Dogger Wrote:Let,

  From YOUR article.  The murder rate per population is a 1/3rd of what it is in the states.  You do the math Einstein!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going to go out on a limb here as math has never been my forte. If I've screwed it up, someone let me know and I vow to never take part in another thread that requires me to do math.

Anyway.

% of total population murdered in Canada: .0000473
% of the total population murdered in the US: .0000487

If the population of Canada was equal to that of the U.S., the total number of murders would be 13,975. The difference is 433.

Doesn't seem that Canada is a land of lollipops and hand-holding.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:I don't buy that gun crime is a result of fear. I don't think many criminals could honestly tell you, "Yeah, I shot the guy behind the counter in the store I robbed because I was scared."

ok maybe the deadbeat behind the corner store wasn't taken by fear mongers, but maybe the kids from Columbine were

Lethemeul Wrote: 
Doesn't seem that Canada is a land of lollipops and hand-holding.

From an email from my best friend who is from Kitchener-Waterloo, On(2-15-05).

Quote:It depends where they live just as it would here.  Where I live I think we do lock it, but if somebody forgot to, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

He's from a bedroom community. Apparently Canada is NOT what Dogger describes.

Also, why don't you compare the UK with the US Dogger? Trying to skew it your way? England also has violence issues. Hell, look at Washington DC.

Fanatical Wrote:ok maybe the deadbeat behind the corner store wasn't taken by fear mongers, but maybe the kids from Columbine were

Which kids? THe one's that killed everyone or the one's that got killed?

Dogger Wrote:Let,

From YOUR article. The murder rate per population is a 1/3rd of what it is in the states. You do the math Einstein!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:The removal of capital punishment from the Canadian Criminal Code in 1976 has not led to an increase in the murder rate in Canada. In fact, Statistics Canada reports that the murder rate for 2003 was the lowest since 1967 at 1.73 murders for every 100,000 population.

The total number of murders in Canada in 2003 was 548, 34 fewer than in 2002.

Murder rates in Canada are generally about a third of those in the United States.


Canadian Sentences for Murder

Here's the actual numbers....

U.S.

Murders - 14,408 Pop. 293,000,000 or 49.17 murders/million people

Canada

Murders - 528 Pop. 32,500,000 or 16.25 murders/million people

Therefore, Dogger is actually right for a change. Good job Dogger.....

For me the obvious difference is the population make-up. Moore-on tried to explain that this wasn't true by interviewing someone from Canada. He picked Windsor, ON, essentially a suburb of Detroit in Canada. In fact the guy he interviewed at this carnival was from Detroit over visiting. Good research Moore-on.

Lethemeul Wrote:I'm going to go out on a limb here as math has never been my forte.  If I've screwed it up, someone let me know and I vow to never take part in another thread that requires me to do math.

sorry lethe, but those numbers are wrong. please continue posting on all subjects however.

Last Updated January 2003

Canada and the Unitied States:
Comparing Firearm-Related Deaths and Crimes

Firearms Death (Rate per 100,000)*
Year
Canada US US/Can

Accidental Deaths with Firearms
1999
0.1 0.3 2.6x

Suicides with Firearms
1999
2.6 7.1 2.7x

Total Firearms Deaths
1999
3.3 10.7 3.2x

Crime Statistics (Rate per 100,000)
Year
Canada US US/Can

Murders with Firearms
2001
0.55 3.6 6.5x

Murders with Handguns
2001
0.35 2.8 8.0x

Murders without Guns
2001
1.23 2.0 1.6x

Robberies with Guns
2001
14 62 4.4x

Robberies without Guns
2001
74 87 1.2x


Prepared By:
Department of Justice Canada, January 2003

References:

Statistics Canada (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics): Homicide Survey

Statistics Canada (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics): Canadian Crime Statistics

US Department of Justice: Sourcebook of Criminal Justice Statistics

SAFER-Net 2003


<a href='http://www.research.ryerson.ca/SAFER-Net/issues/C_USMY03.html' target='_blank'>Canada and the Unitied States:Comparing Firearm-Related Deaths and Crimes</a>


blah, you beat me to it.

I saw part of that movie. I was so scared of all the talk about killer bees in the movie that I went out and bought a gun. One of those bee killing guns.

Sorry but not only are Moore's arguments weak, his decision to present them in a convoluted manner lead me to believe he's trying to hide something. He jumps from topic to topic without any real transitions explaining why. If I'm going to watch a documentary, I'll stick to Nova. Moore can keep making his Pop Culture Documentaries, but he won't get any of my money.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Sorry but not only are Moore's arguments weak, his decision to present them in a convoluted manner lead me to believe he's trying to hide something. He jumps from topic to topic without any real transitions explaining why. If I'm going to watch a documentary, I'll stick to Nova. Moore can keep making his Pop Culture Documentaries, but he won't get any of my money.

This is what irritated me about the movie the most.

He presents all these arguments, wrong ones mostly, yet at the end when it comes time to offer a solution.....there isn't one. He offers no insight on to what would solve the problem.

