Phil Steele's 2004 MAC Team

1st team:
Jake VerStraete
Brian Atkinson

2nd team:
Travis Moore
ROB LEE

Anyone surprised by Steele's selection of Lee?

And preseason rankings..
#38 NIU
#39 ND
#40 Purdue

Whoa!
Pass me some of that Huskie Kool Aid!

Flying Corn Wrote:And as Gambler undoubtedly knows, Phil Steele is a gambling publication. I figure the gamblers are always more trustworthy than regular fans and journalists when it comes to getting the facts straight and providing a dispassionate, hardheaded analysis. I trust the gambling publications, PARTICULARLY when they contradict conventional wisdom.

Theres a lot of damn money riding on this analysis; they better get it right ,or they'll have to answer to people a great deal more surly than your average disappointed fan.

Gambling publications are much better than regular for one reason, their amount of knowledge. Gambling publications have to know facts before they write, unlike say Ivan whatever his name is on espn with his fake top 25, where he just used the same top 3 as last season.

Thats not to say i don't trust the offical ESPN polls or the OFFICAL ESPN preseason poll which comes out in a while, but right now steele is the best aviable because he goes that extra mile to find out some facts for the gambling public. As you find out by living out her in NV there is action on every sporting event, and college sports are by far the most active like flying said, he has to do it or hes in more trouble than ivan or ian or whatever.

niucob86 Wrote:Anyone surprised by Steele's selection of Lee?

CrazyWilly is undoubtedly cursing up a storm somewhere....

The kid was toast on the more than one occasion last year, but I think he's a very athletic guy with big play capability. I believe his toastiness last year was mainly due to inexperience rather than a lack of the necessary physical tools...

"Toastiness" :rofl:

God bless this board :D

niu85alum Wrote:We may have the best defense in the West? What a scary statement. Last year's unit was mediocre on its best days.

No it wasn't.

Being concerned about this year's D is understandable, but don't lie about last year, unless you just don't know what you're talking about.

NIUGAMBLER Wrote:

Flying Corn Wrote:And as Gambler undoubtedly knows, Phil Steele is a gambling publication. I figure the gamblers are always more trustworthy than regular fans and journalists when it comes to getting the facts straight and providing a dispassionate, hardheaded analysis. I trust the gambling publications, PARTICULARLY when they contradict conventional wisdom.

Theres a lot of damn money riding on this analysis; they better get it right ,or they'll have to answer to people a great deal more surly than your average disappointed fan.

Gambling publications are much better than regular for one reason, their amount of knowledge. Gambling publications have to know facts before they write, unlike say Ivan whatever his name is on espn with his fake top 25, where he just used the same top 3 as last season.

Thats not to say i don't trust the offical ESPN polls or the OFFICAL ESPN preseason poll which comes out in a while, but right now steele is the best aviable because he goes that extra mile to find out some facts for the gambling public. As you find out by living out her in NV there is action on every sporting event, and college sports are by far the most active like flying said, he has to do it or hes in more trouble than ivan or ian or whatever.

Dead on, HG. Gamblers don't walk in with only half the info - they have a good idea what they're talking about. So much so that it's damn frightening sometimes.

Flying Corn Wrote:

niucob86 Wrote:Anyone surprised by Steele's selection of Lee?

CrazyWilly is undoubtedly cursing up a storm somewhere....

The kid was toast on the more than one occasion last year, but I think he's a very athletic guy with big play capability. I believe his toastiness last year was mainly due to inexperience rather than a lack of the necessary physical tools...

We played a lot of zone behind an aggressive front last year. I suspect we may change both a bit - less aggressive up front, and more aggressive in the back.

Remember, also, that Rob Lee was coming off a significant knee injury. And he's still the fastest guy on the team.

Flying Corn Wrote:

niucob86 Wrote:Anyone surprised by Steele's selection of Lee?

CrazyWilly is undoubtedly cursing up a storm somewhere....

The kid was toast on the more than one occasion last year, but I think he's a very athletic guy with big play capability. I believe his toastiness last year was mainly due to inexperience rather than a lack of the necessary physical tools...

I think dan was dead on when he said that lee was coming off an injury last year. Even if we discount that fact, which we shouldn't, but even if we do Rob Lee was a starter last year and seniors with experience are usually a pretty darn good thing to have. I think a lot of people were down on lee last year and he will have a great year, not because steele thinks so, but because lee will be improved just because he is learning.

I drink the Huskie kool aid as much as anyone, but it's very difficult for me to blame some of Lee's poor coverage's last year on recovering from a knee injury the prior year. When he got all turned around in the end zone at Bowling Green, and they scored on him, was that because he was still recovering from a knee injury? When he would have burned in overtime against Maryland if not for a poorly underthrown pass, was that because of a prior year knee injury?

