Beard, I am glad that you treat homosexuals nicely when they are in front of you. The problem is the contempt that you have for them in your heart. You smile at them yet you loathe their behavior. Seems like an odd position.

I actually agree with this: "What good does homosexual marriage do anybody? Does it promote the continuance of the species? Does it bring glory to God? Does it go along with the laws of nature?". No it doesn't bring glory to God or go with the laws of nature. I honestly think that homosexuality is a sort of genetic defect. Those that are gay, typically don't reproduce and their genes therefore aren't passed on. But we don't discriminate on the basis of genetics. I don't think that gays should be descriminated against in marriage. If marriage was only a religious concept, then the various religions can make their own decisions. It is not a religious concept in the USA. Therefore descrimination should not be tolerated.

GrayBeard Wrote:I am a Conservative Christian, otherwise know as a right wing religous fanatic or any other deragatory phrase you can come up with, and I don't hate gays. You could (I know you won't) ask some of the gays that I work with if they thought I hated them, and you would get a no. I find homosexuality detestable, but I don't hate those that are taking part in it.

Exactly. Whenever I run into someone that's gay, I treat them with the utmost respect as I would any other person. I think what they're doing is wrong, but I show them the respect any human being deserves.

For BigDog to make a sweeping generalization like "Conservative Christians hate gays" is despicable. He doesn't know me, you, or a lot of other conservative Christians who love the sinner but hate the sin, and yet he casts judgement on us. I don't appreciate being told I hate a group of people that I have treated with nothing but respect and compassion.

For BigDog to make a sweeping generalization like "Conservative Christians hate gays" is despicable. He doesn't know me, you, or a lot of other conservative Christians who love the sinner but hate the sin, and yet he casts judgement on us. I don't appreciate being told I hate a group of people that I have treated with nothing but respect and compassion.[/quote]

Discrimination is hateful IMO. The whole hate the sin, not the sinner thing is a really lame arguement. If you don't hate the sinner, do you think gays should be allowed in heaven? How would you feel if they were? My guess is that you wouldn't want to see them there at all. Especially if they were married.

One more hateful trait - The whole "family values" junk that comes up during elections. You all claim to cast your vote on family values. To me that says, my family (Republican) is better than your family and we have better family values because we voted for King George. I find that to be a very hateful position. In other words, if you had "family values" you would vote for George too.

Should gays be allowed into heaven? Why not? I know gays who I truly believe are Christians. They just struggle with homosexuality. We all have things we struggle with. But if they've given their life to God, then yes, they will go to heaven.

You're right, I do vote based on values. I find a lot of what the hard left supports to be disgusting, or as you would say, "hateful". I find the genocide of unborn babies hateful. I find the left trying to push God out of society hateful. I find the left spitting on our most sacred beliefs as hateful.

If that makes me hateful in your eyes, then so be it.

GDawgs88 Wrote:Should gays be allowed into heaven? Why not? I know gays who I truly believe are Christians. They just struggle with homosexuality. We all have things we struggle with. But if they've given their life to God, then yes, they will go to heaven.

You're right, I do vote based on values. I find a lot of what the hard left supports to be disgusting, or as you would say, "hateful". I find the genocide of unborn babies hateful. I find the left trying to push God out of society hateful. I find the left spitting on our most sacred beliefs as hateful.

If that makes me hateful in your eyes, then so be it.

If that's how you feel about gays then that is fine. I can live with that but I wish you would stop desciminating against them.

Second, America was founded as a place where one can practice their beliefs as they choose. That is exactly what I think America is today. You have the choice to do whatever you want so long as you don't infringe on anyone else's beliefs (within reason of course). The unfortunate reality is that not all of us think that abortion is genocide. That is an issue that I really don't like to get into because there really is no middle ground. On the other hand, noone is trying to push religion out of society. From my point of view, fanatics like yourself are trying to impose your views on everyone else. I think most on the left/middle think that religion is great until the religious start to impose their will on others. That is what is happening now.

For the record I really don't give a flying crap about gay marriage. I think it's an overblown issue and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it were legalized. Marriage is only real in God's eyes. The state can tell you you're married, but I believe God is ultimately the final judge of that.

Secondly, I am a fanatic, but I do not try to impose my beliefs on people. There are things that I think are wrong and should be abolished, such as abortion, but it doesn't have to do with me being a Christian. It has to do with me believing it is morally wrong. Just like murder is morally wrong. I believe it should be illegal and I would feel that way even if I weren't a Christian.

GDawgs88 Wrote:For the record I really don't give a flying crap about gay marriage. I think it's an overblown issue and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it were legalized. Marriage is only real in God's eyes. The state can tell you you're married, but I believe God is ultimately the final judge of that.

Secondly, I am a fanatic, but I do not try to impose my beliefs on people. There are things that I think are wrong and should be abolished, such as abortion, but it doesn't have to do with me being a Christian. It has to do with me believing it is morally wrong. Just like murder is morally wrong. I believe it should be illegal and I would feel that way even if I weren't a Christian.

Sounds good. That is what you believe and I have to respect that and also respectfully disagree about abortion = murder. Good way to end this thread I think.

