...at all things minus Football that is, and the Football thing will eventually take care of itself.. Multiple NCAA probations and a known reputation for cheating will do those kinds of things to you.

Seriously though, is MU a consistent Conference Title contender at any other sport the Mid-American Conference competes in? My goodness, the obvious location of one sport wonders in this conference is in western WV.

The other thing I'd like to address is MU fans consistent lack of responding to the fact they pull for a University whose athletic program consistently is in trouble with the Division I Athletic Governing Body. I, as a reasonable, respectful fan/alum of my University would be ashamed if what has transpired at MU happened at UCF. If given the choice, I feel any self respecting fan/alum of any University would rather have a solid but unspectacular program that does things the right way than a renegade program who is able to put up multiple championship banners, but at what cost. And, as an alum, I would expect major changes to happen in the way things were done within the Athletic Dept., or with whichever sport the issues happened to be occuring in. These things have happened multiple times at MU, yet no backlash from the Herd faithful? Hmmm. Are the acceptable as long as the W's keep rolling in?

Go on ahead MU fans, reply with your UCF smack, your "Oh, you're just jealous of mighty Marshall" talk, and your :crying: accusations, but the facts are the facts and the things that have transpired in the past will eventually catch up with you.

Then again, is the only way to field a successful football program in western West Virginia to break the rules. The past speaks for itself.



<!--EDIT|MylesKnight|Nov 14 2002, 07:36 PM-->

Yeah...the team that will go undefeated in the MAC.
The team that is more worried about OOC games.
The team with a Putz AD who doesn't realize where he is right now.
The team that cries about the playing field...making excuses for a loss.
That means alot coming from you. Hell, you guys screwed up the national election not too long ago.

Good response my Friend.. Don't forget to not address anything that I've said regarding the storied Marshall University Athletic Program. Good job, you did well..

Don't mention it...and know that in the future...you always have my vote!!

By the way, for the record I do feel the preseason comments of UCF's Football Coach and Athletic Director toward the MAC as well as Coach Kruz's comments following the Marshall loss were completely idiotic and uncalled for.

I for one, emailed our new AD in response to each of these things, shortly after they happened with my displeasure. I don't have to worry about blind loyalties to my University when it comes to something moronic happening. I see things for what they are, my friend..

OK, first of all, 15 yards for piling on.

Second, our athletic department is not constantly in trouble with the NCAA.
We were on probation for football in 1970. That was thirty two years prior to this infraction.
We were on basketball probation in 1988, and was fourteen years prior to this one.
A good deal of people around here were not even born the last time Marshall was on probation in football.

This does not mean to shortchange the fact that we are on probation.
I have made my feelings known. I would have fired them all. I would have sued Marshall REynolds for every damn penny he owned, and I would have filed criminal fraud charges against Bruce McAllister for grade fixing, and Reynolds for filing incorrect wage information to the athletic department.
And I would prosecute any coach who knew the real deal. Period.

As for the other sports. Thanks for chiming in about the one hit wonders.

Maybe you should check out our softball team.
They tied for the East division crown in 2000, and finished third in the East in 2001 with the most total wins in the conference.

Maybe you would like to come watch our women's tennis team who won the MAC Tennis Tournament this past season.

Or maybe our Men's soccer team who tied for the conference crown in 2000 and finished third in 1999 and 2001. Maybe you would like to check them out on Friday playing for a chance to make the MAC Championship in soccer this season.

Maybe you missed our men's basketball team who was picked to win it, but finished third in the conference in 2000-01.

Try out our women's volleyball team who is a game and a half back in the MAC East this season, a tremendous turnaround from past history.

Are our non-footballs sports great? No. But they aren't as pitiful as they used to be either.

Thanks for chiming in on the probation/renegade program theme. Now that we know you don't like us, we don't have to feel bad when you lose to us.



:angel:

Then you should see that you shouldn't call me a friend. We've never met and we don't hang out together.

HS, thanks for the response to my comments.

Like it or not though, just as UCF is known at the moment for a Football program that is not quite able to get over the hump, and a Head Football Coach who seems to have a bad case of running of the mouth, Marshall is known for a solid football program, accepting darn near any good football player regardless of the academic side of things, and I know you don't want to hear this but, cheating on multiple occasions. This Conference has already thrown out MU Athletics once, and I'm honestly surprised a Conference that would do that would allow that same University back into the League at a later time, regardless of need. I don't blame MU for that though..

Also, HF4L, sorry to see you take things so personally.



<!--EDIT|MylesKnight|Nov 14 2002, 07:56 PM-->

Thank you, Herd Swimming, for beating me to the punch. I went to do some research and write down some facts to bring over here, and you posted before I got back. I get so tired of this whole "Marshall sucks in all other sports" crap. It would seem to me that they compete quite respectably. I had to counter this same issue last year, and likely someone will have to counter the same issue brought up by yet another uninformed fan next year as well.

EdM

If Marshall ever gets put on major probation in the foreseeable future, I'll be at the front of the line with a pitchfork demanding Marshall be booted from the league again.

In the meantime, I just think we should drop this cheating bit. It happened and, yes, it has tarred Marshall's reputation. But it's time to move on.

By the way, lets take a look at the past few seasons MAC Men's & Women's All Sports Standings (strange they are not available on the official Mid-American Conference site). I think this give a good indication of whether what I had to say was dead wrong or right on the money.

