As in most bulletin board sites, we discuss things. Some people stick to the issues and some just troll around and annoy folks (I used to do that, ask JBR!). In the Spin Room, we've been discussing and itt has been fun. I am here and I participate so that I can fully understand those that I disagree with. I'm not just trying to say Gotcha! I would, in perfect world, like for those I disagree with to make a formidable and respectable attempt to try and understand me and my positions, my worldview.

While some have done just that, others have not, while posting under the guise that they are trying to add to the discussion. Nonetheless, the following is a link that talks about how to construct an argument. I have seen on this site some folks' complete inability to argue effectively. This plagues both the Right and those left of center equally.

Read the link and maybe we might be able to find some common ground (and this link is a page on a much larger site. Click around, there's alot of info).

<a href='http://www.fallacyfiles.org/introtof.html' target='_blank'>Logic 101, arguments</a>

After you've read this, please feel free to insult me and the others you disagree with because sometimes, it seems that is all some of you are capable of!

If you're a commie pinko fag, then you can't be logical.

The two are mutually exclusive, bird-brain! :stupid:

:roflol:

And, yes, for those who don't know the history, Dio and I used to spar quite a bit before we both figured out our common ground.

Now we just avoid talking about the Civil War and annoy Cons instead!

BTW, has anybody seen my "Favorite Liberal" poll? I know I posted it last night. . .

That darn Ashcroft!

:laugh:

What did you guys argue so much about re: the Civil War?

Well, Dio buys all the Union-inspired propaganda.

I don't. :laugh:

Seriously, I think it came out of more my baiting him regarding David Cutcliffe (we now both agree he sucks, but I was a wait and see-er back then). He then started attacking my Rebel Battle flag avatar (and heritage not hate ideology) and then. . .we waded through diabtribes on Bull Run, Shiloh, Vicksburg and Fort Sumter (the South was FORCED to fire the first shot, btw).

Since he was a history major with a philosophy minor (double major? I forget his pedigree. He knows a lot about both) he pretty much kicked my arse in every post but, well, when you grow up on the wrong side of the tracks with three older brothers, you get, how shall I say, good at insulting people. . .

The rest is history.

The turning point came when he made a RL plea to 10Man to reinstate him on the board (he had been banned because we all pretty much came to this board to get away from him and Coach Peanut. . .it's a rather long, sordid tale for another day).

Apparently the beer worked. Here he is--live, and in technicolor.

I said all that to say this:

Do NOT get him going on the Civil War. He just doesn't know when to let it go. :roflol:

Hey man, it was my brother (EBR) who talked me into meeting 10Man at Hooter's back in September! I was going to keep it going as long as possible. After we lost to Memphis, I thought "man, had I not met some of those dudes, I could really give them some shee-aht!"
[but nonetheless, who would've thought back then that we'd be going to the Cotton bowl?]

Anyway, the Civil War was my forte in college. I had some really good teachers, well research assistants. My professor said the first day of that class "I'm not here to tell you what to think. If any of you want to think the South was just in secession, that is your perogative. My position as professor is to show you the evidence and let you make up your own minds."

Anyway, he was hilarious because as you may know JBR, Ole Miss students defend that which is sacred and Robt. E. Lee and Forrest are sacred as is Widespread Panic (back in the summer I wrote a facetious op-ed column in the DM that suggested WSP and the Republicans were incahoots and I got death threats, man! It was hilarious considering I was listening to WSP when I wrote the column. People came up to me before classes, in the library, in the bars and said they wanted to kick my arse!).

I really enjoy studying the Civil War era and back when I was a kid, up until about the age 20, I seriously defended the South's position. Once I began looking at the evidence in my spare time, I noticed that all I held were beliefs about the Civil War. Those beliefs were not consistent with the evidence. 10 years later I took several southern history classes at UM and that showed me even more stuff on the CW era.

What I still find fascinating is that people get so riled up over it, thinking that the South will rise again. What a hoot!

Oh wait, I guess they did, Bill Frist, GW Bush and Clinton have been southerners who've taken the Union by storm! :laugh:

Maybe so...however...posting propoganda is in no way part of a debate. I'm as guilty of that as Dio and Joe.

