RebelKev Wrote:Nate, if you're gonna post, post. It says you've been posting in this thread for about 20 minutes now. What, trying to do some research? Son, that comes with experience that you don't have...so I don't hold it against you.....IF you'll admit that you are just a 16 Y/O punk that only regurgitates what he has heard from "other" knowledgable sources.

Not doing any research, really, just had a lot to say.

Nate, I know VERY well that "society-created" profanity isn't in the Bible. HowEVER, it DOES have societal implications as to the nature of the one using them. ...and yes, this IS in the Bible.

RebelKev Wrote:Nate, I know VERY well that "society-created" profanity isn't in the Bible. HowEVER, it DOES have societal implications as to the nature of the one using them. ...and yes, this IS in the Bible.

Please elaborate... quoting scripture.

And respond to the rest of my post, please.

nate jonesacc Wrote:Your good friend Dr. Hauerwas wrote in his book "The Truth About God", about each commandment in each chapter. When it came to "Thou shalt not murder" there wasn't too much fudgery. How much can you fudge around with "THOU SHALT NOT MURDER". John LeNoue, with his wife Kaywin, born-again Christians, explaining why they own handguns, said "In the commandments, the actual Hebrew is not, "Thou shalt not kill." It is in fact, "Thou shalt not murder." So this is self-defense." In reality, the Hebrew verb "to kill" does mean murder in certain contexts (1 Kings 21:19), but it can also refer to unintentional killing (Deuteronomy 4:41-42), as well as to execution of a duly convicted killer (Numbers 35:30). "Thou shalt not murder" is a sweeping, broad statement which is terse, simple and to the point. God does not say "Thou shalt not murder; only in certain circumstances", He says "THOU SHALT NOT MURDER."

I eagerly await your eloquent response.

....but Sheep were slaughtered and fish were eaten. Is that murder? David slew Goliath, is that murder? It takes reading b/t the lines and a little common since. Abel was killed out of malice, THAT was murder.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:Your good friend Dr. Hauerwas wrote in his book "The Truth About God", about each commandment in each chapter. When it came to "Thou shalt not murder" there wasn't too much fudgery. How much can you fudge around with "THOU SHALT NOT MURDER". John LeNoue, with his wife Kaywin, born-again Christians, explaining why they own handguns, said "In the commandments, the actual Hebrew is not, "Thou shalt not kill." It is in fact, "Thou shalt not murder." So this is self-defense." In reality, the Hebrew verb "to kill" does mean murder in certain contexts (1 Kings 21:19), but it can also refer to unintentional killing (Deuteronomy 4:41-42), as well as to execution of a duly convicted killer (Numbers 35:30). "Thou shalt not murder" is a sweeping, broad statement which is terse, simple and to the point. God does not say "Thou shalt not murder; only in certain circumstances", He says "THOU SHALT NOT MURDER."

I eagerly await your eloquent response.

....but Sheep were slaughtered and fish were eaten. Is that murder? David slew Goliath, is that murder? It takes reading b/t the lines and a little common since. Abel was killed out of malice, THAT was murder.

1) As God said "Animals were made as food". Read the first 5 chapters of Genesis.

2) Yes, David murdered Goliath.

3) Yes, Cain and Abel was murder.

There is a ton of killing in the old testament. It is all murder, and as Christians, the New Testament has a bit more value than does the Old.

nate jonesacc Wrote:There is a ton of killing in the old testament. It is all murder, and as Christians, the New Testament has a bit more value than does the Old.

So Palestinian militants are doomed to hell? "I" believe so, but you are the one that seems to be their #1 supporter.

No. I don't believe that just wars are against God's will. The meak shall inherit the Earth, and I DON'T believe it's against God to protect them. It's interpretation....and I believe I am right IN my interpretation. We must do what is right for society while living for God. If executing a murderer is right for society, so be it. It is my belief that God doesn't hold this against us and in fact, condones it.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:There is a ton of killing in the old testament. It is all murder, and as Christians, the New Testament has a bit more value than does the Old.

So Palestinian militants are doomed to hell? "I" believe so, but you are the one that seems to be their #1 supporter.

No. I don't believe that just wars are against God's will. The meak shall inherit the Earth, and I DON'T believe it's against God to protect them. It's interpretation....and I believe I am right IN my interpretation. We must do what is right for society while living for God. If executing a murderer is right for society, so be it. It is my belief that God doesn't hold this against us and in fact, condones it.

1) Palestinian militants WILL go to hell. I never said anything like that. So will most of Israel's military.

2) You better hope to God that you're right about your beliefs. They aren't backed up by scripture or common sense. The meek shall inherit the kingdom of God, but only one fully human (fully God also) person can "save" a person. It is not our job to go into a country, kill their civilians and do it in God's name. God opposes murder and killing, especially when it comes to wars that aren't soceitally morally just. Arch Bishop William Temple once said "If you have a false idea of God, the more religious you are, the worse it is for you--it were better for you to be an atheist." With your militant ways, it's better for you to be an Atheist than to murder in the name of God. If I was you, I would change my ways before you die, or you're going to hell, buddy.

nate jonesacc Wrote:It is not our job to go into a country, kill their civilians and do it in God's name. God opposes murder and killing, especially when it comes to wars that aren't soceitally morally just.

Nate, NOW who's putting words into people's mouths? The only time I have ever heard of fighting in God's name, at least MY God, was during the Crusades.....which I very STRONGLY disagree with. Wars will be fought. People will die. We do not intentionally kill civilians, but we DO intentionally HELP civilians.

I have to stop playing for a while, I wanna play Combat Flight Simulator 3 online for a while.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:It is not our job to go into a country, kill their civilians and do it in God's name. God opposes murder and killing, especially when it comes to wars that aren't soceitally morally just.

Nate, NOW who's putting words into people's mouths? The only time I have ever heard of fighting in God's name, at least MY God, was during the Crusades.....which I very STRONGLY disagree with. Wars will be fought. People will die. We do not intentionally kill civilians, but we DO intentionally HELP civilians.

I have to stop playing for a while, I wanna play Combat Flight Simulator 3 online for a while.

When you say that God condones the Iraq war, you are doing it in God's name. God may not even be a reason, but to say that you're doing it with God in mind, hoping to appease his ways, you are doing it in his name. You don't intentionally kill civilians, but you no damn well ahead of time that it's gonna happen and you still do it. It's a common theme in Christianity to live a life whereas you aren't even REMOTELY sinning. In order to not even remotely sin, you shouldn't even kill, even if you "think" it's in God's name.

And please refute St. Augustine's logic about how we are Godly creatures and contain God.

nate jonesacc Wrote:When you say that God condones the Iraq war, you are doing it in God's name. God may not even be a reason, but to say that you're doing it with God in mind, hoping to appease his ways, you are doing it in his name. You don't intentionally kill civilians, but you no damn well ahead of time that it's gonna happen and you still do it. It's a common theme in Christianity to live a life whereas you aren't even REMOTELY sinning. In order to not even remotely sin, you shouldn't even kill, even if you "think" it's in God's name.

And please refute St. Augustine's logic about how we are Godly creatures and contain God.

When did I say God condones the war in Iraq? I NEVER did. What I SAID was, I don't think he holds it against us as we ARE protecting humanity. It is not my place to say what he does and does not condone.


We HAVE to protect ourselves. God knows this. To do anything else, would be suicide.

"It is my belief that God doesn't hold this against us and in fact, condones it. "

You never said that He condones it?

You lack a lot of faith if you think that God calls us to protect ourselves. Have you ever even cracked open a Bible? I can't wait to die. I can't wait to go to Heaven. Why are you so afraid to die? The way to conquer death is to die. Recently, a poll was taken of people in a town in Georgia (one of the most religious states in the country). They asked for the most influential people in a person's life. Only 7 of the top 100 were clergy. That is really wrong. Well over half of them should be clergy. People now look to doctor's before they die, rather than Ministers. Where is that advice from a doctor gonna get you after death? What you are asking a doctor to do is keep you from getting to Heaven... or potentially hell, dependant possibly on whether or not you're in the military.

Do you know who Dietrich Bonhoeffer is? He was a Luthern Minister during WW2. He escaped from Germany to the US to study in NYC... however, when Hitler became very prominent and it was obvious he was up to no good and killing many people, Bonhoeffer went back to Germany because he felt called to rise up against Hitler. He never killed or hurt anyone. He was one of the strongest members of the resistence, and he was eventually caught teaching Christianity to Germans during the uprising against Hitler. He was put in jail, but soon earned the respect of prison guards and other Nazi officials. Therefore, they let his work be saved (Life Together, Ethics, The Cost of Discipleship and others) and allowed him to minister to other prisonmates while he was waiting for his "sentence". Eventually, he was hanged, immediately deemed a Christian martyr. Now... was what he did suicide? We should all take a cue from him.

RebelKev Wrote:To do anything else, would be suicide.

To do anything else... like put our faith into God, and know that our future is secure in His hands?

nate jonesacc Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:To do anything else, would be suicide.

To do anything else... like put our faith into God, and know that our future is secure in His hands?

I never said I was afraid to die. I DO think that God wants us to fulfill our lives on Earth and be good followers. If not, why didn't he just make us all Angels?

...and I DO think that God understands how the Devil, and his inadvertant followers(Saddam) work, and realizes that we MUST protect ourselves.

i have a sig and it says Nate is a tool.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:To do anything else, would be suicide.

To do anything else... like put our faith into God, and know that our future is secure in His hands?

I never said I was afraid to die. I DO think that God wants us to fulfill our lives on Earth and be good followers. If not, why didn't he just make us all Angels?

...and I DO think that God understands how the Devil, and his inadvertant followers(Saddam) work, and realizes that we MUST protect ourselves.

Why not? That was his intention. Earth was supposed to be what Heaven is now; except for original sin. That's why Jesus was everything Adam was supposed to be.

Please quote some scripture supporting the claim that God wants us to protect ourselves. I've already quoted plenty of scripture supporting that God doesn't want us to kill. Period. End of story.

Suicide is murder in God's eyes.

nate jonesacc Wrote:Why not? That was his intention. Earth was supposed to be what Heaven is now; except for original sin. That's why Jesus was everything Adam was supposed to be.

Please quote some scripture supporting the claim that God wants us to protect ourselves. I've already quoted plenty of scripture supporting that God doesn't want us to kill. Period. End of story.

We'll just agree to disagree. I interpret it differently. I do NOT believe that God is against us protecting ourselves.

Terpy Wrote:Suicide is murder in God's eyes.

Of course... what are you trying to say?

And, that's fine, RebelKev.