Would adding Virginia Tech alone be enough?

I still believe Miami will join the ACC, afterall, even the State's Attorney of Florida was helping them with their lawsuit the other BE schools had filed against them.

MsNole: Maybe. But I don't think that the ACC schools understand the level of anger that this expansion vote has created at Miami.

The Canes feelings toward certain ACC schools and the way the process unfolded is starting to approach a U.S./France type level of animosity.

Just 2 days ago I thought this thing was a layup ... but instead of subsiding, the anger seems to grow by the day.


Heck, Miami & VT was exactly what I wanted, and yet even I am starting to get angry over this. The feeling that Miami was jerked around, disrespected and taken for granted is hard to shake.

We are being asked to bring our football program and all the revenue and TV exposure that comes with it to the ACC ... but what we asked for in return is not being delivered. Not even 1/2 of what we asked for.

We were prepared to swallow the bitter pill of only getting 1 of the schools we wanted to come along, but this is a bit much.

:mad:

BTW add the conference championship game to the list of things that we wanted and aren't getting.


The "promise" of adding a 12th school eventually or getting the NCAA rule changed is just that ... a promise.

And we've heard enough of those already.

I think we should invite Kentucky or Louisville. I want a team that can play some basketball.

XX2 Wrote:MsNole: Maybe. But I don't think that the ACC schools understand the level of anger that this expansion vote has created at Miami.

The Canes feelings toward certain ACC schools and the way the process unfolded is starting to approach a U.S./France type level of animosity.

Just 2 days ago I thought this thing was a layup ... but instead of subsiding, the anger seems to grow by the day.


Heck, Miami & VT was exactly what I wanted, and yet even I am starting to get angry over this. The feeling that Miami was jerked around, disrespected and taken for granted is hard to shake.

We are being asked to bring our football program and all the revenue and TV exposure that comes with it to the ACC ... but what we asked for in return is not being delivered. Not even 1/2 of what we asked for.

We were prepared to swallow the bitter pill of only getting 1 of the schools we wanted to come along, but this is a bit much.

:mad:

You're right. Certain ACC schools could care less about football and their teams show it. FSU wants Miami in our conference, that you can bet on. I think FSU is doing all it can to get you in.

Another school that I think is being considering is Notre Dame. But time will only tell.

MsNole: There isn't a Canes fan that doesn't understand that FSU was pushing hard for this. But at some point ... it's just not a good deal for Miami to join, and IMO we've passed that point.

As for the possible "12th team" & Notre Dame ... the Big Ten has been holding a spot for the Irish for years and they never came. The Big East has also been courting them for years and letting them leech off the conference, and they never came.

Is the ACC going to become involved in the same nonsense?

"Pursuing Notre Dame" is nothing more than an excuse for a conference to do nothing. Notre Dame takes in $15-20 mil every single season. They will never join a conference for football.

IMO Miami should pull out of the expansion and inform the ACC that we'll consider an offer to be school #12 ... but not school #11.

<a href='http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/college_sports/article/0,1651,TCP_1055_2069443,00.html' target='_blank'>Article on ACC Expansion</a>

XX2 Wrote:MsNole: Maybe. But I don't think that the ACC schools understand the level of anger that this expansion vote has created at Miami.

The Canes feelings toward certain ACC schools and the way the process unfolded is starting to approach a U.S./France type level of animosity.

Just 2 days ago I thought this thing was a layup ... but instead of subsiding, the anger seems to grow by the day.


Heck, Miami & VT was exactly what I wanted, and yet even I am starting to get angry over this. The feeling that Miami was jerked around, disrespected and taken for granted is hard to shake.

We are being asked to bring our football program and all the revenue and TV exposure that comes with it to the ACC ... but what we asked for in return is not being delivered. Not even 1/2 of what we asked for.

We were prepared to swallow the bitter pill of only getting 1 of the schools we wanted to come along, but this is a bit much.

:mad:

XX2 -- You'll get to vent your flustrations come football season -- ESPECIALLY at the football bottom feeders Duke and UNC

roxborobluedevil Wrote:I think we should invite Kentucky or Louisville. I want a team that can play some basketball.

The ACC is going to become a "Top Heavy" Football
League.

UVA and Maryland are now becoming Top 25 teams.

Tech and Clemson have both "name and tradition"

Florida State won more games in the decade of the
90's than any team in history.

VPI and Miami are both powerhouses...

NC State is committed to Football being "Top Dog"

I think Wake would like to compete but are short
on resources.