From watching the UA Debate Team, who are the reigning 3-time debate team champions (beating Harvard is SWEET), I've noticed how a real debate works.

It doesn't involve propoganda. It involves only fact, then philosophy. It also involves personal opinion. Both sides do not refer to other's opinions unless they are experts, not journalists, not political pundits, but experts in their own field. Example: if the debate was on stem-cell research, opinions from biologists and doctors come into play, and none comes from a left or right wing article, paper, or magazine.

If you want proper debate...stop the propoganda and posting of liberal articles, Dio. Go into proper, step-by-step philosophy. State only fact. Otherwise, you'll get the Liberal BS Meter. I, in turn, will follow with rebuttal, or maybe very rarely, agreement. Then you'll have an educated debate. The Spin Room, though, is a war of propoganda and used only to agitate political sparring. It's not a place for much proper debate.

WPS

calling_the_hogs Wrote:AsMaybe so...however...posting propoganda is in no way part of a debate. I'm as guilty of that as Dio and Joe.

From watching the UA Debate Team, who are the reigning 3-time debate team champions (beating Harvard is SWEET), I've noticed how a real debate works.

It doesn't involve propoganda. It involves only fact, then philosophy. It also involves personal opinion. Both sides do not refer to other's opinions unless they are experts, not journalists, not political pundits, but experts in their own field. Example: if the debate was on stem-cell research, opinions from biologists and doctors come into play, and none comes from a left or right wing article, paper, or magazine.

If you want proper debate...stop the propoganda and posting of liberal articles, Dio. Go into proper, step-by-step philosophy. State only fact. Otherwise, you'll get the Liberal BS Meter. I, in turn, will follow with rebuttal, or maybe very rarely, agreement. Then you'll have an educated debate. The Spin Room, though, is a war of propoganda and used only to agitate political sparring. It's not a place for much proper debate.

WPS

Propaganda? That works both ways!

Liberal media? Says who, you? Then you are propagandizing!

You wrote: "I've noticed how a real debate works."
But you rarely care to exhibit that in your responses.

"It involves only fact..."
What are facts and who determines fact?

Socrates was called the wisest person in ancient Greece. You know why? He was wise because he had the forthrigth knowledge to know that he knew nothing at all!

As I peruse your response, I see that you are again refering to Left wing media. Who determines this, Calling? Do you determine it? Then it sounds like you are adding your own personal opinions and trying to cloak them as "facts."

"If you want proper debate...stop the propoganda and posting of liberal articles, Dio. "
Who is determining what is propaganda, Calling? You? And, I reiterate, who determines what is a "liberal" article? You?

"Go into proper, step-by-step philosophy."
I've been doing that, apparently you haven't been paying attention.

"State only fact."
One purpose of an argument is to come to an agreement between multiple parties on just what constitutes "fact."

"Then you'll have an educated debate."
I don't think I'll get educated debate here. Just more and more insults, non-sequitors and strawman fallacies.

Judging from the rhetoric you have posted previously in conjunction with this post, you have contradicted yourself over and over and over.

calling_the_hogs Wrote:Maybe so...however...posting propoganda is in no way part of a debate. I'm as guilty of that as Dio and Joe.

Notice, did I not mention my own name in there? Or did you just, as usual, jump to conclusions?

For every piece of media I've brought up, you've said the same thing! If I stuck anything from WorldNetDaily.com, you'd go nuts on it...for you to say what you post isn't straight from a liberal source is absurd, you know that as well as I do.

Facts in debates that I've seen come straight from mutually accepted sources. In classic debates, both sides passed over information, and both would conclude on the actual 'facts' before debating their positions.

As for propoganda, again, you know what you post mainly is. Or do you have to work at thinking about how what you post is propoganda? Your "news" has a huge liberal slant to it, because conservatives wide-spread are vehemently disagreeing with any and everything you post. You claim all my posts are for agitating...everything you type is geared to make any conservative look like a satanist moron...and you gear it in that direction.

You don't go step-by-step in philosophy, you just post and act like a little kid, or best yet, like your posts on the OM board that got you BANNED the first time, saying any point by a conservative is 'invalid' or you rant like nothing short of Al Sharpton.

