Dogger Wrote:I know the naive part of by the people for the people but darn it I believe it. I really do pity the time when the majority of Americans feel the way you do Klutz. Sad part is that we're probably there right now. Look at Fl. in the last election. You can still sell the belief to me that every vote counts.
I guess the part that you are still not getting is, IRAQ had nothing to do with 9-11. This is not simplistic, it's the truth. We were frightenend into this war of preemption. That's the part that disgusts me.
On a side note, you take a lot of time and effort in explaining your answers or positions. It's appreciated.
The first thing I learned as an undergraduate, when writing, is to be clear and to the point. When bringing up point B, one must explain point A first. If you didn't do this when writing as a student, you opened yourself up to criticism from your teacher--who usually knew more avenues of discussion on any given topic.
I've learned on this forum that if you make a point and are not clear, let's say I post a topic saying "it is certain, given the cultural complexities of the mid-east and the West, that rebuilding Iraq will be difficult."
Usually a statement such as this would garner responses such as, "you friggen libruls, why don't you go live in France." and comments such as "our military is the most powerful on the earth and the Iraqis want us to liberate them from Saddam" and my favorite, "you stinkin commie pinkos need to get a clue, Saddam will never be president of the United States. We know you love him, but his time is over."
Statements about cultural complexities usually brought up stuff like "we fixed the Germans and Japanese after we destroyed their countries, we'll do the same to Iraq."
You may believe the gov. is "for the people and by the people" and on the small, local level this rings true for many areas of the country.
On the federal level you may believe the old adage of for the people...but you can believe anything you want to believe, simply believing does not make it true.
You may believe the world is flat as a pancake, but simply believing it does not make it true.
Instead of telling me your beliefs about our gov. why don't you bring up some facts to illustrate your beliefs that the gov. is "by and for the people..."
You say every vote counts, but that is not always the circumstances a voter is faced with.
We go on the electoral system in presidential elections and if 49% of the population of a state votes for the Democratic candidate and 50% votes for the Republican candidate, then that state still goes Republican.
In the case of Florida in the 2000 election, certainly every vote counted as it does in the theoretical example I just mentioned. But in the case of myself, living in an overwhelmingly Republican state, I could vote for Kerry all I want, but my state's electoral votes will never be counted toward Kerry's electoral total.
Likewise, should I choose a third party candidate, that person would never receive Mississippi's scant, five electoral votes. Does every vote count?
In some ways, theoretically, a national presidential election could come down to two states, especially an equally split electorate. All of the states could cancel one another's electoral votes out, and in the final run only two states could compete for the election of the president.
I think our electoral system dissuades many voters in many states, but the presidential election is only once every four years and any given locality has countless elections every year.
Lastly, on Iraq, had the buildings not been blown up with hijacked airplanes, we'd have likely pre-empted them when we did, perhaps even earlier. The attack is not the impetus for war, the war footing begins much sooner and that is the gist of the other post I made on this thread today.