Guys, I really do not have a dog in this fight, but RF was correct in calling Herndon on the racial thing. It was obvious to anyone who would look at it in an objective light. We all know who he was talking about. You may spin it any way you wish, but his intent was clear. In my eyes, anyway.
I am as conservative as anyone on this board, but I came within an inch of editing that out. I agree, for the most part, that welfare is an abused system. But I am also willing to look at both sides of the coin. There are many people who need welfare. I would rather give a mother of 4 kids money to stay home and try to raise her kids, than make her work and let the kids run free. I do know that there are many more whites on welfare than blacks. How those numbers stack up in proportion to population, I don't know. I do know that there are many people who are dependant on welfare, and many who abuse it. I was glad to see the new laws implemented restricting the never ending handout of monies. I don't know all the answers, but I do know the system has developed into something it was not intended to be. For now, it is the best we have. It will never change as long as we have as large a group of people who depend on it as we now have.

I'll keep this short and sweet and echo what BPD said...

Quote:I have no problem paying taxes for the protection of our country, just not to support crack heads in the inner cities with 4 kids, or midnight basketball.

Quote:You, sir, are a racist.

By simply implying that all crack heads, inner city kids and midnight ballers are minorities, you're as much of a racist as Herdon (no offense, there, Herdon :laugh: )

And seeing RF spouting about "chiggers", dark people, giving money to undeserving black people and all that BS, it looks to me like he has a bit of racism in him too. Pot -> kettle -> black.



<!--EDIT|JoltinJacket|Mar 31 2003, 05:32 PM-->

I do know this: the first liberal pansy-****** like Rochester that ever plays the race card to my face is going to get sued so bad his @sshole will be sucking buttermilk. I've had it with these liberals who think that no matter what the argument is, they can always play the race card and that will end the discussion. I'm actually looking forward to that day it happens.

Big Pimpin Deac Wrote:Wait a minute. Let me get this straight, Rochester. Are you trying to say that no Caucasian people live in the inner city? No Caucasian people are crackheads? And, no Caucasian people play basketball at midnight? Who's the racist here? Look in the mirror, tough guy!

Well I was in NYC today... just got back... and at least 60% of the hobos/crackhead-looking/bums we saw were white.

Rochester started the stereotypes. Maybe he is the racist here.

Hillsborough has an inner city.

I'd say 99% of the slums in H'boro are white.

FWIW...

Sometimes you guys are so narrow minded it is beyond anything I have ever seen.

rickheel Wrote:Sometimes you guys are so narrow minded it is beyond anything I have ever seen.

Who?

Quote:I do know this: the first liberal pansy-****** like Rochester that ever plays the race card to my face is going to get sued so bad his @sshole will be sucking buttermilk.

I know a thing or two about libel and slander law. Good luck. You would likely need it, if the circumstances resembled this one.

Quote:I've had it with these liberals who think that no matter what the argument is, they can always play the race card and that will end the discussion.

Go back and look at the post that sent this thread into this 90 degree turn. I made it clear my view that opposing welfare on its face doesn't make one racist. How, then, did I shut down debate?

BPD, the who were the folks on this thread who were calling RF a racist after he pointed out the obvious reference made by Herndon. Inner City crack heads and midnight basketball is about as obvious as it gets in my book.

I have no dog in this fight, as I am the biggest of fence-sitters when it comes to politics. But, I don't see how anyone here can pretend what Herdon meant in his post -- all we can know is that he meant that he doesn't like welfare.

Rochester mentioned that there are probably no true "inner cities" in West Virginia... well -- even if that were the case -- I can see how it would only prove Herdon's point further. Seems to me that his entire point was the he doesn't want to have to pay for someone he doesn't know who lives half the country away in NY or LA or Chicago or some other big city when he is (conceivably) in small-town rural West Virginia.

And, I'm not saying that I agree with Herdon on that issue, because I really don't agree with him 100 percent. But, that's not my point here. My point is that he should be able to give his opinion about welfare and give a couple of examples of why he doesn't like it without having charges of racism thrown at him.