Add Cleveland State to your non-conference slate.

AND why would you want to add another basketball
power..."Hell, you can't win in Tallahassee anymore!"

XX2 Wrote:MsNole: There isn't a Canes fan that doesn't understand that FSU was pushing hard for this. But at some point ... it's just not a good deal for Miami to join, and IMO we've passed that point.

As for the possible "12th team" & Notre Dame ... the Big Ten has been holding a spot for the Irish for years and they never came. The Big East has also been courting them for years and letting them leech off the conference, and they never came.

Is the ACC going to become involved in the same nonsense?

"Pursuing Notre Dame" is nothing more than an excuse for a conference to do nothing. Notre Dame takes in $15-20 mil every single season. They will never join a conference for football.

IMO Miami should pull out of the expansion and inform the ACC that we'll consider an offer to be school #12 ... but not school #11.

The ACC will make a run at Notre Dame and
possibly Penn State.

But, I don't believe it will be a long courtship.

However...it is worth the attempt.

There is always USF and UCF sitting out there.

Both could "compete in football" (I didn't write
win titles...I wrote...compete) They both can
compete and win in Baseball.

Either one would boast the 4th largest stadium
in the league.

Either one bring a major newspaper and a metro
tv market.

Either one bring more access to recruiting rich
Florida.

With three Fla schools in the league...Other ACC
schools would gain an advantage over other
schools, because they could promise their recruits
the chance to play in their home state SIX times
during their careers. No one can come close to
that.

Plus with divisional set-ups...that make sense...
If you add a third Florida school...In Division play
you could keep the "Carolina Triangle" intact.

EX: North: VPI,UVA,UMD,NCST,UNC & Duke
South: FSU,UM,CLEMSON,TECH,WFU UCF/USF

It is worth a look at ND or Penn State...but in the
end...the best addition will be to bring in UCF or USF

I have a gut feeling that Miami will decline to join the league until we find out who the 12th team will be. I didnt realize until XX2 pointed out that the main reason for Miami's interest in joining the league was to be in a situation where they could play in a conference championship game. Because of that I think they will decline the invitation unless they know for sure that we will get a championship game with just 11 teams. This would be perfectly fine with me, while Miami would have been the biggest prize of all in expansion (from a football standpoint) VT has an outstanding football program, definitley top 10 in the country possibly even top 5. At this point they are a better program than FSU. Adding VT potentially gives the ACC two super powers in football (if FSU can reverse what I would view as a downward trend) The ACC the past few years IMO has been a superior football conference to the Big East and switching leagues should help their BCS numbers. Adding VT is a great move, they have a great football program, and I feel that it is getting better. I happen to love Beamer ball and no longer having to play second fiddle to Miami they will be the top dog in the ACC. I dont think having a conference championship game is really that big of a deal, only 2 of the 6 (now 5 I guess :laugh: ) major conferences hold one and neither the PAC ten nor the Big 10 seem to be trying to add the necessary teams or team to get one. All of the Miami controversy has overshadowed the fact that we landed a fantastic school from a football standpoint. Even better, we should be able to continue round robin basketball and football scheduling. So I say if Miami doesnt want to join any more they can suck an egg. After thinking about it, I may not want them anymore...we certainly dont NEED them.

Also I have a question...If Miami does indeed decline the invitation would they simply stay in the big east or would playing football as an independent be an option?

This leads me to one final point...Even though I hate the Big East, if Miami chooses to stay, they would indeed Save the Conference. And the Big East may in turn would have to add atleast one football team and possibly 3 or 5 to become a 10 or 12 team football league.

The more I think about it, I think I would really like the ACC as a 10 team league...

Sorry for such a long post...sometimes I get on a roll and dont know when to stop :laugh:

And another reason I kinda hope Miami declines is that GTS will look dumb for putting up the Icon and all that stuff :laugh:

Quote:It is worth a look at ND or Penn State...but in the
end...the best addition will be to bring in UCF or USF

Paul: That's just the thing ... the ACC will only add a 12th team if Duke, N.C. & State decide to allow it. If they do decide to allow it, they will choose the school.

We have no say in the matter regardless of whether we join or not.

Quote: I have a gut feeling that Miami will decline to join the league until we find out who the 12th team will be.&nbsp; I didnt realize until XX2 pointed out that the main reason for Miami's interest in joining the league was to be in a situation where they could play in a conference championship game.&nbsp; Because of that I think they will decline the invitation unless they know for sure that we will get a championship game with just 11 teams.

