Question: Does Ichiro deserve to be the highest paid AL outfielder?

If his power continues to increase, meaning later spot in batting order, mor RBI's, and continues to maintain a .330-.370 average, I think so.

even if ichiro's power numbers keep increasing, why would anyone bat him anywhere other than leadoff

his average hasn't contained .330. he hit .350 three years ago, .321 two seasons ago and hit .312 this year. His average is declining a lot, who cares about his power if he keeps hitting worse every year. Also, his power numbers haven't really increased at all. His big second half drops the last years are really disconcerting.

he is still a great leadoff hitter, but those numbers (above) have to frighten the Mariners.

the mariners shouldnt only be concerned with ichiros declining numbers as the season wears on, how about the numbers of all the mariners players in the second half of the season the last 2 years.

So Ichiro being the best defensive right fielder in the game has nothing to do with his contract extension?

of course it does, 'cause he's an amazing right fielder, i never said otherwise. Right now i'm just saying that his hitting has to be a major concern for the Mariners.

Despit Ichiro being a great leadoff, I think he could be even better as a number 2, similar to Luis Castilla in Florida. If they could pick up a .300 quick shortstop to replace Guillen, that would make the Mariners much more versatile.

flyingswoosh Wrote:of course it does, 'cause he's an amazing right fielder, i never said otherwise. Right now i'm just saying that his hitting has to be a major concern for the Mariners.

I wouldnt worry about a guy whose batting .312

[quote="Terpy"] [quote="flyingswoosh"] of course it does, 'cause he's an amazing right fielder, i never said otherwise.

cbfranchise3 Wrote:Despit Ichiro being a great leadoff, I think he could be even better as a number 2, similar to Luis Castilla in Florida. If they could pick up a .300 quick shortstop to replace Guillen, that would make the Mariners much more versatile.

forget SS, they need a catcher, 1st baseman, and 3rd baseman. Also, Mike Cameron is a great fielder but .253 with 18 homers and 76 RBI isn't gonna cut it. Their outfield produced a meager 42 homers, and 213 RBI, and had under a .350 OBP. Though they did swipe 74 bases.

They better hope Edgar Martinez can get it done for one more year.

Does Ichiro deserve to be the AL's highest paid outfielder? In a word, no.

He's a great tablesetter, but he's not a guy that can carry a team on his back. He'd be more valuable if the M's would get him some help in that lineup.

[quote="flyingswoosh"] [quote="Terpy"] [quote="flyingswoosh"] of course it does, 'cause he's an amazing right fielder, i never said otherwise.

If not Ichiro, who in the AL? Vernon Wells, Manny Ramirez, Garrett Anderson, Magglio Ordonez? I think Manny is the only one you could argue, but you could also argue Ichiro could have those numbers and even a higher on base % if he batted second before Bret Boone.

[quote="Terpy"] [quote="flyingswoosh"] [quote="Terpy"] [quote="flyingswoosh"] of course it does, 'cause he's an amazing right fielder, i never said otherwise.

Fine...if you dont like that one how about this...

At 30 Gwynn batted .309 and his batting average was under .320 for the next 2 season before he batted .358 in 1993 and an incredible .394 in the strike shortened 94 season.

Wouldnt the Padres have felt like dumbasses if they decided he wasnt worth it anymore if they let him go when he batted just ( :rolleyes: ) .309 with with a .357 OBP at age 30?

You want more examples?

Wade Boggs is the perfect example.

The Redsox thought he was through when he batted a rather lame .259 in 1992, the catch is his OBP was still a very respectable .353. He batted .302 the next season with the hated Yankees and in the strike shortened '94 season he batted .342. The Red sox clearly made a mistake in letting Boggs go, he went on to have several more very productive seaons in the majors.

Also I the reason why I brought up what Carew and Gwynn did early in their careers is because while they were much younger than Ichiro is, Ichiro still has only been in the league for 3 years. He has only been facing major league pitching for 3 years just as Carew and Gwynn for the seasons I brought up their numbers. Yes, Ichiro is 30 but his learning curve isnt the same as 30 year old players who have been in the league for 5+ years already.

Also I think the fact that Bill Mueller won the batting crown with a .326 average should factor into the argument, afterall he did finish 7th in the league in batting average.

If you want more examples of when a team possibly could have thought a player to be in decline but turned out to be wrong just let me know.

I'll say this: If a guy hits .312, then you have nothing to worry about.

Terpy Wrote:Fine...if you dont like that one how about this...

At 30 Gwynn batted .309 and his batting average was under .320 for the next 2 season before he batted .358 in 1993 and an incredible .394 in the strike shortened 94 season.

Wouldnt the Padres have felt like dumbasses if they decided he wasnt worth it anymore if they let him go when he batted just ( :rolleyes: ) .309 with with a .357 OBP at age 30?

You want more examples?

Wade Boggs is the perfect example.

The Redsox thought he was through when he batted a rather lame .259 in 1992, the catch is his OBP was still a very respectable .353. He batted .302 the next season with the hated Yankees and in the strike shortened '94 season he batted .342. The Red sox clearly made a mistake in letting Boggs go, he went on to have several more very productive seaons in the majors.

Also I the reason why I brought up what Carew and Gwynn did early in their careers is because while they were much younger than Ichiro is, Ichiro still has only been in the league for 3 years. He has only been facing major league pitching for 3 years just as Carew and Gwynn for the seasons I brought up their numbers. Yes, Ichiro is 30 but his learning curve isnt the same as 30 year old players who have been in the league for 5+ years already.

Also I think the fact that Bill Mueller won the batting crown with a .326 average should factor into the argument, afterall he did finish 7th in the league in batting average.

If you want more examples of when a team possibly could have thought a player to be in decline but turned out to be wrong just let me know.

You might be right, but the guys you mentioned had already had great years and were established, ichiro has had one season where he hit over .321, his rookie year. I still have the feeling that Ichiro is declining. Those guys had one sort of off year, while Ichiro has steadily declined for the past 2 seasons.

As for bill Mueller, the only reason he hit well was because he was playing in Fenway. haven't you noticed how amazing Fenway is for the lefties. David Ortiz, Mueller, Billy Goodman, Pete Runnels, Fred Lynn, Danny cater, etc. Those guys couldn't come close to that when they weren't in fenway.

My point was that this season was a down year for batting average in the AL.

I dont know what caused it but it obviously affected everyone including Ichiro.

A little off the subject here...but I've been hearing that Griffey Jr may end up in Seattle. Apparently, the Reds and Mariners are trying to work out some sort of deal that would send him back to the AL, where he will probably DH.

Any of you guys heard anything like this?

He'd still find a way to get hurt.