-JD



<!--EDIT|JD Heel|Apr 1 2003, 10:19 AM-->

rickheel Wrote:BPD, the who were the folks on this thread who were calling RF a racist after he pointed out the obvious reference made by Herndon. Inner City crack heads and midnight basketball is about as obvious as it gets in my book.

rick,

We can infer and imply all day long. But at the end of the day, all we have is Herdon saying something about inner city people, crackheads, and midnight basketball players. He didn't use a racial slur, he didn't say "black" or "African-American" or anything else that would single out a particular race of people. You see, I grew up in Winston-Salem. And, anyone from North Carolina knows Winston is well-known for it's ghettos and bad neighborhoods. Well, some of my best friends from high school grew up in these neighborhoods and were white. In fact, I can remember playing basketball late at night with them in the community park when we were kids and had nothing else to do. And, I have seen my fair share of white loser drug-addicts.

My beef is with the fact that liberals are so quick to play the race card, even though nothing definitive has been said or done. I understand you are playing Devil's Advocate and that's cool.

RochesterFalcon Wrote:I know a thing or two about libel and slander law. Good luck. You would likely need it, if the circumstances resembled this one.

I know a thing or two about it, also. That's why I'm waiting for someone like you to try it.

Basically it works like this there are more Whites on welfare nation wide than Blacks but if you break it down into % of said population then there is a greater % of Blacks on welfare then Whites (Just because of the great # of whites to blacks in over-all population)...

RF to say there are no "inner cities" in WV just because there are no cities the size of DC and NY there is just plain dumb yet you take it one step futher to say you did a GOOGLE search and attempted to use that as your end all comment.

There is no doubt when I read Herndon post that the first thing that came to mind was blacks. But I live in the DC area so there are a lot of blacks here. Go to WV sometime and head up into the mountains the bums on the streets of DC live better than most of them folks.

RICKHEEL I have to totally disagree with you on your comment about allowing a Mom with 4 kids to stay home and collect welfare. See that is the problem they (meaning welfare folks) just keep spitting out pups continously so they can collect more and more welfare.

They used to give you more money every month for every kid you had if you were a member of the Military well they stopped doing that once they realized people were just having kids as a way to get a raise.

Welfare does the same thing and it is in serious need of a total overhaul...

Reform will not be enough it needs to be torn down and rebuilt.

I have no ill-will towards anyone who uses the services in a time of need it is the ones who have lived on it for their entire lives that need to be dropped from the program.

While I was in the Navy (and most enlisted E-5 and below) qualify for food stamps. I never went and got them cause I was too proud but when my kids were born I did go on W.I.C. (Women, Infants and Children) for their first year of life. I was supporting a family of 4 on about 18K/year.. They tried to get us to take Medicaid even though I was in the Military so I did not need it but they pushed pretty hard. After my daughter turned 1 and same with my son we never went back to get anything else. I feel it is cases like this that the system was designed for. Sadly enough too many work the system for as long as possible including getting Disability and the like as adults.

The only way to make the welfare system perfect, IMO, is to have someone to watch over every candidate for welfare... to make sure they don't really have a job... couldn't get a job... etc... but this isn't possible. I don't think there's a great way to change welfare, but then again, the system is abused daily. One thing that I will hate, however, is in 2 years, when I start paying taxes, a portion of that money will go to crackheads who don't wanna get help, lazy bums, or drug dealers with no legal jobs. I would much rather take that money myself and give it to better organizations like Habitat, Make a Wish etc...

Doc, see, that is the catch-22 here. She stays home and (lets hope) makes sure they are in school, doing their homework, going to church, etc. She makes sure to cross all the t's and dot all the i's. Unfortunately, it does not always happen that way. She is working, who is watching the kids. There is a huge amount of money spent somewhere. I just think it is the parents responsibility to make sure the kids are doing what they are supposed to be doing. We cannot afford to pay for daycare and most people say we should not have to. I dont have the answers. I do know that until there is a reason for parents to make sure their kids are under control, we will have the problem. Maybe promise to pay for an education if the kid stays clean. I believe the answer to most problems for the poor is education.

Well Rick I'm sure there are cases like that. However, I think it's rare for a woman to be in a situation THAT impossible to live. For example... I have a friend who has 9 siblings and one mom. She works 2 jobs, is involved in tons of community groups, etc... and she can support the family. I respect her so much because she whips her kids into shape and makes sure they work their asses off in school. My friend is one of the most well rounded and good people I know, and if only every mom with lots of kids was like his, there would be very little need for welfare.

