http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

Endzone2 Wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

As much as people talk about the trouble that Obama would face becoming President because of his name and his race, I think Rudy faces bigger challenges.

This country likes Camelot. We want our president to be a reflection of our moral character. We like an ideal family. Its why we've never really felt entirely comfortable with the Clintons -- even those who like their policies. Its why we revered Jack Kennedy's white house when we had no idea he was unfaithful to Jackie.

Rudy's personal baggage is extreme and VERY OPEN. Its not that he's been divorced twice. He told his wife he was divorcing her at a public press conference. He's estranged from his kids, didn't even go to his son's graduation. He wasn't even aware his daughter got into Harvard, had to read about it in the news.

I'm someone who largely agrees with Giuliani on most issues -- aside from the war. But I don't think that he's electable.

Particularly if he is running against Obama. Who, despite being black and having a funny name that makes some people think he's Muslim, has a family that LOOKS and ACTS like the typical ideal American family. We do want a President that has his **** together in his personal life, if it can be at all avoided. Anything else not only greatly undermines the all important "likability factor', it undermines confidence in where his priorities are and whether he shares our values.

I know he's leading in all the polls, but I really doubt he can make it to the nomination with a "creep factor" this high. Honestly as a Democrat I wouldn't even vote for a guy in our primary with this personal background -- I can't imagine rank and file republicans doing it. He can only ride 9/11 so far.

Endzone2 Wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_ru...liani.html

"Yes, Rudy Giuliani Is a Conservative"

read it, you may be suprised on several things. The guy is going to state that the only real power the Presidency has on Abortion is appointing Judges that are constructionist, i.e. in the mold of Scaila/Thomas/Roberts/Alito....and that he thinks those type of issues should be handled with the states.

If he gets nominated he will likely tap Newt as his VP.

OUGwave Wrote:Particularly if he is running against Obama. Who, despite being black and having a funny name that makes some people think he's Muslim, has a family that LOOKS and ACTS like the typical ideal American family.

FWIW, his father was a Muslim who became an atheist, so his name is ostensibly Muslim. His full name is Barack Hussein Obama. However, his parents split when he was 2 and he never really knew his father. IIRC, He attended Catholic as well as Islamic schools in the Phillipines. He converted to Christianity (probably from nothing in particular - his mother was an anthropologist, and generally seems to have been secular) sometime after he moved to Chicago. So, it's no accident that he has a Muslim sounding name.

I linked in the Mark Steyn thread to a site by a bible thumpin' son of a very famous Theologian....if you look around on his site under politics you'll see he's basically endorsing Rudy and why. He knows him personally for starters, says he may not vote for him in primary due to social concerns but would definitely in the general eleciton and says why.


Obama has admitted to snorting coke and worse is on record voting in favor of Live Birth Abortions, not partial but live birth. Plus most importantly he will not nominate constructionist judges.

I45owl Wrote:

OUGwave Wrote:Particularly if he is running against Obama. Who, despite being black and having a funny name that makes some people think he's Muslim, has a family that LOOKS and ACTS like the typical ideal American family.

FWIW, his father was a Muslim who became an atheist, so his name is ostensibly Muslim. His full name is Barack Hussein Obama. However, his parents split when he was 2 and he never really knew his father. IIRC, He attended Catholic as well as Islamic schools in the Phillipines. He converted to Christianity (probably from nothing in particular - his mother was an anthropologist, and generally seems to have been secular) sometime after he moved to Chicago. So, it's no accident that he has a Muslim sounding name.

His grandfather was a Muslim.

His father was an athiest from as soon as he could really form his own opinion.

He never really knew his father.

His mother was a Christian and he was mostly raised her and his Christian grandparents. However, he was more of an athiest until he was in his twenties, when he was doing community organizing in Chicago and saw the power that the black church had in the lives of the people he was working with. So he was baptized. He never "converted" to Christianity. He was never a Muslim.

He never lived in the Philippines. He did spend some time as a child in Indonesia and went to a secular-minded school where students did study the Qu'ran. But it was not a "religious school" in the sense that we know them today. There's a CNN story on youtube you can look up, I'm too lazy right now.

He ne

GGniner Wrote:I linked in the Mark Steyn thread to a site by a bible thumpin' son of a very famous Theologian....if you look around on his site under politics you'll see he's basically endorsing Rudy and why. He knows him personally for starters, says he may not vote for him in primary due to social concerns but would definitely in the general eleciton and says why.


Obama has admitted to snorting coke and worse is on record voting in favor of Live Birth Abortions, not partial but live birth. Plus most importantly he will not nominate constructionist judges.

Thats not the issue in the thread. The article above, if you read it, is not about Giuliani's views on social issues. Its about his very shady behavior towards his family, and the fact that his kids barely talk to him mostly because they can't stand how he treated their mother, or his new wife.

Obama did experiment with cocaine in the past, when he was a teenager. So did G.W. Bush. The difference is that Obama will admit to it publicly and isn't afraid to talk about it.

You're going to have to get some new talking points.