But that's expected in here. Notice I also typed... "The Spin Room, though, is a war of propoganda and used only to agitate political sparring. It's not a place for much proper debate. "

You just made a fool of yourself, Dio. You jumped before you looked down. This is typical though. Ever since you entered, you have played the ultimate pessimist...and one doesn't need to look at the STUPID, idiotic posts you typed in the Ole Miss forums that got you kicked off and banned the first timeby GTS, pretending to be a frat boy who was reared by "
mommy" to whine about Ole Miss. The posts you made then shows incredible irrationality...why are you pointing at Kev when you typed that drivel?

I think people should all look at those earlier posts of yours that got you banned.... that's a show of character right there that could sway quite a few people.

WPS and OUT

This conversation reminds me of a popular skit:

Man: Is this the right room for an argument?

Mr Vibrating: I've told you once.

Man: No you haven't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I have.

Man: When?

Mr Vibrating: Just now!

Man: No you didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did!

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Did.

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: I'm telling you I did!

Man: You did not!

Mr Vibrating: I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half-hour?

Man: Oh, just a five minute one.

Mr Vibrating: Fine. (makes a note of it; the man sits down) Thank you. Anyway I did.

Man: You most certainly did not.

Mr Vibrating: Now, let's get one thing quite clear... I most definitely told you!

Man: You did not.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did.

Man: You did not.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did.

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did.

Man: Didn't.

Mr Vibrating: Yes I did!!

Man: Look this isn't an argument.

Mr Vibrating: Yes it is.

Man: No it isn't, it's just contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is.

Mr Vibrating: It is not.

Man: It is. You just contradicted me.

Mr Vibrating: No I didn't.

Man: Ooh, you did!

Mr Vibrating: No, no, no, no, no.

Man: You did, just then.

Mr Vibrating: No, nonsense!

Man: Oh, look this is futile.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: I came here for a good argument.

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't, you came here for an argument.

Man: Well, an argument's not the same as contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: It can be.

Man: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a definite proposition.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is. It isn't just contradiction.

Mr Vibrating: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.

Man: But it isn't just saying "No it isn't".

Mr Vibrating: Yes it is.

Man: No it isn't, an argument is an intellectual process... contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of anything the other person says.

Mr Vibrating: No it isn't.

Man: Yes it is.

Mr Vibrating: Not at all.

Man: Now look!

Mr Vibrating:(pressing the bell on his desk) Thank you, good morning.

Man: What?

Mr Vibrating: That's it. Good morning.

Man: But I was just getting interested.

Mr Vibrating: Sorry the five minutes is up.

Man: That was never five minutes just now!

Mr Vibrating: I'm afraid it was.

Man: No it wasn't.

Mr Vibrating: I'm sorry, I'm not allowed to argue any more.

Man: What!?

Mr Vibrating: If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.

Man: But that was never five minutes just now... oh come on! (Vibrating looks round as though man was not there) This is ridiculous.

Mr Vibrating: I'm very sorry, but I told you I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Man: Oh. All right. (pays) There you are.

Mr Vibrating: Thank you.

Man: Well?

Mr Vibrating: Well what?

Man: That was never five minutes just now.

Mr Vibrating: I told you I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.

Man: I've just paid.

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't.

Man: I did! I did! I did!

Mr Vibrating: No you didn't.

Man: Look I don't want to argue about that.

Mr Vibrating: Well I'm very sorry but you didn't pay.

Man: Aha! Well if I didn't pay, why are you arguing... got you!

Mr Vibrating: No you haven't.

Man: Yes I have... if you're arguing I must have paid.

Mr Vibrating: Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time.

Man: I've had enough of this.

Mr Vibrating: No you haven't.

:laugh:

And btw...great slogan on the bottom

WPS

calling_the_hogs Wrote:

calling_the_hogs Wrote:Maybe so...however...posting propoganda is in no way part of a debate. I'm as guilty of that as Dio and Joe.

Notice, did I not mention my own name in there? Or did you just, as usual, jump to conclusions?

For every piece of media I've brought up, you've said the same thing! If I stuck anything from WorldNetDaily.com, you'd go nuts on it...for you to say what you post isn't straight from a liberal source is absurd, you know that as well as I do.

