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Here you go Dogger,
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Post: #1
 
This Marine must not know. Maybe you should enlighten him from the comfort of your living room:

(Borrowed graciously from a post by umbluegray)


<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><a href='http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-05-18-connable_x.htm' target='_blank'>A Marine sees what defeatists don't</a></span>

By Ben Connable

RAMADI, Iraq — This is my third deployment with the 1st Marine Division to the Middle East.
This is the third time I've heard the quavering cries of the talking heads predicting failure and calling for withdrawal.

This is the third time I find myself shaking my head in disbelief.

Setbacks and tragedy are part and parcel of war and must be accepted on the battlefield. We can and will achieve our goals in Iraq.

<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><a href='http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2004-05-18-connable_x.htm' target='_blank'>Continue reading the USAToday article</a></span>
05-25-2004 08:41 AM
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Post: #2
 
What are our goals in Iraq Reb? WMD's, stop torturers, or school supplies. It's not as simple as promoting democracy. You have complex intertwined agendas on many fronts. The US agenda or goal is to keep our vital interest secure in that area. Nothing less nothing more. I propose a moon shot effort towards an alternative energy to propel our cars. Until we become independent of someone shutting off a valve that can cripple our economy we will continue to be drawn into this area that can't be governed. Take a look at what Churchill said when Britain got out of Iraq.
05-25-2004 08:49 AM
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All of the above are necessary to help in the creation of a free and peaceful Iraq. We did it with once before with the Marshall Plan, remember? Seemed that worked yet the same ones that benefitted from that plan are bashing this plan. Go figure.
05-25-2004 08:56 AM
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I also do NOT believe oil has anything to do with the hatred the Middle-East has for the United States.
05-25-2004 08:57 AM
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Post: #5
 
Reb,

I've talked to people who have come back from Iraq. How many people have you talked to? The main thing they told me is that the regular army is well supplied personally flak jackets etc...., but the reserve units are not well supplied they rotated their supply of vests... if you were shot at you just hoped it was your day to have the vest. They felt the humvees were especially vunerable. Talk to the guys coming back, ask them what they think. We are doing good things over there. Digging wells and building schools. But we were lied to going in and we are being lied to about the real reason we are over there.
05-25-2004 09:05 AM
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Dogger Wrote:Reb,

I've talked to people who have come back from Iraq. How many people have you talked to? The main thing they told me is that the regular army is well supplied personally flak jackets etc...., but the reserve unit are not well supplied they rotated their supply of vests... if you were shot at you just hoped it was your day to have the vest. They felt the humvees were especially vunerable. Talk to the guys coming back, ask them what they think. We are doing good things over there. Digging wells and building schools. But we were lied to going in and we are being lied to about the real reason we are over there.
How many people? Well, let's see, and I don't like to sound redundant and "Kerry-ish" but when questioned it becomes valid, ...


...I spent 8 years in the military, was deployed to Somalia, and since getting out in '00, I have worked with the military in capacities ranging from training on Ft. Gordon to what I do now, get deployed to new SBCT's(Stryker Brigade Combat Teams) to train them before they are deployed. I know probably 10 times as many people in the military as I do civilians. The unit I am training now will be deployed within the year. I know what is in the minds of these servicemembers upon deployment and upon their return from combat.

Good enough answer for you?
05-25-2004 09:10 AM
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Are these stryker combat teams special forces? The reason I ask is maybe that group is well supplied. I've talked to ex-students who have come back and to friends who are over there. I'm always cautious when I talk to military people because

A. They are serving our country.

B. I want them to feel they are appreciated for their service.

One friend of mine has had his marriage break up during his service. Now obviously his marriage couldn't have been in the best of shape, but lives are being changed. I respect you for your service to our country and I am glad you believe in this cause. I respectfully disagree with you, I think we have been misled and you are the sharp spear to a dumb shaft.
05-25-2004 09:26 AM
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Dogger Wrote:Are these stryker combat teams special forces? I've talked to ex-students who have come back and to friends who are over there. I'm always cautious when I talk to military people because

