<a href='http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/solafide.htm' target='_blank'>http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/solafide.htm</a>

Further, you might want to read up on some Romans 3:28.

....and with that kids, Common sense slipped away from Nate years ago.

Nate, you're a puppet and your father, if he IS the one feeding you this, is guilty of child abuse.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:And Kev, I think I remember you saying that the Bible is inerrant...

Nate, get off the crack. I have NEVER said that. Hell, I don't even think I've ever used that term at ALL.

As far as Paul, NO, I am NOT saying it was a bad thing, however, his death WAS a bad thing. He wasn't sent here to die as only one person was sent here to die. Paul's death was good for all Christians in that it helped Christianity, but what would his life have produced Nate? Ever thought about that? Ever researched the Bible about that?

Oh, and you believe all that BS you want about man being saved by faith alone, Nate. Don't worry about acting on it, you know, trying to witness to people and bring the people to salvation. Just worry about yourself and your faith Nate. **** everyone else, right? You son, are in need of another theology lesson from "daddy's friends".

So you do think that the Bible has faults?

Do you realize that had Paul not been martyred his writings probably never would have made it to the Bible? His death was WONDERFUL for Christianity, and he knew it.

NOT A FAITH THAT IS ALONE. What is faith if it is not accompanied by deeds? Read some James. There is no such thing as true faith in God in one does not act on it.

For example, do you think that nonChristians who live in a Christly manner will be saved? Yes, they do exist.

RebelKev Wrote:....and with that kids, Common sense slipped away from Nate years ago.

Nate, you're a puppet and your father, if he IS the one feeding you this, is guilty of child abuse.

Is this the way an administrator acts posting on the Sports Bar?

******, back when I was admin, my ****** would have been grilled for that kind of post.

Just asking for a little consistency.

By saying that man is saved by works... you are contradicting not only Martin Luther, but most of the Bible. :rolleyes:

spin room here we come! :wave:

Just go watch the frickin' movie, folks. And, if you are a Christian, realize the extent to which Christ was punished to pay for our sins.

Can we all agree on that?

-JD

JD Heel Wrote:Just go watch the frickin' movie, folks. And, if you are a Christian, realize the extent to which Christ was punished to pay for our sins.

Can we all agree on that?

-JD

Yes. :)

JD Heel Wrote:Just go watch the frickin' movie, folks. And, if you are a Christian, realize the extent to which Christ was punished to pay for our sins.

Can we all agree on that?

-JD

i don't need some charlatan to die for my "sins." If he hadn't died for my "sins" it wouldnt've made a difference.

nate jonesacc Wrote:For example, do you think that nonChristians who live in a Christly manner will be saved? Yes, they do exist.

IMO, BS. If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will NOT gain access to the Kingdon of Heaven.

...and with that.....this is moved to the Spin Room as it's a controversial, thanks to Nate, as the papers say.

The real argument:

Personal relationship versus direct interpretation.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:For example, do you think that nonChristians who live in a Christly manner will be saved? Yes, they do exist.

IMO, BS. If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will NOT gain access to the Kingdon of Heaven.

...and with that.....this is moved to the Spin Room as it's a controversial, thanks to Nate, as the papers say.

Shut up. The controversy on this thread did NOT start with me or you.

nate jonesacc Wrote:A more important question... When has humanity ever been endowed with the Divine responsibility of taking other human life?

Answer: Old Testament Israel, which was both a nation (within the realm of politics) and a group of God's chosen. However, living under the Fulfilled, or New, Testament, Christians have no realm of politics. The political association of Christians is the church.

This may have been Luther's view, but it wasn't Zwingli's and it's not mine.

You can hear an excellent sermon on the topic <a href='http://www.mcleanbible.org/resources/audio/mbc/lifeofpaul/paul67.mp3' target='_blank'>here.</a>

Quote:Dr. Torch... Let's use some logic here.

Surely you agree that each human being is, in essence, made up of God? If you don't, you are flirting dangerously with deism.

No, I don't agree with this. Man was created in the likeness of God, not with His essence (substance). As for deism, that's a huge leap that does NOT hold up under logic.
God is still active in this world, even if man does not have His essence.

Quote:Further, to hate anyone enough to kill him or her, is that not killing/hating the God inside of them?

Given your first comment has no logical merit, this one doesn't need an answer. But honestly there is no logicam merit here either. Murder, is of course terribly evil b/c it destroys a being made in the likeness of God...but that's not equivalent to killing.

Quote:Moreover, if each person is either a Christian, part of the body of Christ, or a potential Christian, how can you possibly justify taking his or her life?

I'm not sure where this came from. I don't remember being on this topic at all! But, perhaps you're talking about war. Since you've read Augustine, I'll not repeat his just war argument.

There is also sound basis for capital punishment for capital crimes.

And a truly repentant person will want to make restitution...restitution in this case includes accepting the appropriate consequences from the state (government).

Well, bummer. This is exactly what I didn't want to happen with this thread. I didn't want the debate because I knew the thread would get moved to the Spin Room. And, now people who normally don't go to the Spin Room won't see the thread.

