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Private Sector vs. Public Interests
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Dogger Offline
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Post: #1
 
It's been kind of interesting to see how this breaks. Let's just start by listing adavantages to both and see where it takes us. A couple off the top of my head.

Private-
More Efficient
Less Cost


Public-
Better Oversight
It will always be there--

Social Security is such a great way to insure our elderly. Do we really want to mess with this system? I have been surprised how many of my right leaning friends strongly support social security.
01-14-2005 09:59 AM
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Post: #2
 
Why do you think public has better oversight? I would venture to say that there is more oversight in the private sector than in the public. Fannie Mae, while private, is a government-subsidized institution....with government oversight.
01-14-2005 10:05 AM
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JTiger Offline
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Post: #3
 
My biggest concern with private corporations is motive. They are motivated by profit, nothing wrong with that. However, profit and ethics don't always go hand in hand. Look at Enron.
01-14-2005 10:05 AM
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Post: #4
 
JTiger Wrote:My biggest concern with private corporations is motive. They are motivated by profit, nothing wrong with that. However, profit and ethics don't always go hand in hand. Look at Enron.
You saying the government is ethical? With public, everything is about votes. With private, profit is good for you as well.
01-14-2005 10:07 AM
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Dogger Offline
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Post: #5
 
The only oversight for the private sector is a court room and we all know the affinity the right seems to have with the judicial system.
01-14-2005 10:13 AM
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JTiger Offline
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Post: #6
 
RebelKev Wrote:
JTiger Wrote:My biggest concern with private corporations is motive.  They are motivated by profit, nothing wrong with that.  However, profit and ethics don't always go hand in hand.  Look at Enron.
You saying the government is ethical? With public, everything is about votes. With private, profit is good for you as well.
You saying what Enron did was good? At least if it is about votes, the public benefits occasionally.
01-14-2005 10:18 AM
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Post: #7
 
JTiger Wrote:
RebelKev Wrote:
JTiger Wrote:My biggest concern with private corporations is motive.  They are motivated by profit, nothing wrong with that.  However, profit and ethics don't always go hand in hand.  Look at Enron.
You saying the government is ethical? With public, everything is about votes. With private, profit is good for you as well.
You saying what Enron did was good?
You saying what Fannie Mae did was good? I'll give you an example, when money comes up missing in the private sector, it is usually found and the persons guilty are dealt with. Do you realize how much waste, fraud and abuse goes on in the government? SS, in itself, is one of the biggest scams ever perpetrated on the American populace. You are forced to pay in, yet there is absolutely nothing stating the government has to give you back one red cent. Again, Galveston, Texas and the government of Chile did away with SS. They are both doing fine.
01-14-2005 10:20 AM
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JTiger Offline
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Post: #8
 
I'm not familiar with the Fannie Mae controversy, but the problem with private sector programs is that failure is an option. It's called bankrupcy. I like that government programs that are designed to secure the retirment of our elderly don't have that easy out. I'm concerned that these people would take all these payments and declare bankrupcy, while they build mansions on the beach like Ken Lay.
01-14-2005 10:30 AM
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Dogger Offline
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Post: #9
 
I'm sure Vegas residents would do well without social security also, but it's this selfish mentality that has creeped into our conscience. What's in it for ME. What has happened where we no longer value the statement "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what can you do for your country. Think about all of the great things this country has done over the last fifty years. All the advancements of our society would be practically impossible in today's environment. The moonshot is the first thing that comes to my mind. Imagine if we gave the same type of effort to renewable fuels?
01-14-2005 10:31 AM
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Tulsaman Offline
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Post: #10
 
hell i'll make it simple raise SS Tax 2% and its fixed.
01-14-2005 10:31 AM
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Post: #11
 
There's a simple solution to the Enron-like debacles, don't invest ALL of your money in one company. With freedom comes responsibilty. I want to own my retirement account. I dont want to get my returns by the grace of government. It's my money, is it not? Roads, defense, education, etc., fine. Tax me. I agree that government needs to be funded. This, however, isn't a role of the government.
01-14-2005 10:36 AM
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JTiger Offline
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Post: #12
 
RebelKev Wrote:There's a simple solution to the Enron-like debacles, don't invest ALL of your money in one company. With freedom comes responsibilty. I want to own my retirement account. I dont want to get my returns by the grace of government. It's my money, is it not? Roads, defense, education, etc., fine. Tax me. I agree that government needs to be funded. This, however, isn't a role of the government.
Do you suggest that we cut it all off now? Leave all our senior and those that paid into the system out to dry? I think that would create a huge problem of elderly homeless. Not everyone is financial literate enough to properly diversify their portfolio. Sometime poeple need help, and since you are looking out for #1 and no one else the government needs to help them.
01-14-2005 10:42 AM
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Dogger Offline
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Speaking of selfishness vs. the common good. In Bowling Green Ohio, (University Town) people voted on whether to increase their electric bill by 2cents a KW/hr. You could choose this option to recieve your electric from a green source. I believe 8% of the population voted for the green energy. They did install two giant wind mills at the expense of the 8%. Now those 8% are ponying up the costs to make this a BETTER world. This is a prime example of the selfishness in our society. If more people or the govt. legislated that everybody pays the costs would have been cheaper and it would make for a better world.
01-14-2005 10:47 AM
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Lethemeul Offline
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Post: #14
 