Facts in debates that I've seen come straight from mutually accepted sources. In classic debates, both sides passed over information, and both would conclude on the actual 'facts' before debating their positions.

As for propoganda, again, you know what you post mainly is. Or do you have to work at thinking about how what you post is propoganda? Your "news" has a huge liberal slant to it, because conservatives wide-spread are vehemently disagreeing with any and everything you post. You claim all my posts are for agitating...everything you type is geared to make any conservative look like a satanist moron...and you gear it in that direction.

You don't go step-by-step in philosophy, you just post and act like a little kid, or best yet, like your posts on the OM board that got you BANNED the first time, saying any point by a conservative is 'invalid' or you rant like nothing short of Al Sharpton.

But that's expected in here. Notice I also typed... "The Spin Room, though, is a war of propoganda and used only to agitate political sparring. It's not a place for much proper debate. "

You just made a fool of yourself, Dio. You jumped before you looked down. This is typical though. Ever since you entered, you have played the ultimate pessimist...and one doesn't need to look at the STUPID, idiotic posts you typed in the Ole Miss forums that got you kicked off and banned the first timeby GTS, pretending to be a frat boy who was reared by "
mommy" to whine about Ole Miss. The posts you made then shows incredible irrationality...why are you pointing at Kev when you typed that drivel?

I think people should all look at those earlier posts of yours that got you banned.... that's a show of character right there that could sway quite a few people.

WPS and OUT

Calling the Hawgs, I think your most recent post in this thread is quite childish.

I asked you several questions that you did not answer. I wonder why?
1. Who determines what is propaganda? You? The majority? If that is correct, then how do you define "propaganda"? I would think, judging from your rhetoric, that you define propaganda as anything that Calling the Hawgs (or the majority) disagrees with.
2. Who determines facts, Calling? You? What makes you an authority?

"For every piece of media I've brought up, you've said the same thing! If I stuck anything from WorldNetDaily.com, you'd go nuts on it...for you to say what you post isn't straight from a liberal source is absurd, you know that as well as I do. "
3. When have I responded to WorldNetDaily info that you've posted? Answer: never. Perhaps you have me confused with some other pinko?
About sources being liberal, I disagree with that comment. Why do you say they are "liberal" Calling? Because you disagree with them?
The media has one agenda in this country and that is to make a buck. They are not some community service, the media is a business just like Wal-Mart. When the media says ridiculous things like the Clarion-Ledger in Jackson, MS, I point that out!

"Facts in debates that I've seen come straight from mutually accepted sources."
4. What mutually accepted sources? Gathering from the nature of this site, no one comes to any mutual understanding on what "accepted sources" are!

"In classic debates, both sides passed over information, and both would conclude on the actual 'facts' before debating their positions."
5. If facts are determined before debate, then why debate in the first place?

"As for propoganda, again, you know what you post mainly is."
6. Likewise, you know what you post is and is not. You know what you post is typical neocon rhetoric. In other words, propaganda!

"Or do you have to work at thinking about how what you post is propoganda? "
7. Again, I'll have to ask for your definition of propaganda!
I know what I post is rhetoric, just like I know what you post is rhetoric, usually in the form of insults and illogical and irrational thinking.

"Your "news" has a huge liberal slant to it, because conservatives wide-spread are vehemently disagreeing with any and everything you post."
8. Are you saying here that simply because conservatives are in the majority that they are correct because they constitute the majority? If so, then you are saying might makes right and we all know that is an unacceptable position.

"You claim all my posts are for agitating...everything you type is geared to make any conservative look like a satanist moron...and you gear it in that direction."
9. Likewise, everything you post is to demonize people who do not agree with you. Your posts are quite evident that you think people like me are evil, i.e. satanic. You, furthermore, gear it in that direction.

"You don't go step-by-step in philosophy, you just post and act like a little kid, or best yet, like your posts on the OM board that got you BANNED the first time, saying any point by a conservative is 'invalid' or you rant like nothing short of Al Sharpton. "
10. So are you a philosopher? Why don't you explain how I do not go step-by-step in philosophy!
I got banneed from the Ole Miss board because I was being a troll. I was doing that intentionally because I found it entertaining. And in this area, I'd have to say you are taking me and this entertainment site a little too seriously. Do you have a life?

