With some of the comments made by the players and the silence from the AD department, I am expecting something to happen here in the offseason. I don't know what it will be, but I think there are some internal problems that we may or may never know about, that need to be corrected. We'll see what happens; honestly, I don't know what to think or who to side with. I just want to get back to the times when UNC is a force to reckon with on a consistent basic in college hoops.

I'm sick of all the negativism and rumormongering. The vultures are already circling over on IC. They couldn't even enjoy a pretty decent season for a single day. I guess they don't think 11 more wins than the previous season is an improvement.

I don't know what will shake out, but all the griping didn't help the program any. If there's a problem, I expect Coach Smith would still have enough influence to have it handled in the off season in as civilized a fashion as possible.

I've never seen so many know it alls contradicting each other. Bunch of
"inner circle" wannabees. Sorry for the rant, but I'm just fed up with people tearing down a program that was on its way to a comeback.

Again, Bomber, you seem to find the head of the nail!

<a href='http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/special_packages/marchmania/5500909.htm' target='_blank'>Here</a> is an interesting article from the Charlotte Observer.

Quote:The University of North Carolina is considering firing third-year coach Matt Doherty and apparently is poised to make a second run at Roy Williams of Kansas if that happens, according to sources close to the situation.

The players met with Baddour as a group yesterday and individually today.

In addition, it looks like Wojik is in the running for the Wright State job. No offense to Wojik, but I would love to seem him go. This would open up a spot for Phil Ford, which could possibly be the best outcome of this mess.

The bottom line is that Baddour has been awful, and in this type of situation, any decision can be viewed as the wrong one; but this scenario could have easily been avoided. Baddour is the one that must go, he has already done an awful job already.

It is interesting, because ESPN is reporting that Doherty will stay while newspapers are reporting that he is out. Meanwhile, some of these stupid "I live on the message board people" who claim they have good sources are giving conflicting statements; some say Doherty is long gone, while others say that talk of him going is absurd.

I don't know what to think. I wonder if there will be an official decision or statement, and if so, when it will be.

Please chime in folks, we need to get some discussion here about this.



<!--EDIT|hoops13|Mar 28 2003, 09:12 PM-->

I'm with you -- can we please just get a few more conflicting reports out there??? I don't think there are enough already....

I've decided to just wait and see and not get up in arms. I hope we have some wise people calling the shots (somehow, I doubt it).

-JD

i say give him one more year, The teamhas def shown improvement this year(although you could argue that is just due to the better players).

i really dont know that much about phil ford, would he really make that much of a difference? if so, how about as a head coach?

so yes, give doh another year, but if we dont make the tourney, :wave:

When you're starting from scratch, practically, it takes about three years for a coach to turn a team around and get their own players etc.
He came in late on recruiting his first year and did what he did with players from another regime. In some ways, the defections last year speeded up the process of transition to a more athletic, defense oriented style of play.

This year they paid the price for youth, inexperience and lack of seasoned veterans. That nucleus takes time to build. Coach Smith used to say that it took players at least a year to get comfortable with his defensive schemes.

It's funny that none of these supposed personality problems of Doherty's didn't surface to some extent at Davidson, Kansas or Notre Dame. Yes, there were some who thought he was very intense, but not abusive.

The real problem, as I see it, is the perception of Doherty and therefore the program. Whether it is true or not, it has grown to have a life of its own so it is just as bad as if it were true. In some ways I fault the media, message boards, and moneyed powers for buying into it, making statements without proof or telling tales out of school. It might be better now for the University and Coach Doherty to just move on. I suspect that Matt cares enough about the school and the team to realize this and accept this type of decision, even though it would hurt terribly. On the other hand, Dean Smith didn't move on when he was hung in effigy. Of course he had the support of his players and the Chancellor.

Carolina has taken pride in its willingness to give coaches time to establish a program and prove themselves, even when it hurt. Look at Mack Brown's 2-20 start. Carolina has also been known for its "family" and keeping them in the program. From that standpoint the Torbush hire made sense. Whether he was given too much time to prove himself will always be a matter of debate.

Doherty has represented the University well in his dealings with the media and as a recruiter. He is apparently honest, hard-working, and loves UNC. I would hope that if they're considering firing him that they have evidence of serious problems that we don't really know everything about. If they sacrifice him to satisfy the media, fat cat alumni who are hung up on Phil Ford or something, or players with tender egos and pushy parents, then I will be very disappointed and saddened.

As I watch some "fans" spewing hatred for Doherty (many of whom called out for Guthridge's head). I wonder who really could make them happy. Coach Smith got criticized for little things when he was winning and when the team lost a few games some folks said the game had passed him by. Would Larry Brown be any better than Doherty? Roy Williams? George Karl? Maybe, but maybe not. They all have their drawbacks too. After all, they're human. In the back of my head I keep hearing that saying "Be careful what you wish for, you might get it."

I'm ready for the turmoil to end, but I fear that it won't. It may have now become the nature of the beast, much like at UCLA.

The Bomber Wrote:It's funny that none of these supposed personality problems of Doherty's didn't surface to some extent at Davidson, Kansas or Notre Dame. Yes, there were some who thought he was very intense, but not abusive.

Good post Bomber,

But I have to ask, doesn't it seem that the schools that Doherty previously coached at are none the worse for wear and have actually flourished since he left? Although he was not head coach at all these schools he must have been a major player because of the consideration given to him as a potential head coach. Maybe this is just coincidence.

Do you guys think players will leave if Doherty is granted another year? Or is the possible transfer of players a part of the equation? Would the school let the coach go to retain student-athletes? It would be hard for me to believe if the player-coach relationship is already soured that there is much that can be done to improve it.
I think that in the end the alumni with the fat wallets will make this decision and I suspect they are more concerned about the overall image of their tax write-off rather than how many ex-Tar Heels are in the NBA and that could go either way.

doh

The best outcome of all this would be this chronology:

Dick gives Matt his support and says he will return as coach.
Wojik is hired at Wright State.
Phil Ford is hired as an assistant.
Moesor fires Dick.

I have thought about this long and hard for the last week, and I have come to a conclusion. The administration must come out and voice their support for Matt Doherty. Matt loves UNC with a passion and his work ethic is incredible. He will do everything in his power off the court and behind the scenes to get us back to prominence. He is still young and still learning. It is incredible how much he has improved in just his three years here at UNC. If you look back on this season, you will see that we beat a 2,3,4,5,6, seeds. We beat 4 teams that were in the Sweet 16. And we got 19 wins with the youngest team in the country, playing possibly the toughest schedule in the nation, and going without a center for most of the season. Matt and his staff are taking us where we need to go, and we can't let a bunch of pre-madonnas run him out. In addition, I don't think there is anyone that could come in and do a better job than Matt. Every coach has to be given some time; a coach can't establish himself in 3 years. If we get a new coach, we will have to start all over. I do not want to become UCLA post-Wooden. Our administration needs to get behind Matt and the players need to shut up and just play. We need to let Matt do his job, because he is doing a fine job of it. The problem in this entire situation is Dick Baddour. If there is anyone who needs an "evaluation" it is him, because I can tell you that it is quite rare when he does his job well. Let's all hope that the right announcement is made soon: that Matt and his staff will remain in charge of the UNC hoops program.

Hoops, I'd like to add one thing to your outcomes.

After Baddour expresses his support for Coach Doherty, he announces that he and the coach are willing to help anyone who is unhappy to transfer to another school of their choice. Then, he can thank them for their efforts and wish them good luck in their future endeavors.

Kansas advances to the Final Four. There is speculation that we will go after Roy again, if Dick is done with Matt. I think it is pure nonsense; I don't know why he would come now if he didn't come then. I guess there are some issues with the Kansas AD and Roy, and I don't know how Kansas going to the Final Four affects Roy taking the UNC job. Dick better be thinking this all through and consulting the right people before he makes a stupid decision. I think that if Matt was fired and Dick decided to conduct another search for a head coach, I would turn my back on the program. Doherty should not be fired, and even if he is, Dick better KNOW FOR CERTAIN that the coach they want will take the job before Matt is fired.