A. they are serving our country

B. I want them to feel they are appreciated for their service.

One friend of mine has had his marriage break up during his service. Now obviously his marriage couldn't have been in the best of shape, but lives are being changed. I respect you for your service to our country and I am glad you believe in this cause. I respectfully disagree with you, I think we have been misled and you are the sharp spear to a dumb shaft.
The divorce rate in the military has always been high, whether in war time or peace time. One common suggestion that is always made to new GI's, Don't bring your wife to the barracks. The Stryker Brigades are combat brigades with everything a division has. They are smaller units and more mobile, but they were created to address new issues the military faced, Ie. not needing a 10K division to go after 1000 hostiles. The mood there is totally different than what you get from the news. What one would think is that the entire country erupts daily into gunfire. Not true. Most cities in Iraq are stable and prospering. The ones that aren't are in the Sunni Triangle, understandable as that was Saddam's stomping grounds, and cities in the Shi'ite areas, NOT understandable as Al-Sadr's father was killed by Saddam and he should have welcomed us with open arms. Also what you don't hear is that most Shi'ites DO want us there and want Al'Sadr's head on a plate as he killed another, more respected Shi'ite cleric for power. He's a punk and deserves to be taken out. Rest assured, the Shi'ites do want us there.
05-25-2004 09:38 AM
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Post: #9
 
I agree that we are doing good things. I hope you don't think I am anti-military. I'm anti-Bush. His cocky attitude early on of bring the terrorists on in Iraq. It was complete bravado, hey our military's job is hard enough. I could go on a real rant here when it was his time to serve and what his true colors are, but I'm going to take a different tone. I respect ya Reb.
05-25-2004 09:46 AM
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Post: #10
 
Dogger Wrote:Reb,

I've talked to people who have come back from Iraq. How many people have you talked to? The main thing they told me is that the regular army is well supplied personally flak jackets etc...., but the reserve units are not well supplied they rotated their supply of vests... if you were shot at you just hoped it was your day to have the vest. They felt the humvees were especially vunerable. Talk to the guys coming back, ask them what they think. We are doing good things over there. Digging wells and building schools. But we were lied to going in and we are being lied to about the real reason we are over there.
Dogger,

Here is the text of the resolution authored by the Adminstration and passed by Congress in 2002. It authorizes the use of military force against Iraq.

<a href='http://www.kpid.dk/Iraq%20Resolution%20of%202002.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.kpid.dk/Iraq%20Resolution%20of%202002.htm</a>

Can you please point out the lies in this authorization?
05-25-2004 09:49 AM
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Post: #11
 
yellow cake, acquiring a means to a nuclear weapon... Sound familiar??????

don't take my word read Zinni's and Clancy's book of "Battle Ready"

Do you really believe Bush didn't push this war? That he couldn't have led us in another direction. Saddam was not contained.
05-25-2004 10:03 AM
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Dogger Wrote:yellow cake, acquiring a means to a nuclear weapon... Sound familiar??????

don't take my word read Zinni's and Clancy's book of "Battle Ready"

Do you really believe Bush didn't push this war? That he couldn't have led us in another direction. Saddam was not contained.
I think Saddam is pretty contained right now. ...and as far as Clancy, I like the guys books, but how many conspiracy theories do you have to create before you really start seeing black CIA Helos hovering ahead?
05-25-2004 10:05 AM
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How many insider books have to be written before you allow a little truth to sink in?
05-25-2004 10:27 AM
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Oddball Wrote:How many insider books have to be written before you allow a little truth to sink in?
How "inside" is Tom Clancy?
05-25-2004 10:29 AM
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RebelKev Wrote:
Oddball Wrote:How many insider books have to be written before you allow a little truth to sink in?
How "inside" is Tom Clancy?
How "insider" is his co-author?
05-25-2004 10:29 AM
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Oddball Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
Oddball Wrote:How many insider books have to be written before you allow a little truth to sink in?
How "inside" is Tom Clancy?
How "insider" is his co-author?
Depends, everything I saw was his "view" on the situation. Shall I trump your General with my own? All in all, it's an opinionated book and negates nothing as we can go all day with, "My general is better than your general" BS. Remember Clark? You do realize he was against it also, right? ....well, when he decided to run, that is.
05-25-2004 10:34 AM
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It's probably a conspiracy. :rolleyes:
05-25-2004 10:36 AM
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Post: #18
 
Dogger Wrote:yellow cake, acquiring a means to a nuclear weapon... Sound familiar??????

don't take my word read Zinni's and Clancy's book of "Battle Ready"

Do you really believe Bush didn't push this war? That he couldn't have led us in another direction. Saddam was not contained.
Hey, dogger, no problem. If you can't point out the lies in the reasons the Admistration gave to Congress to use military force. :rolleyes:
05-25-2004 10:47 AM
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Reb,

This is at the heart of the problem. No matter what people say when it involves criticizing the current leadership you guys spin as something other than direct legitimate crticism.
05-25-2004 11:25 AM
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Dogger Wrote:Reb,

This is at the heart of the problem. No matter what people say when it involves criticizing the current leadership you guys spin as something other than direct legitimate crticism.
Are you saying the left is incapable of spin?
05-25-2004 11:41 AM
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