GGniner Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_ru...liani.html

"Yes, Rudy Giuliani Is a Conservative"

read it, you may be suprised on several things. The guy is going to state that the only real power the Presidency has on Abortion is appointing Judges that are constructionist, i.e. in the mold of Scaila/Thomas/Roberts/Alito....and that he thinks those type of issues should be handled with the states.

If he gets nominated he will likely tap Newt as his VP.

The thread is not about his policy bonafides with conservatives, its about how he has treated his family like trash. Telling your wife you were divorcing her at a press conference! No wonder his kids won't talk to him.

The point is, regardless of policy, this guy doesn't reflect family values, conservatives tend to not like those people in the white house. Rudy is not the GOP savior, sorry. His personal behavior and treatment of women will give people the creeps, just like they did with Clinton.

OUGwave Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

http://www.city-journal.org/html/17_1_ru...liani.html

"Yes, Rudy Giuliani Is a Conservative"

read it, you may be suprised on several things. The guy is going to state that the only real power the Presidency has on Abortion is appointing Judges that are constructionist, i.e. in the mold of Scaila/Thomas/Roberts/Alito....and that he thinks those type of issues should be handled with the states.

If he gets nominated he will likely tap Newt as his VP.

The thread is not about his policy bonafides with conservatives, its about how he has treated his family like trash. Telling your wife you were divorcing her at a press conference! No wonder his kids won't talk to him.

The point is, regardless of policy, this guy doesn't reflect family values, conservatives tend to not like those people in the white house. Rudy is not the GOP savior, sorry. His personal behavior and treatment of women will give people the creeps, just like they did with Clinton.

Sadly, very sadly, I must admit that I agree with Wave about Rudy. At this point, I haven't found a Repub that I will vote for, and I am a registered Repub.

OUGwave Wrote:Rudy is not the GOP savior, sorry. His personal behavior and treatment of women will give people the creeps

I never said he was a "savior", Hillary Clinton is the GOP's savior and shall lead the party to pragmatism.


Ronald Reagan wasn't the greatest parent or husband in the world either, see Fredo Corleone(i.e. Ron Reagan Jr.).....plus he was divorced. What is important are the pro-family policies, which I anticipated Guilani getting on the side of. Men who are work-aholics tend to have this issue, not to make excuses but no one is perfect......its important that flaw doesn't creep into the whitehouse

I probably will not vote for Guilani in primary, but I would in a heart beat over Hillary/Obama/Edwards/pick a socialist, from the dem side.

I think the GOP primary will be very interesting to watch, especially when the Guilani drag photos are released.

Well, I'm a conservative, and I haven't found one either. However, Guiliani might have a chance for my vote if he comes clean about his stance on gun control.

McCain, hell f'n no. Anti-1st Amendment.

Romney, same thing. He was instrumental in the debate for standardized healthcare in Massachusetts.

RebelKev Wrote:Well, I'm a conservative, and I haven't found one either. However, Guiliani might have a chance for my vote if he comes clean about his stance on gun control.

McCain, hell f'n no. Anti-1st Amendment.

Romney, same thing. He was instrumental in the debate for standardized healthcare in Massachusetts.

What about Huckabee? For my money, he's the strongest pure candidate in the field, not taking into account name recognition (And speaking objectively of course; its clear I don't agree with him on most issues).

OUGwave Wrote:What about Huckabee? For my money, he's the strongest pure candidate in the field, not taking into account name recognition (And speaking objectively of course; its clear I don't agree with him on most issues).

I don't know too much about him. Has he announced his candidacy?

RebelKev Wrote:

OUGwave Wrote:What about Huckabee? For my money, he's the strongest pure candidate in the field, not taking into account name recognition (And speaking objectively of course; its clear I don't agree with him on most issues).

I don't know too much about him. Has he announced his candidacy?

Yep. Well, exploratory anyway. But I don't know the last time someone formed one without getting in.

http://www.explorehuckabee.com/

Rigid conservatives might view him as a mixed bag -- good on the social issues, but maybe not as good on taxes and spending. But he's a pretty likeable and charming guy, an effective communicator. I think I'd make him the dark horse. Its kind of strange, but this year is setting up as the first one in ages where a dark horse may likely emerge on the GOP side. Its much more of a democratic phenomenon.

OUGwave Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:

OUGwave Wrote:What about Huckabee? For my money, he's the strongest pure candidate in the field, not taking into account name recognition (And speaking objectively of course; its clear I don't agree with him on most issues).

I don't know too much about him. Has he announced his candidacy?

Yep. Well, exploratory anyway. But I don't know the last time someone formed one without getting in.

http://www.explorehuckabee.com/

Rigid conservatives might view him as a mixed bag -- good on the social issues, but maybe not as good on taxes and spending. But he's a pretty likeable and charming guy, an effective communicator. I think I'd make him the dark horse. Its kind of strange, but this year is setting up as the first one in ages where a dark horse may likely emerge on the GOP side. Its much more of a democratic phenomenon.