Who truly are the powerhouses of the MAC when it comes to Athletic Departments as a whole? I just don't see Marshall as one of the answers to that question.

Roch-Falcon, I would just like to know why the MAC decided to readmit a University that was at one time thrown out of the league for among other reasons cheating. This is just not something you see everyday, or hardly at all for that matter.

As I assume you would expect, I could've cared less about the MAC up and until UCF was invited and accepted an invite from the Conference for Football membership, so I'm not as "in the know" when it comes to MAC history as I'm sure a lot of you are.



<!--EDIT|MylesKnight|Nov 14 2002, 08:38 PM-->

Well, for one, the infractions were discovered THREE years AFTER Marshall was readmitted into the MAC.

Secondly, I'm more surprised the MAC admitted UCF as a FOOTBALL ONLY member. I have read what you have posted, but what does UCF offer besides baseball and a decent football team???? (Not a flame; I have just never heard of anything coming out of UCF except baseball (every now and then) and football.)

That's strange that you would question Marshall's standing in other sporting events. You are a football only member and not very good at that.

And, if you "Could've cared less about the MAC" why didn't you? Or, did you mean that you couldn't have cared less?

Well, I would say at this point in time UCF does in fact have a stronger Athletic Program as a whole than does MU, and that's saying a lot considering the differences in the Conferences we compete in (MAC & Atlantic Sun) and the differences in Athletic Budgets we are talking about.

As for UCF Athletics, how about consistent All-Sports Titles or at worst 2nd Place Finishes in our Conference in both Men's & Women's sports.. Recent Conference Titles and NCAA Tournament appearances in Baseball, Women's Basketball, Men's & Women's Tennis, Men's & Women's Golf, Men's & Women's Soccer & Volleyball, as well as a Softball program that may very well advance to the NCAA Tournament this upcoming season in only its 2nd season of existence..

Basically, we are only waiting for our Men's Hoops program to finally get its act together, as that will eventually be the deciding factor in whether or not we get an all-sports invite to a higher profile Conference in the future. Our new Athletic Director is making this a huge priority, and it will be interesting to see how this eventually turns out, considering our struggles in this sport for the most part, in the past.

I feel as a whole, UCF would do quite well in nearly all sports if the University was a full member of the Mid-American Conference, with the future only looking even brighter and better.


Appreciate the grammar check, my good friend HF4L :D ... And I care about the All-Sports aspect of MU and the Mid-American Conference as a whole because of the fact that we could conceivably be a full member of this League somewhere down the road, whether it be in it's current form or some revamped version.



<!--EDIT|MylesKnight|Nov 14 2002, 09:05 PM-->

Myles, please check out the all-sports standings.

Then check out the scoring rules.

Quote:The Reese Trophy is an annual trophy named for former MAC commissioner David E. Reese awarded to the MAC university with the six-highest finishes in the 11 men's sports for which the MAC sponsors championships. The top six sports per university are to be counted; however, three of the six must be football, basketball, and baseball. Schools may count only one track and field score, indoor or outdoor, but not both.

The Jacoby Trophy is an annual trophy named for former MAC commissioner Fred Jacoby, awarded to the MAC university with the six-highest finishes in the 12 women's sports for which the MAC sponsors championships. The top-six sports per university are to be counted; however, three of the six must be basketball, volleyball, and softball.

Got that from the MAC site, too bad you couldn't find it.

You will find Marshall towards the bottom.

Now, if you take into account that of the three mandatory men's sports last season, Marshall was the East Champion in football, finished eighth in basketball(a disapointment) and the baseball team is horrid, you can see we don't have much to go on.
Throw in men's soccer, and track and golf.
Because that is all we have. And track is terrible, and golf isn't bad.
We don't have margin for error.

Throw in the women's mandatory three, and you will find that our women's basketball team is way down. Now, I take smack like that from MAC fans, but your Atlantic Sun squad wouldn't hold a candle to our seven straight Southern Conference titles in the 80s with the women's hoopsters.
The volleyball team has been pretty dismal over the years, and actually made the tournament this year, after finishing third in the East.
THe softball team has been up and down. But generally pretty good.

That leaves three more.
The tennis team won the title. The swim team is new. THe soccer team is not very good.
The golf team is in its second year.
The track team is not good.

Doesn't add up to much in the overall.

But it is a hell of an improvement from where they came from in the Southern.
We were very competitive in the Southern.
The MAC is an entirely different level.

Bring that Atlantic Sun squad up here. Better yet, bring us down there.
We'd like some sun and sand with a win or three.

You are flat high on something if you think you are going to bring anything to the table, if the best you have to offer is your football team.
The MAC is light years better, and more respected in the rest of the sports.



<!--EDIT|Herd Swimming|Nov 14 2002, 04:24 PM-->

I think, no let me say I know you are seriously underestimating the talent level of the non-revenue sport athletes at UCF. I'm not saying we walk into the MAC and take the all-sports titles from day one, don't be silly, but we would be competitive in nearly every sport, and from taking into account what you've stated, much more competitive in more sports than the almighty Marshall University

By the way, Football is not the best thing going for UCF right now if you take into account the success of any given program at the University.

I enjoy the insight you bring to the table regarding MU Athletics though... Much appreciation.



<!--EDIT|MylesKnight|Nov 15 2002, 12:02 AM-->