This could all be solved if Dick kept Matt and, as The Bomber said, announces that he and the coach are willing to help anyone who is unhappy to transfer to another school of their choice. Then, Dick and Matt can thank them for their efforts and wish them good luck in their future endeavors.



<!--EDIT|hoops13|Mar 29 2003, 10:33 PM-->

Speculate on this:

<a href='http://www.journalnow.com/wsj/sports/MGBMHQHHWDD.html' target='_blank'>http://www.journalnow.com/wsj/sports/MGBMHQHHWDD.html</a>

doh

Forte's involvement with Doherty has apparently affected him for life. I was thinking Doh should stay but now I dont' know.

doh


This from the Seattle Times, after the Sonics suspended Joseph Forte earlier this week for "conduct detrimental to the team."

Forte was involved in an altercation with teammate Jerome James in the locker room after the Sonics lost to Washington on Wednesday night.

"Reportedly, Forte was singing in the shower to express happiness for the Wizards' Michael Jordan and Brendan Haywood, both fellow North Carolina Tar Heels," the Times' Jayda Evans wrote. "James didn't appreciate it and approached the guard about it, according to Forte. The latter was in a towel and became fearful when he was approached by James, and so he fought back."

James later told the Times he was simply trying to "mentor" Forte as a veteran.

We've heard for years about Carolina tradition and the Carolina family and all. But until now, nobody knew that Tar Heel alums in the NBA actually sang in honor of each other after losses.

Wonder why Forte wasn't singing in the shower for Jerry Stackhouse, too?

:rolleyes:

I am hearing that the players will leave if Doherty is retained, to that I say: YEAH RIGHT! Think about it:

Felton: He is warrior and has said over and over he wants no other coach. He will return for sure.

Noel: Noel is a local kid and won't go anywhere. Doherty is the only person who put faith into him as a hoops players and look what has happened: he has done great. He owes Doherty a lot.

Jawad: Look how much he has improved since his freshmen year. With Sean back, Jawad will be able to play inside and outside, and he will be one of the best offensive threats in the league. Where is he really going to go? He is close to the pros, and I just don't see him sitting out a year.

McCants: Let's face it, Rashad is a pyschological mess. He is a great player that I love having, and he isn't going anywhere. He isn't ready for the pros, and I from the attitude I have seen him have, he would never be able to sit out a year.

Scott: When given playing time at the end of the year, Melvin blossomed. He is the only true SG we have, and if he continues to shoot the ball, value the ball, and play defense as he has, he well get the playing time he deserves.

Manuel: He has started probably 80% of his games as a Tar Heel, and he is just going into his junior year. Where else is he going to go and get that kind of playing time?!?!?

May: If anyone is to leave, I think it would be May. May has continually repeated that he wants to stay at UNC and play with the guys. Of course his dad doesn't want him in Chapel Hill, but there has to be a time when Sean tells his dad that it is his life and that he will make his own decisions. Where is Sean going to go where he can have a better point guard that Raymond Felton feeding him the ball?!?!? He has already sat out one year, I don't see how he could sit out another. If anyone leaves it will be Sean, and it would be because he failed to stand up to his father.

In my opinion, these players are just threatening to leave. If Doherty is retained, 1-2 may leave, but probably not 3-4. Baddour can't let the threats of some kids run out the coach he has believed in. If Doherty is fired, it better not be because of these threats from the players.



<!--EDIT|hoops13|Mar 31 2003, 09:59 AM-->

I, for one, am not worried about it. I am willing to wait and see.

I'm taking the same approach that Rick is. I just wish that Baddour would go the hell ahead and do something or come out strongly supporting Doherty.

I keep telling myself that there has to be a method to Dickie's madness. If not, then Dickie is going to find himself out on the street....

-JD

The fact that he hasn't done anything "yet" makes me think that there's some truth to the rumors about another coach. It could be that Baddour's waiting until the end of the NCAA tournament to finalize things and then make an announcement.

I"m not sure that's a good thing.

Here's what *won't* work: We wait until after the NCAA tourney and Roy says no... then we wait until whenever on Larry Brown, and he says no too. So, a few weeks from now, Dickie comes out with an endorsement of Doherty.

That ain't gonna fly -- not anymore. Make a decision on Doherty NOW!

-JD