I agree. Conservatives are pissed at RINO's like Bush. The other names out there are Duncan Hunter, Ron Paul, Tom Tancredo and somebody mentioned Huckabee. I still think the Republicans will guarantee themselves defeat without a true conservative.

Maybe we can at least get a president that will let the National Guard load their weapons and let other officers actually shot at people if they refuse to stop--ain't that right Kev!!???

OUGwave Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

As much as people talk about the trouble that Obama would face becoming President because of his name and his race, I think Rudy faces bigger challenges.

This country likes Camelot. We want our president to be a reflection of our moral character. We like an ideal family. Its why we've never really felt entirely comfortable with the Clintons -- even those who like their policies. Its why we revered Jack Kennedy's white house when we had no idea he was unfaithful to Jackie.

Rudy's personal baggage is extreme and VERY OPEN. Its not that he's been divorced twice. He told his wife he was divorcing her at a public press conference. He's estranged from his kids, didn't even go to his son's graduation. He wasn't even aware his daughter got into Harvard, had to read about it in the news.

I'm someone who largely agrees with Giuliani on most issues -- aside from the war. But I don't think that he's electable.

Particularly if he is running against Obama. Who, despite being black and having a funny name that makes some people think he's Muslim, has a family that LOOKS and ACTS like the typical ideal American family. We do want a President that has his **** together in his personal life, if it can be at all avoided. Anything else not only greatly undermines the all important "likability factor', it undermines confidence in where his priorities are and whether he shares our values.

I know he's leading in all the polls, but I really doubt he can make it to the nomination with a "creep factor" this high. Honestly as a Democrat I wouldn't even vote for a guy in our primary with this personal background -- I can't imagine rank and file republicans doing it. He can only ride 9/11 so far.

I think for the most part it was the press that revered the whole Camelot theme as they created it.
We quickly forget that JFK won the Presidency on the slimmest of margins thanks to a bunch of dead people in Chicago voting and his father paying off half of West Virginia.
He was a very unpopular President in much of America and was in Dallas to try and drum up support in a state he would most likely lose in the next election.
I think the bar for our POTUS has been forever lowered by the impeachment of Nixon to the Clinton scandals. Most Americans now realize that our politicians are not saints and were never saints. If you study political campaigns in America going back to the early 1800's you will see scandal and political mud slinging that would make today's campaigns look like amateurs. The press loved JFK so they gave him a pass on his 50 state adultery campaign and presented America with an image of a perfect White House family.
With today's 24hr media, blogs etc.. this will never happen again. Almost everything these candidates do or say is recorded by somebody...ie Senator George Allans makaka comment, so the Camelot candidate is probably never coming back.

ShoreBuc Wrote:

OUGwave Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/5...3782c.html

As much as people talk about the trouble that Obama would face becoming President because of his name and his race, I think Rudy faces bigger challenges.

This country likes Camelot. We want our president to be a reflection of our moral character. We like an ideal family. Its why we've never really felt entirely comfortable with the Clintons -- even those who like their policies. Its why we revered Jack Kennedy's white house when we had no idea he was unfaithful to Jackie.

Rudy's personal baggage is extreme and VERY OPEN. Its not that he's been divorced twice. He told his wife he was divorcing her at a public press conference. He's estranged from his kids, didn't even go to his son's graduation. He wasn't even aware his daughter got into Harvard, had to read about it in the news.

I'm someone who largely agrees with Giuliani on most issues -- aside from the war. But I don't think that he's electable.

Particularly if he is running against Obama. Who, despite being black and having a funny name that makes some people think he's Muslim, has a family that LOOKS and ACTS like the typical ideal American family. We do want a President that has his **** together in his personal life, if it can be at all avoided. Anything else not only greatly undermines the all important "likability factor', it undermines confidence in where his priorities are and whether he shares our values.

I know he's leading in all the polls, but I really doubt he can make it to the nomination with a "creep factor" this high. Honestly as a Democrat I wouldn't even vote for a guy in our primary with this personal background -- I can't imagine rank and file republicans doing it. He can only ride 9/11 so far.

I think for the most part it was the press that revered the whole Camelot theme as they created it.
We quickly forget that JFK won the Presidency on the slimmest of margins thanks to a bunch of dead people in Chicago voting and his father paying off half of West Virginia.
He was a very unpopular President in much of America and was in Dallas to try and drum up support in a state he would most likely lose in the next election.
I think the bar for our POTUS has been forever lowered by the impeachment of Nixon to the Clinton scandals. Most Americans now realize that our politicians are not saints and were never saints. If you study political campaigns in America going back to the early 1800's you will see scandal and political mud slinging that would make today's campaigns look like amateurs. The press loved JFK so they gave him a pass on his 50 state adultery campaign and presented America with an image of a perfect White House family.
With today's 24hr media, blogs etc.. this will never happen again. Almost everything these candidates do or say is recorded by somebody...ie Senator George Allans makaka comment, so the Camelot candidate is probably never coming back.

There's a difference in not being a saint and being Rudy Giuliani. This guy is LOW.