It's a tactic indicative of the American left. Sob stories, horrific dooms day scenerios and apocolyptic predictions yet never once offering a solution past confiscate the guns or raise taxes.

blah Wrote:Murders - 14,408 Pop. 293,000,000 or 49.17 murders/million people

Canada

Murders - 528 Pop. 32,500,000 or 16.25 murders/million people

Therefore, Dogger is actually right for a change. Good job Dogger.....

Indeed.

At least I know the dang answer now.

Jay's response to my other question about K-W and Toronto:

Quote:Go to this site for information you can use.

<a href='http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728...28/d040728a.htm</a>

I know that violent crimes are not as prominent as white collar crimes,
and I think that is what this is saying.&nbsp; By looking at the list I
would say that dangerous crimes or more promintent in the smaller cities,
and you can see that Toronto is among the lowest in Canada.&nbsp; You see
Kitchener is one of the safest, and actuallt decreasing too, so my opinion
may be skewed.

Bottom line though, do I find it safer there, yea.&nbsp; It's not biased
like you probably think, I think it probably has to do with lack of
weapons.

There Are NUTS everywhere!!

Of course I disagree with him. I am not against keeping guns out of the hands of violent people, my contention is that the only ones that will abide by the damn law are the ones that wouldn't abuse it in the first place.

I like Chris Rock's answer. We don't have a gun problem we have a bullet problem. Tax bullets so they cost a thousand dollars a piece. ( I know niner another liberal tax idea :) ) So when someone gets shot you know they really deserve it. There wouldn't be collateral damage anymore. Whose going to waste a thousand on an innocent. Only the guilty will get shot!!!!

Dogger you are advocating a have vs have-not society?

Those who have bullets to kill people with and those who get hit hit by $1000 bullets.

There is still no correlation between the right to bear arms and crime. We live in a violent society, one that actually glorifies it. Killing has gone on since the beginning of time. A weapon is just a tool.

Wanna ban something? Ban lunatics.

I saw the movie a few years back, it was among the worst I've seen.

From a cinematic standpoint the cinematography and narration was very poor, also the storyline was virtually non existent and was ADD in presentation. Just what was the point of that movie again? The bomb making factory caused people to want to go to Kmart and buy bullets for their guns to kill kill kill kill.

I did not watch Fareinheit 911 based on the boredom experienced while watching Columbine and the over politicized/slanted/hateful mistruths passed along in the movies as fact. Fareinhype 911 was good though, I highly reccommend it, it carries far more credibility from its participants which include senior members of the Democratic party and influential Democratic players. I watch movies for entertainment, I disliked the movies due to the fact that they were not entertaining and carried a message that was nothing short of lies and propaganda to push a political agenda.

On to guns, gun laws in this nation are a complete joke , particularly here in California. The gun laws are far to bueracratic , impractical and nothing more than political tools to manipulate votes and an agenda. They simply make it more expensive and more difficult for law abiding citizens to obtain and use firearms, while doing very little to disuade and disallow criminals to obtain firearms. I own several firearms and am so restricted from using them here in California its becoming a bit ridiculous. Some states such as AZ, Co and Texas have much more liberal gun laws. The fact is and always has been that a vast majority of violent crimes by firearms are commited with illegally obtained / owned firearms. Wow I think Im gonna go purchase another firearm this weekend. :drink:

Dogger Wrote:I like Chris Rock's answer. We don't have a gun problem we have a bullet problem. Tax bullets so they cost a thousand dollars a piece. ( I know niner another liberal tax idea :) ) So when someone gets shot you know they really deserve it. There wouldn't be collateral damage anymore. Whose going to waste a thousand on an innocent. Only the guilty will get shot!!!!

Ouch. You really butchered a good routine. :cry:

RebelKev Wrote:There is still no correlation between the right to bear arms and crime. We live in a violent society, one that actually glorifies it. Killing has gone on since the beginning of time. A weapon is just a tool.

Wanna ban something? Ban lunatics.

For once, I agree with you. If we outlaw guns, you will see a rise in stabbings or beatings with baseball bats. Violent people will find a way to get the job done.

Let me recommend a few other great ones based on your liking of this.

- The Three Little Pigs
- Humpty Dumpty
- Little Red Riding Hood

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Let me recommend a few other great ones based on your liking of this.

- The Three Little Pigs
- Humpty Dumpty
- Little Red Riding Hood

I've seen the 3 little pigs, what a dirty movie....

And Little Red Riding Hood, ooh la la, when she takes on the big bad wolf.

JTiger Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:There is still no correlation between the right to bear arms and crime. We live in a violent society, one that actually glorifies it. Killing has gone on since the beginning of time. A weapon is just a tool.

Wanna ban something? Ban lunatics.

For once, I agree with you. If we outlaw guns, you will see a rise in stabbings or beatings with baseball bats. Violent people will find a way to get the job done.

Outlaw guns, and people will still find a way to get one. It just means that the law-abiding citizen won't be allowed to have one to protect themselves.