JTiger Wrote:Do you suggest that we cut it all off now?  Leave all our senior and those that paid into the system out to dry?  I think that would create a huge problem of elderly homeless.  Not everyone is financial literate enough to properly diversify their portfolio.  Sometime poeple need help, and since you are looking out for #1 and no one else the government needs to help them.
Nobody is suggesting that we end SS payments to those who are already receiving them or to those who are going to be entering the system in the next 5 or so years.

The gov't takes more money from me for SS than I put into my 401(k), yet by the time I retire, my 401(k) will be worth more than all the money I put into SS. That's a problem.

Someone smarter than me will come up with the solution, and I can guarantee that nobody will be made homeless by the changes.
01-14-2005 10:49 AM
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Lethemeul Offline
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Quote:If...the govt. legislated that everybody pays the costs would have been cheaper and it would make for a better world.

Quote edited for effect

And that would be socialism at it's finest.
01-14-2005 10:50 AM
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JTiger Offline
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Post: #16
 
Lethemeul Wrote:
JTiger Wrote:Do you suggest that we cut it all off now?  Leave all our senior and those that paid into the system out to dry?  I think that would create a huge problem of elderly homeless.  Not everyone is financial literate enough to properly diversify their portfolio.  Sometime poeple need help, and since you are looking out for #1 and no one else the government needs to help them.
Nobody is suggesting that we end SS payments to those who are already receiving them or to those who are going to be entering the system in the next 5 or so years.

The gov't takes more money from me for SS than I put into my 401(k), yet by the time I retire, my 401(k) will be worth more than all the money I put into SS. That's a problem.

Someone smarted than me will come up with the solution, and I can guarantee that nobody will be made homeless by the changes.
Another concern I have is the economy. If we flood the economy with money, what will happen? I'm no economy professor. It just seems like there will be problem.
01-14-2005 10:52 AM
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Post: #17
 
JTiger Wrote:
Lethemeul Wrote:
JTiger Wrote:Do you suggest that we cut it all off now?  Leave all our senior and those that paid into the system out to dry?  I think that would create a huge problem of elderly homeless.  Not everyone is financial literate enough to properly diversify their portfolio.  Sometime poeple need help, and since you are looking out for #1 and no one else the government needs to help them.
Nobody is suggesting that we end SS payments to those who are already receiving them or to those who are going to be entering the system in the next 5 or so years.

The gov't takes more money from me for SS than I put into my 401(k), yet by the time I retire, my 401(k) will be worth more than all the money I put into SS. That's a problem.

Someone smarted than me will come up with the solution, and I can guarantee that nobody will be made homeless by the changes.
Another concern I have is the economy. If we flood the economy with money, what will happen? I'm no economy professor. It just seems like there will be problem.
As with anything, there will be hiccups. However, it WILL pan out. Bear in mind, with SS, the money the seniors paid in to their program is gone. gone, gone, gone. Where did it go? Talk to LBJ. It's nothing more than another frackin tax.
01-14-2005 11:14 AM
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Post: #18
 
JTiger Wrote:Another concern I have is the economy. If we flood the economy with money, what will happen? I'm no economy professor. It just seems like there will be problem.
If you're referring to the stock market it would be a great thing. When money goes into the market the market goes up. That's good.

Quote:
Quote:If...the govt. legislated that everybody pays the costs would have been cheaper and it would make for a better world.


Quote edited for effect
And that would be socialism at it's finest.

I think we can now easily establish that Dogger is a socialist.

The private sector is what built this country. Government does not, nor has it ever, created wealth. It merely redistributes it.

Quote:I like that government programs that are designed to secure the retirment of our elderly don't have that easy out.

This is the biggest misconception about Social Security. It was never meant to secur the retirement of the elderly. It was meant to provide SOME support in their retirement years but was never meant to BE their retirement. People still have to save, people still have to plan for the future. Social Security is not a safety net for people who don't want to take personal responsibility for their future.

Privatizing would work.
01-14-2005 11:23 AM
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Post: #19
 
<a href='http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj15n2-3-1.html' target='_blank'>Chile Opts Out</a>
01-14-2005 11:26 AM
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Post: #20
 
<a href='http://www.tppf.org/government/perspect/holbrook.html' target='_blank'>Galveston Opts Out</a>
01-14-2005 11:27 AM
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