-JD

JD Heel Wrote:Well, bummer. This is exactly what I didn't want to happen with this thread. I didn't want the debate because I knew the thread would get moved to the Spin Room. And, now people who normally don't go to the Spin Room won't see the thread.

-JD

Sorry. :(

nate jonesacc Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:For example, do you think that nonChristians who live in a Christly manner will be saved? Yes, they do exist.

IMO, BS. If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will NOT gain access to the Kingdon of Heaven.

...and with that.....this is moved to the Spin Room as it's a controversial, thanks to Nate, as the papers say.

Shut up. The controversy on this thread did NOT start with me or you.

Don't tell me to shut up you punk-****** kid.

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:For example, do you think that nonChristians who live in a Christly manner will be saved? Yes, they do exist.

IMO, BS. If you don't accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you will NOT gain access to the Kingdon of Heaven.

...and with that.....this is moved to the Spin Room as it's a controversial, thanks to Nate, as the papers say.

Shut up. The controversy on this thread did NOT start with me or you.

Don't tell me to shut up you punk-****** kid.

:laugh: :laugh:

What an administrator! :rolleyes:

DrTorch Wrote:

nate jonesacc Wrote:A more important question... When has humanity ever been endowed with the Divine responsibility of taking other human life?

Answer: Old Testament Israel, which was both a nation (within the realm of politics) and a group of God's chosen. However, living under the Fulfilled, or New, Testament, Christians have no realm of politics. The political association of Christians is the church.

This may have been Luther's view, but it wasn't Zwingli's and it's not mine.

You can hear an excellent sermon on the topic <a href='http://www.mcleanbible.org/resources/audio/mbc/lifeofpaul/paul67.mp3' target='_blank'>here.</a>

Instead of just stating your opinion, could you refute mine/Luther's/Bonhoeffer's?

Quote:Dr. Torch... Let's use some logic here.

Surely you agree that each human being is, in essence, made up of God? If you don't, you are flirting dangerously with deism.

No, I don't agree with this. Man was created in the likeness of God, not with His essence (substance). As for deism, that's a huge leap that does NOT hold up under logic.
God is still active in this world, even if man does not have His essence.
Any being which has no God surely would be living in Hell. After all, Hell has nothing to do with fire, it has everything to do with the complete absence of God.

Quote:Further, to hate anyone enough to kill him or her, is that not killing/hating the God inside of them?

Given your first comment has no logical merit, this one doesn't need an answer. But honestly there is no logicam merit here either. Murder, is of course terribly evil b/c it destroys a being made in the likeness of God...but that's not equivalent to killing.
How can you make a disctinction here? Is killing of an innocent person considered "murder" to you?

Quote:Moreover, if each person is either a Christian, part of the body of Christ, or a potential Christian, how can you possibly justify taking his or her life?

I'm not sure where this came from. I don't remember being on this topic at all! But, perhaps you're talking about war. Since you've read Augustine, I'll not repeat his just war argument.

Augustine didn't even like his own just war argument. He did not want war, and never condoned a war. Augustine knew that war was going to happen, and made provisions to ensure that war was done in a "holy manner". Even though I vehemently disagree with his theory, that's how it is.
There is also sound basis for capital punishment for capital crimes.
Like capital punishment for Christ? :rolleyes:
And a truly repentant person will want to make restitution...restitution in this case includes accepting the appropriate consequences from the state (government).
What kind of state should Christians adhere to?

up there

And kev, If I was a whiny ****** little ***** like you, I would call for your head after that personal attack like you did to bigolhawg. However, I'm not a punk ****** *****. :rolleyes:

nate jonesacc Wrote:You can hear an excellent sermon on the topic&nbsp; <a href='http://www.mcleanbible.org/resources/audio/mbc/lifeofpaul/paul67.mp3' target='_blank'>here.</a>

Instead of just stating your opinion, could you refute mine/Luther's/Bonhoeffer's?

If you'd listen to the sermon you'd find my answer. I'm sure I'd do a woefully inadequate job. Better listen to a pro. I can add commentary later.

Quote:Any being which has no God surely would be living in Hell. After all, Hell has nothing to do with fire, it has everything to do with the complete absence of God.

Yes, but the presence of God, and having the substance of God are two very different things. I don't see the debate here.

Quote: How can you make a disctinction here? Is killing of an innocent person considered "murder" to you?

When did the killing of an innocent person become the question? I missed that change.

Quote:There is also sound basis for capital punishment for capital crimes.
Like capital punishment for Christ? :rolleyes:

Christ was innocent of all crimes, especially capital ones. Where are you coming w/ these?

You refer to Bonhoffer, Augustine, etc, w/ familiarity. You've read enough to know the answers, but you don't like them, so you're giving me the bait-and-switch to different issues. I don't know why you dislike them so much, but I think it too is a different issue.

If you've read those great minds, you likely learn nothing more from me.

I'm resolute on the truth of the Bible. If I'm right, I hope you'll come to that resolution as well.