That was one of the main issues for us, and we made that clear all throughout the negotiations. It was also one of the ACC's selling points.

That's why I can't understand why the ACC would make the invitation knowing full well that not even one of our concerns has been addressed. The ACC's attitude seems to be "Yeah, you're getting screwed. Yeah, you're supposed to be happy about it." :rolleyes:

Quote:I dont think having a conference championship game is really that big of a deal, only 2 of the 6 (now 5 I guess&nbsp; :laugh: ) major conferences hold one and neither the PAC ten nor the Big 10 seem to be trying to add the necessary teams or team to get one.

They also don't give each school in the conference a $10 mil payout. The reason that the ACC wanted Miami was too guarantee that the conference payout would increase or at the very least stay at it's current level.

If you feel that adding VT alone gets you there ... I'm inclined to let you prove it.

Quote:Also I have a question...If Miami does indeed decline the invitation would they simply stay in the big east or would playing football as an independent be an option?

Being an independent is definitely a viable option (ESPN beats down our door to televise games against such football giants as E.Carolina & Louisiana Tech), but I seriously doubt that Donna Shalala will choose to go that route unless she gets an indication from the SEC that they are interested in adding Miami.

The most likely scenario if we decline the ACC's invitation is Miami returning to the Big East until such time as a deal can be worked out with the SEC or the ACC ... or until the Big East gets it's act together.

XX2 Wrote:

Quote:It is worth a look at ND or Penn State...but in the
end...the best addition will be to bring in UCF or USF

Paul: That's just the thing ... the ACC will only add a 12th team if Duke, N.C. & State decide to allow it. If they do decide to allow it, they will choose the school.

We have no say in the matter regardless of whether we join or not.

That's the whole point that HAS been made.

This thing started over two years ago. When
Florida State along with the intial backing of
Clemson and Tech said..."We move to 12 yeams,
and have a league title game and increase revenues,
or we go somewhere else.

Well...the process has started. If NC State wants
to keep Amato (Alumnus or not) it WILL favor
expansion...or he'll be gone. So State is not a
roadblock.

I really do believe that some think there is a chance
of getting Notre Dame or Penn St...thus the reason
for the delay.

They'll expand to 12...Or Tech, Clemson, FSU and
from what I hear...Maryland will all depart for a league
with 12 teams in it.

This is the new ACC...

A in't
C arolina's
C onference

(anymore)

Quote:That's the whole point that HAS been made.

This thing started over two years ago.&nbsp; When
Florida State along with the intial backing of
Clemson and Tech said..."We move to 12 yeams,
and have a league title game and increase revenues,
or we go somewhere else.

Well...the process has started.&nbsp; If NC State wants
to keep Amato (Alumnus or not) it WILL favor
expansion...or he'll be gone.&nbsp; So State is not a
roadblock.

What do you mean they are not a roadblock? They just blocked the road.

Quote:They'll expand to 12...Or Tech, Clemson, FSU and
from what I hear...Maryland will all depart for a league
with 12 teams in it.

Yeah, that would do Miami a world of good. :rolleyes:

Besides ... where are they going to go? Do you really think that any of those schools are going to pay the ACC's exit fee just to move to the dying Big East, Conference USA or the MAC?

Face it ... this is IT. If a 12th team isn't secured now then we are at the mercy of the whims of the Carolina Cartel. This is the last bit of leverage that the football schools are ever going to have.

Once we are in, we are stuck. Miami will be stuck ... and FSU, Clemson, Georgia Tech & Maryland will be stuck right along with us.

Unfortunately, I doubt that Donna Shalala has the balls to hold out for a twelfth team before agreeing to join. :frown:

XX2 Wrote:Face it ... this is IT. If a 12th team isn't secured now then we are at the mercy of the whims of the Carolina Cartel. This is the last bit of leverage that the football schools are ever going to have.

I disagree big time!! They'd need to change the by-laws.

If Miami joins... the ACC would have 11 teams. 11-4 = 7

If all the ACC schools outside of NC voted yes to expand, there isn't dick the NC schools can do about it.

A 12th team would be secured. Trust me.

IT WILL HAPPEN. Mark my words here. Archive this post of mine in "My Controls" if you want. Not to be arrogant... but for once, I am absolutely right about this.

georgia_tech_swagger: My understanding is that ACC expansion requires a 3/4 vote in favor ... not 7 votes.

8 members -- Wake Forest (which was good in all scenarios) is still on board.