If you have seen BOTH of them play, who do you think is the better player?

Please don't comment unless you have seen BOTH PLAYERS THIS YEAR!!!

I realize the competition is much different. However, I'm making my analysis based on skill level.

I saw TY against Kirby. I have seen Shawne Williams play every game.

In my opinion, Shawne is a much better all-around player.
He handles the ball much better. He dribble drives better. He rebounds better. He has better post moves.

TY jumps better. His outside stroke may be slightly better. However. I would call it a tie.

Defensive ability is about the same.
Shawne has a better basketball IQ.

The only reason that I'm starting this discussion is to determine the best player to come out of Memphis since Penny Hardaway. The commentators and media people seem to be divided. Some say Shawne. Some say TY.

There is one thing that I know for sure. If TY had signed with Memphis and Shawne Williams returned for his second year. TY wouldn't be the star of the team.

Chime In!! What do you think?

tiger-tug Wrote:There is one thing that I know for sure. If TY had signed with Memphis and Shawne Williams returned for his second year. TY wouldn't be the star of the team.

I think Felton knew this too.

Very good grasshopper.

Great answer and I what I have thought also.
Doesn't matter for us cause we didn't need anyone with an" I have to be the star "agenda.
We only need team players for our system to work.

the first time I saw everything that Shawne Williams did on the floor to help his team offensively and defensively I turned to my friend and said that if TY is the best to come out of the city since Penny, then both SW and TY are better than Penny......and I say this without ever having seen TY play, but there is no way he is better than SW.............

What have you seen that I have missed that makes you think Williams is better than Penny? I'm not sure we'll ever see another one as good as Penny, much less better.

idroot4russia Wrote:What have you seen that I have missed that makes you think Williams is better than Penny? I'm not sure we'll ever see another one as good as Penny, much less better.

Post up game, rebounding, dribble drive all go to Shawne Williams. Free throws, three point shooting even. Defense to Penny. In my opinion, it appears, Shawne may be a tad better than Penny, who by the way, was not the college player Keith Lee was.

MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:

idroot4russia Wrote:What have you seen that I have missed that makes you think Williams is better than Penny? I'm not sure we'll ever see another one as good as Penny, much less better.

Post up game, rebounding, dribble drive all go to Shawne Williams. Free throws, three point shooting even. Defense to Penny. In my opinion, it appears, Shawne may be a tad better than Penny, who by the way, was not the college player Keith Lee was.

My how memory fades.

In his prime, Penny was unstopable in the post. Better defenders than Shawne has ever faced (Scotty Pippen for example) could not guard Penny in the post. Better dribble drive than Penny? I must have missed some games, I have not seen it. And I guess ou didnt mention passing because it would not support your argument, Penny was a great playmaker as well as a great scorer.

idroot4russia Wrote:

MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:

idroot4russia Wrote:What have you seen that I have missed that makes you think Williams is better than Penny? I'm not sure we'll ever see another one as good as Penny, much less better.

Post up game, rebounding, dribble drive all go to Shawne Williams. Free throws, three point shooting even. Defense to Penny. In my opinion, it appears, Shawne may be a tad better than Penny, who by the way, was not the college player Keith Lee was.

My how memory fades.

In his prime, Penny was unstopable in the post. Better defenders than Shawne has ever faced (Scotty Pippen for example) could not guard Penny in the post. Better dribble drive than Penny? I must have missed some games, I have not seen it. I'll give you rebounding. And I guess ou didnt mention passing because it would not support your argument, Penny was a great playmaker as well as a great scorer.

Remember that this is a comparison between TY and Shawne.

How did Penny get in the equation? Like Cal would say,"let's not lose our minds."

Last time I checked, number 25 was hanging in the rafters at FedEx Forum.

tiger-tug Wrote:If you have seen BOTH of them play, who do you think is the better player?

Please don't comment unless you have seen BOTH PLAYERS THIS YEAR!!!

I realize the competition is much different. However, I'm making my analysis based on skill level.

I saw TY against Kirby. I have seen Shawne Williams play every game.