Every corner gets burned at some point. It's the nature of the beast. I agree it's great that Rob has another year of experience under his belt, and look forward to him having a solid Senior season.

Field Turf Wrote:I drink the Huskie kool aid as much as anyone, but it's very difficult for me to blame some of Lee's poor coverage's last year on recovering from a knee injury the prior year. When he got all turned around in the end zone at Bowling Green, and they scored on him, was that because he was still recovering from a knee injury? When he would have burned in overtime against Maryland if not for a poorly underthrown pass, was that because of a prior year knee injury?

Every corner gets burned at some point. It's the nature of the beast. I agree it's great that Rob has another year of experience under his belt, and look forward to him having a solid Senior season.

I agree he made mistakes, times when he has look down right lost out there, and just because steele said he should be good doesn't mean jack! But here's hoping that a year to learn is going to help him.

Actually, the point was more that despite coming off a significant knee injury, he's the fastest guy on the team and the coaches believed he was the second best CB on the roster. That carries some weight.

But I don't believe he played in spring practice last year - I could be wrong. That makes last August his first significant field time since the previous October, so rust certainly has to be considered (especially early in the season). The play at BG - man, we had no pressure on Harris all day, and the one TD pass - everyone screams about that, but it's a damn tough play for a CB. You have to stay with the WR, then the ball is underthrown and up in the air, and you have a split second to react to it.

I think Rob Lee is just fine. It's the pass rush out of the front 4 that I'd like to see improve.

The kid has the tools physically; he's quick to the ball and he's a hard hitter. Yeah, he got burned, and I expect he'll get burned several times this year. But I think he has the potential to be a big play guy. If he gets burned three of four times, I'll take it if he can generate six or seven turnovers through aggressive play.

I agree with Dan that you can't hang much blame on the execution of the secondary for the debacle at BG. Our defensive scheme for that game was awful, and we put zero pressure on Harris. What's a DB to do?

would someone please explain to me why lee continues to be the lighting rod for controversey on this team. i'm not sure what 'toastiness' means, but anyone who knows anything about football knows that corners get beat. corner is arguabley the most difficult position on the field, and the one that requires the most athleticism. let's face it, if a receiver runs a good route and the qb throws a good ball, the pass should be complete- that's football. a good corner has to have a short memory. as for lee, i think he gave up 3 td's on the year, 2 on jump balls in the endzone. yes he did get beat on occasion, but he also had 5 picks and was arguably the best sure tackler in the secondary. and yes, he was 8-mos removed from acl surgury. anyone who doesn't think that was significant doesn't know ******! how about we wait for the season to start, then all you lee bashers, many of whom, i think, just can't stand to see a white player start at corner, can start firing with both barrels.

WIDOG Wrote:would someone please explain to me why lee continues to be the lighting rod for controversey on this team. i'm not sure what 'toastiness' means, but anyone who knows anything about football knows that corners get beat. corner is arguabley the most difficult position on the field, and the one that requires the most athleticism. let's face it, if a receiver runs a good route and the qb throws a good ball, the pass should be complete- that's football. a good corner has to have a short memory. as for lee, i think he gave up 3 td's on the year, 2 on jump balls in the endzone. yes he did get beat on occasion, but he also had 5 picks and was arguably the best sure tackler in the secondary. and yes, he was 8-mos removed from acl surgury. anyone who doesn't think that was significant doesn't know ******! how about we wait for the season to start, then all you lee bashers, many of whom, i think, just can't stand to see a white player start at corner, can start firing with both barrels.

As for being the worst post i've seen in a while, i think that one wins!

I'm a big lee fan, but I'm pretty sure him being white doesn't bother anyone, I think it was the fact that he was beaten on pass plays that upsets people. I can understand that, He wasn't beaten because of his speed, or a slip, he was beaten because of a poor coverage job or being out of position, they are allowed to say that about him.

I think he was too, but that doesn't mean hes not a good player, it just means that was his first year starting. So your right lets wait, but who cares if hes white? I care if he proves he cannot handle the corner position because he's always out of position.

The TD he was covering at Tuscaloosa was not his fault. As soon as the tide got the TD his dad turned to me and admitted it was his son who had coverage. Without hesitation, I replied there was no way he could have stopped it as he had good coverage and it was a perfect throw. And the replays showed there was good coverage. That is one reason why in an earlier thread I picked Rob Lee as a pleasant surprise in 2004.
GO HUSKIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(see you all in College Park)

Dog Fan Wrote:

RangerRocket Wrote:For what it's worth, I've got Toledo ranked #1 this year 
:D

You are definitely #1 when it comes to merchandising designs, RR! I have been following you on the Toledo board, and your designs are superb! Do you have any problems with copyrights? If not, you should consider doing this for other MAC schools (hint, hint). With the general lack of MAC school merchandise, you could do a great business.