"But that's expected in here. Notice I also typed... "The Spin Room, though, is a war of propoganda and used only to agitate political sparring. It's not a place for much proper debate. "
11. If you really believe this, and you know you do the same things that I do, then why are you on my case? Did I do something to upset you personally? Because if you continue to hate me, I think I'm gonna cry!


:snore:

"You just made a fool of yourself, Dio. You jumped before you looked down."
12. I make a fool of myself everyday. This comes with being human and if you keep insulting me, I think I'm gonna cry!
:chair:

"This is typical though. Ever since you entered, you have played the ultimate pessimist..."
13. Pessimist or uh...devil's advocate? I agree, I am pessimistic. When one pays upward of 60% of their personal income on insurance one tends to be rather pessimistic of their chances in life.

"and one doesn't need to look at the STUPID, idiotic posts you typed in the Ole Miss forums that got you kicked off and banned the first timeby GTS, pretending to be a frat boy who was reared by "
14. Again, I was just funning around back then. You take this stuff way too seriously!

"The posts you made then shows incredible irrationality...why are you pointing at Kev when you typed that drivel?"
15. I was quite irrational when posting about Ole Miss football. I am, as you know, an Ole Miss fan and fan is short for "fanatic" which by definition is quite irrational.
Now, a point here, you are comparing my Ole Miss fanhood to my political opinions and this is like comparing oranges to apples. My opinions on current events are more informed that RebelKev because he admittedly gets all his info from Neal Boortz who is not a newsman, he is a political rhetoritician.

Calling the Hawgs, I have to ask again, did I do something to piss you off? Why do you hate me? If you keep hating me, I think...I think I'm gonna cry!

"The posts you made then shows incredible irrationality...why are you pointing at Kev when you typed that drivel?"
16. I think people should look at your posts to see just how angry of a person you are!
To answer your question, when discussing current events, RebelKev has shown absolutly no understanding of logic, or of even what we are discussing! When he states things that are laughably incorrect, i.e. that all liberals are scum-sucking Bolsheviks, then I will call him on it.

Why don't you and I get together so you can kick my arse and that way you will feel much better about yourself. I will drive to meet you, anywhere, anytime. As you know, I am a liberal, bleeding heart, pinko commie son-of-a-bee-atch and in keeping with my political label I want you to feel better about yourself. So, I will allow you to kick my arse!

Just let me know. PM me!

Now I think *I'm* gonna cry! :(

GTS! Tell Dio to quit being such a funny motherf#$ker! I'm laughing so hard I want to cry!

That shiite was hell-arious! :roflol:

joebordenrebel Wrote:Now I think *I'm* gonna cry! :(

GTS! Tell Dio to quit being such a funny motherf#$ker! I'm laughing so hard I want to cry!

That shiite was hell-arious! :roflol:

Ok, everyone sit back, catch your breath and stop using the blatant profanity. It has been going on for a while but it is starting to get out of hand.

KlutzDio I Wrote:My opinions on current events are more informed that RebelKev because he admittedly gets all his info from Neal Boortz who is not a newsman, he is a political rhetoritician.

Do you realize how long it's been since I listened to Neal Boortz? or even visited his website? Just for the record...I NEVER stated ANYTHING about getting ALL of my info from Neal Boortz. Here's his disclaimer:

Quote:ALWAYS REMEMBER
Don't believe anything you read on this web page, or, for that matter, anything you hear on The Neal Boortz Show, unless it is consistent with what you already know to be true, or unless you have taken the time to research the matter to prove it's accuracy to your satisfaction. This is known as "doing your homework."

I haven't heard ANYONE, Liberal OR Conservative say that.

Quote:Ok, everyone sit back, catch your breath and stop using the blatant profanity. It has been going on for a while but it is starting to get out of hand.

So we can applaud the ruthless execution of innocent people but we are not to use words that make the bourgeoisie uncomfortable?

Roger that!

(Shoot! I was just about to get on a dad-blamed roll, too! Now that I can't use that cotton pickin' profanity, I don't have nothing to talk about! Golly begeezes!) :roflol: