Ok, being a Vet, why are Physical Tests different? I thought they wanted equality? Well, you have three choices, lower the MALE standards, in which you have a military that is weak because no OTHER country LIVES by this PC BS, raise the female standards to male standards.....in which ALL women would fail, or have different standards, which kills the ENTIRE ARGUMENT of feminists. Why is this important? Because Jessica Lynch was NO friggin' hero. That black girl went through more BS than she did and the ONLY reason she got SO much press is because she was alone. The ONLY medals she should have received are the Purple Heart and POW medal...but she got the bronze star. Bronze Star? For what? PULEEZE!

PC should NEVER degrade such a medal of honor.

They need to set a standard that is acceptable for top military performance. If a woman can't pass, tough. If a man can't pass, tough. Our military has to be an elite group and can't have a bunch of women who passed a sub-standard test. This is not saying that there are not women who can pass the men's standard.

I think the Israeli military has equal testing standards for their military. Of course, they are also a required service country.

In the Mid/Late 70's when I was teaching and Coaching,

They switched to Co-Ed PE. Which of couse, no one
liked.

At the same time...Title IX was really coming to the
fore front.

At a meeting for Lake County (Florida) Coaches...a
Rep from the Government was there to Tell Us...that
boys and girls are equal. Even though...EVERYONE
knows that physically...they are not!

The jest of the questioning that evening was...

If we are going to have ONE PE Class...then we should
have ONE basketball team.

But if we are going to have A Men's team and a Women;s
team in Basketball...then we ought to have boys and
girls PE.

The Government can't have it both ways.

Well...we went back to two PE classes.

But the truth of the matter is...There are no points for
second place in Combat. You win or you die. Worst
yet...Others could die, because someone doesn't measure
up.

There is no such thing as being politically correct on the
battlefield.

You have the highest standards and expectations. An
individual passes or fails...men or women.

Hey Rebel...What unit were you with and when?

I was with F Troop 2/8 CAV (Vietnam 12/29/67-12/15/68.

Then with a "Quick-React" Force...stationed at a NATO
base in Cypress...

Paul Wrote:But the truth of the matter is...There are no points for
second place in Combat. You win or you die. Worst
yet...Others could die, because someone doesn't measure
up.

This is what people don't get. What ABOUT the mission that failed with Lynch? There were 3 women, 1 Amercian Indian that died, 1 African American, who, in all honesty, was more upbeat than I think I could've been, and Lynch. Ok, that was 3 women, and we can't say how bravely they fought, BUT, what about biology? What about the biology of a man and his inherent trait of trying to shelter a woman(Wife-Beating Rednecks aside)? What happens when there is 50% of the unit as females? I WILL tell you that most men in the military WILL try to protect a female. True, they try to protect their comrades, as in combat, that's what they are TRULY fighting for as there is really no time to fight for God and Country...you're worried about your own ****** and the guy that HAS your ****** covered, but it's different with women.

PC shouldn't jeopardize our ability to fight........and it is doing just that.


Paul, I have been assigned to the 63d Sig Bn, 67th Sig Bn, 972'd Med Det., 1-155th Inf.(Nat'l Guard), and attached to the 141st Sig Bn for support in the Balkans.


...my dad was in the 2nd Marine Corps Division during Vietnam. 0811 Artillery.

BTW, the, "I WILL tell you" wasn't for you Paul, but for the other people that don't understand the military.

RebelKev Wrote:BTW, the, "I WILL tell you" wasn't for you Paul, but for the other people that don't understand the military.

Ain't no big deal...Never even thought of taking it
wrong.

I was more "shocked" with the remark that your
Dad was in Vietnam...(Are you trying to age me?)

Please don't...Nature is doing find on her own...

2nd Marines...0811 Arty...Weren't they in the
Da Nang area?

btw...we twice supported Marine units...

During The TET Offensive...we were moved into a
"flanking position" between...Quang Tri City and Hue...

Attacked QTC first...then did a pivot..and attacked
Hue from the North...while the Marines attacked from
the South...

Later...We were the lead elements in the relief of
Khe Sahn...(The "Blue Ghosts")

If your father is younger than that..."I DON"T WANT
TO KNOW!"

haha haha haha

Balkans huh?

I know a woman in Sofia, Bulgaria...(Maria Pencheava)

Forget it...She's too old for you!

Paul Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:BTW, the, "I WILL tell you" wasn't for you Paul, but for the other people that don't understand the military.

Ain't no big deal...Never even thought of taking it
wrong.

I was more "shocked" with the remark that your
Dad was in Vietnam...(Are you trying to age me?)

Please don't...Nature is doing find on her own...

2nd Marines...0811 Arty...Weren't they in the
Da Nang area?

btw...we twice supported Marine units...

During The TET Offensive...we were moved into a
"flanking position" between...Quang Tri City and Hue...

Attacked QTC first...then did a pivot..and attacked
Hue from the North...while the Marines attacked from
the South...

Later...We were the lead elements in the relief of
Khe Sahn...(The "Blue Ghosts")

If your father is younger than that..."I DON"T WANT
TO KNOW!"

haha haha haha

Balkans huh?

I know a woman in Sofia, Bulgaria...(Maria Pencheava)

Forget it...She's too old for you!

My father doesn't talk about it much. I gathered that he feels responsible for a fratricide incident on a MC infantry unit that included a friend of his. I gathered that one night when he used to drink(Church guy now)......'bout 6 years ago. 0811 is the MOS for Artillery and he thinks, and it may be true, that it was he that was given bad coordinates and shelled a friendly unit.....that included his friend.

His age, hmm, funny, he had scholarships to Ole Miss, Ms State, Jackson State, and a few others with an ROTC and Band(Drum guy...not nerd (6'4" 240Lbs) scholarship, but joined the USMC in '69, the year he graduated. ...the dumb***.

My Bad...

Misread your post...

Thought he was with a battery of the 8th Marine regiment.

Yep...He's younger...

I was back 6 months, before he went in...

The flight back to the world...was "memorable"...I was
so drunk...I to this day, do not remember landing at
Guam.

Paul Wrote:I to this day, do not remember landing at
Guam.

LOL! I don't blame you. Of course, coming back from Somalia, we didn't have that luxury............we made up for it in country.

If you believe in the military... then the rules should apply to both genders alike. If women really want equality, they need to put their rears in gear and get up to the same physical standards men are held to. No one in combat needs an inadequate soldier fighting with them, men or women regardless.

nate jonesacc Wrote:If you believe in the military... then the rules should apply to both genders alike. If women really want equality, they need to put their rears in gear and get up to the same physical standards men are held to. No one in combat needs an inadequate soldier fighting with them, men or women regardless.

:shock:


I agree with Nate!!!!!! :bluethumb:

The problem is that women are physically incapable of this. Men and women are simply built differently. I tend to agree that women should not be allowed in combat but just something to think about....is it possible that military technology has (or is at least beginning to) close the gap between men and women in terms of physical capability in combat?

Terpy Wrote:The problem is that women are physically incapable of this. Men and women are simply built differently. I tend to agree that women should not be allowed in combat but just something to think about....is it possible that military technology has (or is at least beginning to) close the gap between men and women in terms of physical capability in combat?

My point is what Nate was saying. If they want to be in combat, fine. However, they should be ALL female units. Males shouldn't have to give up their lives to do what is biologically natural to them. They wanna prove a point, fine. Don't get people killed for PC BS.

RebelKev Wrote:

Terpy Wrote:The problem is that women are physically incapable of this.  Men and women are simply built differently.  I tend to agree that women should not be allowed in combat but just something to think about....is it possible that military technology has (or is at least beginning to) close the gap between men and women in terms of physical capability in combat?

My point is what Nate was saying. If they want to be in combat, fine. However, they should be ALL female units. Males shouldn't have to give up their lives to do what is biologically natural to them. They wanna prove a point, fine. Don't get people killed for PC BS.

And it's 100% true about the whole inherent trait in males to protect females. There's no denying that fathers are very protective of their daughters... older brothers very protective over their sisters... etc...

BTW... I would think that there are a fair amount of women who CAN pass male standards out there, which is why I think this is a good issue. In the past 5-7 years, especially around my generation (tomorrow's military), there's been a spur of "female jocks". Trust me, there are plenty of women out there who can pass male standards; of course, this depends on whether or not they actually want to enlist in the first place, however.

And the whole technology thing... it would be logical to me that if there is any improved technology, it should not be going to those who are weaker, less compentent etc... partially because they are less likely to use it correctly but more so because a strong, fit male shouldn't have to sacrifice technology that could better suit him for some woman who wants to join the military to make a point and is inadequate.

Blah you dont get it. When did I say that only the women would benefit from the technology?

Also even if women are becoming more athletic they still will never physically be able to acheive what men can, no matter how often they work out. I dont know exactly what the physical standards for men in the military are but I doubt that any woman would ever be able to meet them.

Terpy Wrote:Also even if women are becoming more athletic they still will never physically be able to acheive what men can, no matter how often they work out. I dont know exactly what the physical standards for men in the military are but I doubt that any woman would ever be able to meet them.

WTF are you talking about? I gaurantee you people like Venus and Serena can pass those physical requirements... and the Williams sisters aren't the only cut women in this country... hell, look at your beastly girlfriend Terpy.

No matter how hi-tech...the military becomes...

To secure land...you will always need ground forces.

Can a woman fly a jet...I imagine. Can she fly it as
good as a man...I imagine...

Can she engage in hand to hand combat with a
Russian...Nope!

If there are women who can...then that's ok...but
No Special Rides...

One Standard...One Expectation...

There is no "gray" in this subject...It is black and white...

She can or she can't...period.

I don't believe it is a matter of being protective...of a
woman. I believe it would be a matter of knowing, that
if you engage in hand-to-hand with an enemy...your
"back" is inadequate...I believe "male" troops would
be worrying about that stuff to much...heading into
a "hot" area.

nate jonesacc Wrote:

Terpy Wrote:Also even if women are becoming more athletic they still will never physically be able to acheive what men can, no matter how often they work out.  I dont know exactly what the physical standards for men in the military are but I doubt that any woman would ever be able to meet them.

WTF are you talking about? I gaurantee you people like Venus and Serena can pass those physical requirements... and the Williams sisters aren't the only cut women in this country... hell, look at your beastly girlfriend Terpy.

As manly as they are the Williams sisters wouldnt stand a chance against the worst man on the tour. Heck, as buff as they are they probably still do girl pushups. Yes they may be stronger than your average Joe Shmoe who doesnt work out and sits in a cubicle all day, but they are not nearly as strong physically as the highly trained men in the military. Women simply arent capable of equalling men physically. Go take a biology class before my "beastly girlfriend" :rolleyes: kicks your scrawny white ******. :rolleyes: