that she?s got, um? how shall we say this?. a ?checkered past? of her own.

Roberts, 31, was arrested on March 22 ? eight days after the party ? on a probation violation from a 2001 conviction for embezzling $25,000 from a photofinishing company in Durham where she was a payroll specialist, according to documents obtained by the AP.

Topping it all off, is that she sent the following e-mail to the PR firm that reps Lil? Kim. Appropriate, since Lil? Kim is now in the big house for a year and a day. (But she didn?t snitch!)

"Although I am no celebrity and just an average citizen, I've found myself in the center of one of the biggest stories in the country," Roberts said in an email to 5W Public Relations. "I'm worried about letting this opportunity pass me by without making the best of it and was wondering if you had any advice as to how to spin this to my advantage. I am determined not to let any negative publicity about my life overtake me. I'm so confused as to who to talk to for relevant advice and I hope that you can return my e-mail. If you cannot help, do you know of any names and numbers I can call?"

Incredible.

But you won?t hear much, or anything at all, about this, from most mainstream media outlets. Why? Because it?s PC these days to never, EVER, even HINT at examining the possible motives and credibility of a RAPE victim.

How dare you!

Well, if I?m a Duke Lacrosse player, here?s how I dare to do so.

You?ve got a DNA test that went 0-46.

The woman tabbed one ?attacker? that has hard proof he was out of the house 15 minutes after they arrived.

No eye witnesses.

Conflicting post-incident statements from the women.

The D.A. is running for re-election in a District which is 80% democrat, so there?s no reason to be even handed about this.

And yeah, sorry to be such a jerk, but these two women are CRIMINALS! Sure, they could be TRUTHFUL criminals in this case.

But it?s her word against theirs. How good do you think her word is?

End of rant.

Quote:Well here are the facts.

?In 2002, she was working at a topless club in Durham

Meaning she most likely worked at "Brothers 3", once THE popular underground black strippa club in Durham -- before the Durham PD shut it down a couple of years ago.

Typically, women who strip at clubs like this are out to turn a buck.

Seems to me this was nothing more than a overblown misunderstanding over the $800 vs. the amount of time the ladies danced at the party. Things got out of hand, words were exchanged -- some of those words not so flattering to black folks -- and the accuser locked herself in the bathroom.

0-for-46 on the DNA test indicates that NONE of the LAX players were in the bathroom with the accuser.

MongoSlade Wrote:

Quote:Well here are the facts.

?In 2002, she was working at a topless club in Durham

Meaning she most likely worked at "Brothers 3", once THE popular underground black strippa club in Durham -- before the Durham PD shut it down a couple of years ago.

Typically, women who strip at clubs like this are out to turn a buck.

I'd think that women who work at any strip club are out to turn a buck.

I think people that work are out to turn a buck. ;-)

OptimisticOwl Wrote:In a related story, I heard that there has been one murder in Durham this year, and the the defendent in that case was released on $50,000 bond - 1/8 of what each rape defendent put up.

Maybe that is because the defendants are a "flight" risk. Not sure about that, but I thought I heard that is why the indictments were sealed as well.

blah Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:In a related story, I heard that there has been one murder in Durham this year, and the the defendent in that case was released on $50,000 bond - 1/8 of what each rape defendent put up.

Maybe that is because the defendants are a "flight" risk. Not sure about that, but I thought I heard that is why the indictments were sealed as well.

Maybe. And maybe the moon is made of cheese. The murder defendent is a gangbanger - maybe they are more likely than college students to show up for trial.

Another detail of the LaX case that bothers me - the police were called to make the accusser get out of the other stripper's car. If she was concerned about her friends rape and physical abuse, why is she focused on getting her out of her car instead of getting her help?

and another - the DNA tests. I thought further testing was usually to NARROW a candidate pool - not expand it. if they had, say, 7 of 46 that might be a match, then further testing to narrow that to 3 makes sense. But if they are 0 for 46, further testing to expand that number doesn't seem reasonable.

and another - she identifies one of the guys as the "little skinny one" Skinny, maybe, but at 6'3", 195, he is hardly little.

Dr. Torch forgot to mention in the probation hearing for the other stripper that she was given financially favorable treatment with the OK of the DA. Just about the time her story started changing.

I wonder if after the election, the DA will ease off and let it die a natural death. i bet he regrets being so hasty and public in his quest to get votes, as it is looking bad for him now. The national race activists made this a lot more public than he wanted, i think.

There are basically two questions to be answered here:

1. Was there a rape?
2. and if so, do they have the correct men indicted?

Until they can show me a positive drug test for Rohypnol, I think the answer to number 1 is very doubtful. I presume that a standard part of a rape kit - especially for a "victim" labeled as passed out drunk - would include a BA test and a screening for date rape drugs.

