RebelKev Wrote:....and wind is not air.....in the sense you are trying to make it.

I was not even trying to make that argument, but that pre-emptive strike sure was nice.

I always point out that 40,000 years ago there was a glacier that covered north texas, a couple years ago they had one of the hottest summers in recorded history. Global warming and cooling do exsist, the question is what role does man play in it. There needs to be better scientific data on the subject and then if a problem is found it needs to be sovled globaly. Right now the world effort seems to be, not to save the planet, but to slow down the U.S. economy in order for other countrys to gain an economic advantage.

Skipuno Wrote:I always point out that 40,000 years ago there was a glacier that covered north texas, a couple years ago they had one of the hottest summers in recorded history. Global warming and cooling do exsist, the question is what role does man play in it. There needs to be better scientific data on the subject and then if a problem is found it needs to be sovled globaly. Right now the world effort seems to be, not to save the planet, but to slow down the U.S. economy in order for other countrys to gain an economic advantage.

Oyster shells are also found all over Ft. Hood, Texas. SUV's and humans didn't cause that sea to recess.

RebelKev?

Open Secrets Wrote:RebelKev?

What? I disagree with you. While I believe in global warming, I do not, for a second, believe we are doing anything to cause it.

Respond to this:

"Meteorological conditions don't include air quality?

So, if the quality of air degrades over time, and potentially produces acid rain, that does not affect precipitation?

Are you serious? "

Open Secrets Wrote:Respond to this:

"Meteorological conditions don't include air quality?

So, if the quality of air degrades over time, and potentially produces acid rain, that does not affect precipitation?

Are you serious? "

Let's see, acid rain is still rain, ain't it?

RebelKev Wrote:While I believe in global warming, I do not, for a second, believe we are doing anything to cause it.

The scientific consensus is against you.

Perhaps a couple of charts -- from the recent report on arctic global warming -- can help you understand why.

I don't disagree with global warming Schad. I disagree with agenda-driven people that believe it is caused by SUV's. Again, cows are some of the main producers of methane gas, something that these people say is detrimental to the ozone layer, yet they have been around for years and years. Even before cows, I can guarantee you that these same scientists believe in dinosaurs, so it would stand to reason that they too would have the same impact, correct?

RebelKev Wrote:I don't disagree with global warming Schad. I disagree with agenda-driven people that believe it is caused by SUV's.

Carbon dioxide is the issue.

Carbon dioxide levels are substantially higher than they have been since humans walked the earth. There has been an enormous increase since 1800. Most of it occurred during the 20th century.

Can you look at those charts and seriously argue with a straight face that industrialization isn't the cause?

If you look, you will see average arctic temperatures are pushing the upper boundary of the last 200,000 years and expected to go much higher. Very soon.

Further, the reasons why excessive carbon dioxide influences temperature are well understood. Scientists really do understand the mechanics of how carbon dioxide serves as a greenhouse gas.

I don't see what's left to debate... except solutions.

Then what caused the demise of the ice age?

RebelKev Wrote:Then what caused the demise of the ice age?

Judging by the chart, a natural fluctuation in carbon dioxide.

According to the chart, our carbon dioxide levels are not natural -- at least not when measured against the past 400,000 years.

RebelKev Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:Respond to this:

"Meteorological conditions don't include air quality?

So, if the quality of air degrades over time, and potentially produces acid rain, that does not affect precipitation?

Are you serious? "

Let's see, acid rain is still rain, ain't it?

Do you have ANY CLUE what is being discussed here?

Open Secrets Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:Respond to this:

"Meteorological conditions don't include air quality?

So, if the quality of air degrades over time, and potentially produces acid rain, that does not affect precipitation?

Are you serious? "

Let's see, acid rain is still rain, ain't it?

Do you have ANY CLUE what is being discussed here?

Do you?

Let's recap.