You are dead right about education. If someone gets their ****** in gear with a good education, there will be little financial problems.

RF, I have been out of town and not able to respond to your usuall name calling. You can infer all you want from my comments, you don't know me and I thank GOD for that. First off I was raised in BALTIMORE MD. Plenty of inner city for me to speak from. Second, I can't count on my two hands the number of minority friends that I have, true friends, not just people I know. I speak from a position of experience, I have seen it, walked it and it is the reason I feel the way I do. I was brought up in a house with two life long Dem parents, I was taught to think the way they did but realized that it was all a lie. The dems have done nothing for black people but keep them in bondage through goverment programs and small handouts. They tell them" you need us to be successful, the evil white man will continue to keep you down". My friend, people like you have set back the minority population of this country for long enough. Typical to use the race card when you have no real response or answere. You are the reason this country is going to hell, you and your liberal elite journalism professionals, and I use that term losely. Stand out of the way, the revolution is coming and you and your ilk will be seen as the reason our country is suffering from all of the moral problems that we currently are having to deal with.

Lastly, since we are throwing around names, let me again yell it for all to see, YOU ARE ANTI AMERICAN.
Your tag equating a tyrants Regime in Bagdad to our countrys president by saying we need a Regime change in this country is the most offense and disgusting thing I have read besides your friend KK's latest post. Please leave our country and let the real americans get on with the business of improving this country.

Them, huh?

:rolleyes:

Herdon, you've got your revolution. It is unfolding before your eyes.

You and yours have the House. You and yours have the Senate. You and yours have the White House. You even own the airwaves.

Unfortunately, we all have to live with this. We all have to live with a trigger happy president who compensates for his lack of manhood by sending young men and women to do what he never had the balls to do -- invade countries on what amounts to a whim, regardless of international law or opinion.

We have to live with a government blissfully unaware of deficits piling up as far as the eye can see. We have to live with a government so obsessed with giving away a trillion dollars to the rich that big cuts are inevitable to a social safety net that is already the laughingstock of the industrialized world.

We even have a United States Senator calling on a journalist to be tried for treason. His offense? Speaking his mind.

The country has gone completely bonkers. There is your revolution Herdon.

The only satisfaction I get out of any of this is that I don't believe Americans will stand for this. It may take years, but I believe a counterrevolution is inevitable. People will wake up, and when they do, the Democratic Party will take our government back.

The shame is the bloodletting that will ensue between now and then. Untold numbers of poor, elderly and defenseless children will all be crushed under this runaway GOP crazy train before people come to their senses. The mangled diplomacy will take decades to clean up.

Regime change? Danged right I want regime change. Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot. I can't wait to send him back.



<!--EDIT|RochesterFalcon|Apr 4 2003, 12:00 AM-->

RochesterFalcon Wrote:Them, huh?

:rolleyes:

Herdon, you've got your revolution. It is unfolding before your eyes.

You and yours have the House. You and yours have the Senate. You and yours have the White House. You even own the airwaves.

Unfortunately, we all have to live with this. We all have to live with a trigger happy president who compensates for his lack of manhood by sending young men and women to do what he never had the balls to do -- invade countries on what amounts to a whim, regardless of international law or opinion.

We have to live with a government blissfully unaware of deficits piling up as far as the eye can see. We have to live with a government so obsessed with giving away a trillion dollars to the rich that big cuts are inevitable to a social safety net that is already the laughingstock of the industrialized world.

We even have a United States Senator calling on a journalist to be tried for treason. His offense? Speaking his mind.

The country has gone completely bonkers. There is your revolution Herdon.

The only satisfaction I get out of any of this is that I don't believe Americans will stand for this. It may take years, but I believe a counterrevolution is inevitable. People will wake up, and when they do, the Democratic Party will take our government back.

The shame is the bloodletting that will ensue between now and then. Untold numbers of poor, elderly and defenseless children will all be crushed under this runaway GOP crazy train before people come to their senses. The mangled diplomacy will take decades to clean up.

Regime change? Danged right I want regime change. Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot. I can't wait to send him back.

Hey Nostradamus...

Why hasn't this happened before? This isn't the first time the GOP has been in control.

First time since the 1950s, actually. You'll remember that back then they still complained about Social Security. I believe Bob Dole voted against Medicare.