In my opinion, Shawne is a much better all-around player.
He handles the ball much better. He dribble drives better. He rebounds better. He has better post moves.

TY jumps better. His outside stroke may be slightly better. However. I would call it a tie.

Defensive ability is about the same.
Shawne has a better basketball IQ.

The only reason that I'm starting this discussion is to determine the best player to come out of Memphis since Penny Hardaway. The commentators and media people seem to be divided. Some say Shawne. Some say TY.

There is one thing that I know for sure. If TY had signed with Memphis and Shawne Williams returned for his second year. TY wouldn't be the star of the team.

Chime In!! What do you think?

If we get Tyler Smith because TY didn't come here, then I'm much happier with that scenario. I'd be VERY happy that TY didn't come. I'd much rather have a 3 or 4 year talented player than another one-and-done. Cal shouldn't have wasted his time on TY. The main reason why we have finally broke the top 10 again is because Cal has recruited mostly top 100 3 or 4 year players the past couple years rather than the one-and-done's he focued on the first couple years he was here. I hope he continues this. He lapsed a little into his old ways again with TY though. If a one-and-done wants to come here and be a Tiger like Shawne Williams, let him. But don't ever make them a major focus on recruiting. The only one time I can recall a one-and-done paying off was with that guy who went to Syracuse a few years ago. But it's a VERY rare exception. 95% of the time you will be burned.

MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:

idroot4russia Wrote:What have you seen that I have missed that makes you think Williams is better than Penny? I'm not sure we'll ever see another one as good as Penny, much less better.

Post up game, rebounding, dribble drive all go to Shawne Williams. Free throws, three point shooting even. Defense to Penny. In my opinion, it appears, Shawne may be a tad better than Penny, who by the way, was not the college player Keith Lee was.

You must not have seen Hardaway much in high school. That kid was the truth and had everything in his arsenal. Williams is nice but it isn't even close.

scorpius Wrote:If we get Tyler Smith because TY didn't come here, then I'm much happier with that scenario.  I'd be VERY happy that TY didn't come.  I'd much rather have a 3 or 4 year talented player than another one-and-done. 

Cal shouldn't have wasted his time on TY.  The main reason why we have finally broke the top 10 again is because Cal has recruited mostly top 100 3 or 4 year players the past couple years rather than the one-and-done's he focued on the first couple years he was here. 

Cal has always gone after the studs. He's gotten some and lost some. We need to get Tyler Smith because it rounds out our recruiting by position:

PG - Willie Kemp
SG - Trevon Willis
SF - Tyler Smith (?)
PF - Pierre Niles
C - Hashim Bailey
2007 - Corey Stokes

That would give us 7 Top 100 recruits on our roster for the '0-6- '07 year.

IMO, Cal had to go after TY until the final bell rung. Once he and the staff realized that TY's recruitment was being controlled by others, it was too late. Weems and Robinson signed elsewhere.

If our competition for Tyler is Pittsburgh, Iowa and Arkansas, then I like our chances. Get him in for a visit. Perhaps the Gonzaga or Texas game.

idroot4russia Wrote:

MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:

idroot4russia Wrote:What have you seen that I have missed that makes you think Williams is better than Penny? I'm not sure we'll ever see another one as good as Penny, much less better.

Post up game, rebounding, dribble drive all go to Shawne Williams. Free throws, three point shooting even. Defense to Penny. In my opinion, it appears, Shawne may be a tad better than Penny, who by the way, was not the college player Keith Lee was.

My how memory fades.

In his prime, Penny was unstopable in the post. Better defenders than Shawne has ever faced (Scotty Pippen for example) could not guard Penny in the post. Better dribble drive than Penny? I must have missed some games, I have not seen it. I'll give you rebounding. And I guess ou didnt mention passing because it would not support your argument, Penny was a great playmaker as well as a great scorer.