You claimed that we aren't doing a damned thing to affect "climate", but might be doing something to affect air quality.
Climate is defined as "the meteorological conditions including temperature, precipitation and wind.
Say sulfur emissions increase, and the SO2 levels cause a degradation of air quality. Those same SO2 levels cause acid rain. Acid rain falls under the "precipitation" category of the climate definition. Therefore, if we degrade air quality, we also affect the climate.

To that simple logic, you reply "Well, acid rain is still rain, isn't it?"

Are you trying to prove my point?

Then you revert to the 3rd grade tactic of responding to my question with the exact same question!

Open Secrets Wrote:Let's recap.

You claimed that we aren't doing a damned thing to affect "climate", but might be doing something to affect air quality.
Climate is defined as "the meteorological conditions including temperature, precipitation and wind.
Say sulfur emissions increase, and the SO2 levels cause a degradation of air quality. Those same SO2 levels cause acid rain. Acid rain falls under the "precipitation" category of the climate definition. Therefore, if we degrade air quality, we also affect the climate.

To that simple logic, you reply "Well, acid rain is still rain, isn't it?"

Are you trying to prove my point?

Then you revert to the 3rd grade tactic of responding to my question with the exact same question!

"I don't believe anything we are doing is causing global warming. "

Like you told Amerikenny on another thread, reading comprehension 101, Bud.


BTW, are you TRYING to piss me off?

No, I am trying for you to once understand why people don't respect what you have to say. Unlike some of your conservative counterparts on this board like Ninerfan81 and Dr. Torch, you post unsupported garbage in as angry a tone as you can muster.

You have yet to answer my question.

If we affect air quality, we are affecting the climate!

RebelKev Wrote:Too cold to snow? Have you ever been to an arctic region Schad?

Yeah, this looks like its warming up:

<a href='http://www.arcticcam.com/cam.html' target='_blank'>http://www.arcticcam.com/cam.html</a>

.....Rest assured, the Chena River will still freeze over.

I do not believe for one SECOND that we are doing ANYTHING to effect the climate. Air? Maybe so, but not the climate. The climate goes through cycles....which is why the ice age ended and you have droughts in areas that were once tropical. There is an oyster bead in the middle of the Sahara desert. Explain that. Hell, scientists have determined that there was a river greater than the Mississippi that once flowed from the East to the West in America. Was its demise due to SUV's or anything we created? How about the fact that Cows are some of the #1 producers of methane gas on Earth? Didn't Bison once roam here in the millions? How much methane was discharged from a Brontosaurus fart? K..multiply it by 1000. How about Brachiosaurus's? Mars is undergoing climatic changes as we speak. SUV's? Inhabitants? No. It's called nature.

Nope, I feel this is some liberal agenda against prosperity. We do not cause global warming.

Right there in the bold, big guy.

Open Secrets Wrote:No, I am trying for you to once understand why people don't respect what you have to say. Unlike some of your conservative counterparts on this board like Ninerfan81 and Dr. Torch, you post unsupported garbage in as angry a tone as you can muster.

You have yet to answer my question.

If we affect air quality, we are affecting the climate!

Every post I made with the exception of that one was my opinion that we do NOT affect global warming. I posted an article about Mars also going through a stage of global warming. MY opinion, Mr. Can't Comprehend, is that these SUV-hating liberals are agenda-driven whores that are masking their anger at prosperous people behind an enviromental problem that I do not believe is caused by Humans. Clear enough for you?

RebelKev Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:No, I am trying for you to once understand why people don't respect what you have to say. Unlike some of your conservative counterparts on this board like Ninerfan81 and Dr. Torch, you post unsupported garbage in as angry a tone as you can muster.

You have yet to answer my question.

If we affect air quality, we are affecting the climate!

Every post I made with the exception of that one was my opinion that we do NOT affect global warming. I posted an article about Mars also going through a stage of global warming. MY opinion, Mr. Can't Comprehend, is that these SUV-hating liberals are agenda-driven whores that are masking their anger at prosperous people behind an enviromental problem that I do not believe is caused by Humans. Clear enough for you?

You are still missing the point. I don't care what you believe in this case. What I care about is the fact that you managed to contradict yourself in a matter of two sentences.