And if they can prove number one, I am still doubtful that have the correct men indicted. Too much exculpatory evidence.

Quote:I wonder if after the election, the DA will ease off and let it die a natural death.

You're all over it, Owl. That's exactly what's going to happen.

Quote:i bet he regrets being so hasty and public in his quest to get votes, as it is looking bad for him now.

His(Nifong's) hasty and public comments were an effort to gain the support of black voters in Derm (how we spell it in Raleigh) -- yet another example of Democrats preying on or pimping blacks just for their vote. At the very least, he's eliminated the black candidate (Bishop) from the DA race next month.

He knows he has no case but he had to "appear" as if he was looking out for blacks in Derm, or they go vote for Freda Black or don't vote at all -- both scenarios which are bad for Nifong.

Quote:The national race activists made this a lot more public than he wanted, i think.

Someone higher up than him had to have told him to shut his alligator mouth as it was getting ahead of his jaybird ass. (y'all like that Smokey and the Bandit II reference?)

OptimisticOwl Wrote:

blah Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:In a related story, I heard that there has been one murder in Durham this year, and the the defendent in that case was released on $50,000 bond - 1/8 of what each rape defendent put up.

Maybe that is because the defendants are a "flight" risk. Not sure about that, but I thought I heard that is why the indictments were sealed as well.

Maybe. And maybe the moon is made of cheese. The murder defendent is a gangbanger - maybe they are more likely than college students to show up for trial.

Another detail of the LaX case that bothers me - the police were called to make the accusser get out of the other stripper's car. If she was concerned about her friends rape and physical abuse, why is she focused on getting her out of her car instead of getting her help?

and another - the DNA tests. I thought further testing was usually to NARROW a candidate pool - not expand it. if they had, say, 7 of 46 that might be a match, then further testing to narrow that to 3 makes sense. But if they are 0 for 46, further testing to expand that number doesn't seem reasonable.

and another - she identifies one of the guys as the "little skinny one" Skinny, maybe, but at 6'3", 195, he is hardly little.

Dr. Torch forgot to mention in the probation hearing for the other stripper that she was given financially favorable treatment with the OK of the DA. Just about the time her story started changing.

I wonder if after the election, the DA will ease off and let it die a natural death. i bet he regrets being so hasty and public in his quest to get votes, as it is looking bad for him now. The national race activists made this a lot more public than he wanted, i think.

There are basically two questions to be answered here:

1. Was there a rape?
2. and if so, do they have the correct men indicted?

Until they can show me a positive drug test for Rohypnol, I think the answer to number 1 is very doubtful. I presume that a standard part of a rape kit - especially for a "victim" labeled as passed out drunk - would include a BA test and a screening for date rape drugs.

And if they can prove number one, I am still doubtful that have the correct men indicted. Too much exculpatory evidence.

I wasn't defending the fact that the murder suspect had bail 1/8th that of a suspected raper had. Just presenting one possible reason.

I don't like the fact that race or socioeconomic factors were even brought up in this trial. It should just be the facts of the case.

BTW, it appears that one of the suspects isn't so squeaky clean either....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12467091/

Quote:Duke suspect also accused of 'gay' assault
Finnerty accused of taunting, beating man in separate case in November

blah Wrote:I don't like the fact that race or socioeconomic factors were even brought up in this trial. It should just be the facts of the case.

BTW, it appears that one of the suspects isn't so squeaky clean either....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12467091/

Quote:Duke suspect also accused of 'gay' assault
Finnerty accused of taunting, beating man in separate case in November

I agree with your first statement 100%.

As to the previous legal troubles of the "little skinny one", I think they have as much bearing on this case as the previous legal troubles of the accuser and the other stripper. Their pasts do not mean there was no rape, but they do call in question their characters. His past does not mean he committed rape, but it also calls into question his character. In any case, what does Finnerty's past say about Seligman?

OptimisticOwl Wrote:As to the previous legal troubles of the "little skinny one", I think they have as much bearing on this case as the previous legal troubles of the accuser and the other stripper. Their pasts do not mean there was no rape, but they do call in question their characters. His past does not mean he committed rape, but it also calls into question his character. In any case, what does Finnerty's past say about Seligman?

I'm sure that there is no connection and it appears to me from the limited facts in which I have seen that Seligman might be the most innocent and believable of all 4.

I had just seen the article about Finnerty and posted because someone else had posted something about the pasts of the 2 accusers. As you said, none of that should matter when it comes to determining if a rape occurred or not, but should be used in determining the credibility of both the accuser and the accused.