Penny in the post? lol don't make me laugh. Penny was a oversized guard and weighed what, maybe 6'7" 180 lbs his first year ? I'll give you Penny on the passing. I'm not taking away anything from Penny. My memory has not faded. I do not remember Memphis posting up Hardaway (we did put the ball in his hands, just not down low) when we needed a basket like we have Shawne Williams. Hardaway did drive well, but I believe Shawne will convert better based on what I've seen. I will stand by my comparisons, I know it is early for Shawne Williams, and he has not played as extensively on this level as Penny. Guess we will find out. My decision is based on what I've seen to date. To date, I would say Shawne Williams is a smooth, as any Tiger I've ever seen in his first year. So I guess the test will be elite eight or better. We shall see. I like Penny, but I'd never, EVER, root for russia!

sportsfather Wrote:You must not have seen Hardaway much in high school. That kid was the truth and had everything in his arsenal. Williams is nice but it isn't even close.

True and TY is not either.

Both are obviously very good, the kids call Shawne my son, so my opinion might be biased, I did coach TY for 2 summers, SW for 3.
SW is more mature on the floor as far as letting the flow of the game come to him, keep in mind he's almost 3 years older than TY, some call it basketball IQ, TY sometimes forces shots or gets called for charges when he's out of control, TY has to play out of position at Mitchell, when you can use him on the perimeter like we did you get a sense of how special he really is, at times he's a human highlight film, he shoots it well from the peimeter, very well, SW as you've seen can be streaky, but when he's on, HE'S ON.
When I first met TY he already had an air of confidence about himself that caught you off guard for a kd of 14, it wasn't arrogance, it was a belief that was hard to measure.
SW on the other hand had to be convinced that he could be great, he see's it now.
The defining difference to me is that I've seen SW sacrifice in order for his team to win, winning means everything to him, you saw the tears after Duke, they were real. If you knew how much the kid had perservered it would make you appreciate him even more.
Things came easier for TY, the basketball world discovered him at a younger age than SW, doors were opened for TY that SW had to knock down.
Who's better? Time will tell. Baring injury, both should make alot of money playing a silly game.

Penny first made his name in the post, 8th, 9th grade, only after his So. year did he start to play on the perimeter more, remember who the PG at Treadwell was his first few years? Elliot Perry.
Penny really established himself nationally when as a So. he led our AAU team to a national title vs. a field of almost entirely the best Jrs. in america.

If youll remember in Penny's first year here, in the beginning it was Vaughn who was having the better year. Alot of it was the number of turnovers he would get because players werent ready
for his passes, and also that he had to gradually get used to the college game. Of course come time for our run to the Elite 8 he was one of the top 5 players in the country. That would be a tough act for Shawne to follow.
Penny's second year he had NO peers. Not Mashburn or Hill or any of them were as good as Penny. He could score at will. It was like DeAngelo and the football team, he was everything and they sent their best defenders in numbers after him yet he still did whatever he wanted.
I would hold off on the Penny comparisons until Shawne gets at least 50% of the way there.

alcalde Wrote:If youll remember in Penny's first year here, in the beginning it was Vaughn who was having the better year. Alot of it was the number of turnovers he would get because players werent ready
for his passes, and also that he had to gradually get used to the college game. Of course come time for our run to the Elite 8 he was one of the top 5 players in the country. That would be a tough act for Shawne to follow.
Penny's second year he had NO peers. Not Mashburn or Hill or any of them were as good as Penny. He could score at will. It was like DeAngelo and the football team, he was everything and they sent their best defenders in numbers after him yet he still did whatever he wanted.
I would hold off on the Penny comparisons until Shawne gets at least 50% of the way there.

I agree completely with this assessment.

One thing is for sure, TY is the best to come out of Memphis since Shawne Williams and if Shawne is a sure 1st rounder this year, we are going to need a 3 real bad.

Tyler Smith sounds like a terrific fit.

I did speak with a very reliable source last night regarding Tyler Smith and he indicated that his family is a problem and that he could be trouble. Does anyone have any information regarding this?

Also, another gentleman at the party told a story regarding a run in last halloween between Sean Banks and his kids while they were trick or treating at Cal's house. He said that Banks was the most obnoxious and arrogant player he had ever met, this does not suprise me based on what happened shortly after this.