[QUOTE]

Thanks Dog Fan -- I'm finding that the universities and NCAA have trademarks really locked down. Unigue graphics don't see to be a problem, it is the words that you use along with the graphic that seem to be the issue. For example, if I exchanged the words in my "Toledo Rockets Fuel" logo below for "Toledo Rockets Football" and then try to sell t-shirts I expose myself to trademark issues. College merchandise is becoming big money. I'm definitely am going to do a little more reseach and see if I can get better clarity.

I would suspect that NIU has "NIU, "Huskies" and other word combinations trademarked. It is pretty easy to search via the US Patent Office website (as I found out in the case of "BGSU"). I'd like to see Toledo develop some caricatures of the Toledo Rocket like I've done just to spice up the merchandise. I'm sure you could do the same thing with the "dog". Kind of like Buckeye Bruce. Opens up all kinds of new avenues for merchandise. I like the rocket logo, but it gets dull seeing the same logo on everything all of the time. I'm really contemplating going to the university and offer up the graphics that I've gotten done. Maybe we can work something out so I don't lose total control of "my" graphics. I've definitely gotten very positive comments.

The NCAA also has strict rules on using a players name, image or likeness on a commercial product (as in you can't). That's why I can't use my "Bruce Almighty" graphic on a t-shirt. I'm in the process of getting some Toledo football jerseys made. You can't put a player's name on the jersey, but you can use his number as long as the university approves. I'm trying to get some made with number "7", Bruce Gradkowski's number.

If this Toledo thing is successful I might try to expand to other MAC schools. I've got the energy, capital is a different story. Wish I had a rich uncle. Sounds like you guys have similar issues getting a wide selection of NIU logo'ed merchandise. The merchandise is readily available if you have deep enough pockets in order to buy the minimum amounts required to get a product logo'ed. Just getting a little plastic trinket logo'ed for the first time can easily cost hundreds of dollars because you have to order so many just to make it worth the wholesaler's time. They'll invest in a bigger school, us MAC guys are a different story. They have to make their money too I suppose. Marshall seems to do very well with different logo'ed merchandise, of course Huntington thinks they are their NFL team. We just need to get the same kind of support from our fan base. No excuse in Toledo, we're a big enough school and metropolitan area. Way too much Ohio State and Michigan stuff around here!!!

You guys have some good, honest discussions going here on the NIU board. Good luck this coming season.

RR

If you look at Steele's position rankings Lee is in the top 60. In and of itself doesn't mean anything but it is eye opening.

WIDOG Wrote:would someone please explain to me why lee continues to be the lighting rod for controversey on this team. i'm not sure what 'toastiness' means, but anyone who knows anything about football knows that corners get beat. corner is arguabley the most difficult position on the field, and the one that requires the most athleticism. let's face it, if a receiver runs a good route and the qb throws a good ball, the pass should be complete- that's football. a good corner has to have a short memory. as for lee, i think he gave up 3 td's on the year, 2 on jump balls in the endzone. yes he did get beat on occasion, but he also had 5 picks and was arguably the best sure tackler in the secondary. and yes, he was 8-mos removed from acl surgury. anyone who doesn't think that was significant doesn't know ******! how about we wait for the season to start, then all you lee bashers, many of whom, i think, just can't stand to see a white player start at corner, can start firing with both barrels.

He was a bit of a lightning rod last year, but mostly because he was the least experienced guy on a very experienced D. Once injuries began to pile up, he became one of the more veteran guys out there and performed well. IMO, the TD at Tuscaloosa and the one in the end zone at BG are as tough a play as a CB has to deal with.

It wasn't about him being a white CB, it's about him being the newbie last year, and thus the most easily picked on. I suspect he'll have a big senior season!

Fact of the matter is anyone really an expert. Sometimes it appears they are treating college football like handicapping horses.

Bottom line to me is that we haven't beaten the best the MAC West has to offer, Toledo. When and if we accomplish that then I will believe we are going to a Bowl. Until then, it just will not happen. No I have not forgotten BGSU, but have beat them and I think we will again in our backyard...

GO NIU!

The TD at Alabama was very questionable as to whether the receiver even maintained possession. The post about us talking about him only because he is a white corner was ludicrisp (as Mike Tyson would say). I wasn't trying to bash Rob at all. I like his play and his potential. I said all corners get beat. I was only commenting on what I preceived as blaming some of his poor coverages last year on his knee injury the prior season.

Talking about Lee, or any other player on here is talking actual football, which is what I enjoy most about this board.