I agree.

BigDog Wrote:

GDawgs88 Wrote:For the record I really don't give a flying crap about gay marriage. I think it's an overblown issue and I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if it were legalized. Marriage is only real in God's eyes. The state can tell you you're married, but I believe God is ultimately the final judge of that.

Secondly, I am a fanatic, but I do not try to impose my beliefs on people. There are things that I think are wrong and should be abolished, such as abortion, but it doesn't have to do with me being a Christian. It has to do with me believing it is morally wrong. Just like murder is morally wrong. I believe it should be illegal and I would feel that way even if I weren't a Christian.

Sounds good. That is what you believe and I have to respect that and also respectfully disagree about abortion = murder. Good way to end this thread I think.

I see you learned how to use the quote key....Good job. Now this thread wasn't a complete waste of time.

BigDog Wrote:For BigDog to make a sweeping generalization like "Conservative Christians hate gays" is despicable. He doesn't know me, you, or a lot of other conservative Christians who love the sinner but hate the sin, and yet he casts judgement on us. I don't appreciate being told I hate a group of people that I have treated with nothing but respect and compassion.

Discrimination is hateful IMO. The whole hate the sin, not the sinner thing is a really lame arguement. If you don't hate the sinner, do you think gays should be allowed in heaven? How would you feel if they were? My guess is that you wouldn't want to see them there at all. Especially if they were married.

One more hateful trait - The whole "family values" junk that comes up during elections. You all claim to cast your vote on family values. To me that says, my family (Republican) is better than your family and we have better family values because we voted for King George. I find that to be a very hateful position. In other words, if you had "family values" you would vote for George too.

Big Dog, you may want to slow down just a bit.

First of all you are jumping topics like crazy. Second of all, you are making wild accusations about people that you don't know, and finally you are doing the exact thing that you are condemning everybody else for (desciriminating).

Yes, I voted for George Bush. Yes I think he has good "Family Values", but I have been dissappointed in some other areas. Do the republicans have the family values thing cornered? Absoluteley not. Do I hate gays? No. Do I have contempt for them in my heart? No. Are Republicans better than Democrats? No, but many of the republicans line up closer to my view than do the democrats? Do I always vote republican? No

I tried to answer most of your comments/questions, but I am sure I missed some.

BigDog Wrote:Sweet use of the "Clinton Did It Too" arguement. I find it amusing when wingers defend themselves by citing the actions of their most hated enemy.

If Clinton did it too, I still think it is wrong.

I guess that whole brining integrity and honor to the WH was just a joke or the changing the tone of washington promise also.

GrayBeard Wrote:

JTiger Wrote:

GrayBeard Wrote:

JTiger Wrote:

Cajunman02 Wrote:"I'd rather go hunting with Dick Cheney, than ride in Ted Kennedy's car"

Poor taste

Why?

I can't believe I have to explain this to you.

Is it poor taste because it attacks the democrats poster boy..Ted Kennedy?

Also, is it poor taste to turn memorial services into political rallies?

Why do people on the right wing like to claim that Ted Kennedy is the Democrat's poster boy and Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, and Jesse Jackson are taken seriously by Black people, when there is no evidence to support it, and they have been told repeatedly that it is not true?

blah Wrote:

BigDog Wrote:

Greybeard Wrote:Is it poor taste because it attacks the democrats poster boy..Ted Kennedy?

Also, is it poor taste to turn memorial services into political rallies?

Hey Grey, how about your gay hatin' wingnut friends who turn funerals into protests?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/21/funeral...index.html

Only a complete moron would link those protesters to conservative Christians. Give me a break. Were there any Republican leaders there? In case you forgot the people who turned Mrs. King's funeral into a circus were democratic leaders not left-wing nutjobs. That is the big difference.

Maybe you should get a few more posts under your belt before you dive into the deep end, rookie.... :owned:

P.S. You might want to read the article before posting....

Quote:Shirley Phelps-Roper, a daughter of Fred Phelps (the pastor) and an attorney for the Topeka, Kansas-based church, said neither state laws nor the Patriot Guard can silence their message that God killed the soldiers because they fought for a country that embraces homosexuals.

"The scriptures are crystal clear that when God sets out to punish a nation, it is with the sword. An IED is just a broken-up sword," Phelps-Roper said. "Since that is his weapon of choice, our forum of choice has got to be a dead soldier's funeral."

The church, Westboro Baptist Church, is not affiliated with a larger denomination and is made up mostly of Fred Phelps' extended family members.

So what? Do his ideas regarding gays not match up with those of Conservative Christians'? Thus, he you. OK, that's a stretch, but if you guys want to paint with a broad brush, then so can we.

No, I don't remember anyone (excluding Pat Robertson and cult members like this) that said gays should be killed or that we hate gays or that troops are being killed because of gays.

Don't go down the slippery slope, Soph, you are better than that.

The point in my post was, can you really call this guy a pastor or a "Conservative Christian", when his "church" is nothing but his own family? Doesn't seem credible. I'll agree that I don't like the act of homosexuality, but I am not blaming, the deaths of soldiers in Iraq on that. I like to blame the democrats for that.... ;-)