Just 4,093 fans attended the game, won by SJSU over Rice 70-63, in the highest-scoring regulation game in Division I-A history.

They need to hire the same people Eastern Michigan did to do the attendance. Namely, the Ghostbusters, who counts everybody whether you can see them or not.

Meanwhile Central Michigan needs to get their people to quit napping on the job. Their first game was grossly undercounted and the second attendance figure is suspect, too. It's almost like someone's committing sabotage.

Scuttlebutt I'm hearing is that SJSU already has counsel lined up and plans to attack the 15K rule or force the NCAA Board of Directors to change it before it gets to a lawsuit that the NCAA will probably lose. To get to court they need the attendance count to be under 15,000 to force the NCAA to act on their situation.

The 11 university presidents who make up the Board of Directors are worrying some AD's and conference commissioners because they are rumored to be drafting new I-A criteria without their input. They are expected to craft a plan that while make sure all I-A's remain I-A while making it very difficult if not just short of impossible for schools to move from I-AA to I-A unless they have a conference home.

It would be kind of nice to see another school help to take the lead on this so it's not a "MAC thing" per se. Looks like we have a reasonable chance for all MAC conference members to make the 15K (assuming CMU gets its official tally corrected), although I realize that it's still early (with chilly November looming). Should be a huge crowd at Peden this week for the big clash with the Herd............with good weather wonder it they'll set any home attendance records down there this weekend? KC?

ex Cincy Kid Wrote:Should be a huge crowd at Peden this week for the big clash with the Herd............with good weather wonder it they'll set any home attendance records down there this weekend? KC?

I'm sure this game will draw 20k in Peden, but beyond that I don't know. We've had a crowds of 23k to watch us play Buffalo when we were winning, so I guess its theoretically possible.

OU has poor alumni support in Football. Some of this is from little tradition and lack of nationally recognized players. When a school like UCF goes out and lands a Daunte Culpepper, people have a face to put on the program, and OU has never had that kind of visability.

Also, unlike most MAC schools which are pretty lame, the OU football games are not the main social event in Athens during the fall. OU's no tailgating policy, and family oriented environment turns off partiers. The Football games are overshadowed by Halloween and street parties. Then OSU is only 75 miles from Athens, which has a negative effect.

Somebody tell me the legal theory they're gonna use to challenge this rule. Maybe I'm just not creative enough but the NCAA is an organization that some colleges voluntarily participate in. By participating in that organization, they agree to abide by its rules.

It may not matter, MAKO, as I think some of the intended purpose of the possible litigation is to embarrass the NCAA (i.e. you can cheat or not graduate players and play, but if a long-standing member in good standing should (God forbid) average less than 15K/game and it's off to purgatory). It may very well work as the stated intention of the new legislation was to prevent IAA wannabes from moving up. (even though we all are not naive enough to believe that is the rationale from the BCS members). Still, the NCAA can be exposed for its hyprocrisy, which would be entertaining in itself.

Kit-Cat Wrote:

ex Cincy Kid Wrote:Should be a huge crowd at Peden this week for the big clash with the Herd............with good weather wonder it they'll set any home attendance records down there this weekend? KC?

I'm sure this game will draw 20k in Peden, but beyond that I don't know. We've had a crowds of 23k to watch us play Buffalo when we were winning, so I guess its theoretically possible.

OU has poor alumni support in Football. Some of this is from little tradition and lack of nationally recognized players. When a school like UCF goes out and lands a Daunte Culpepper, people have a face to put on the program, and OU has never had that kind of visability.

Also, unlike most MAC schools which are pretty lame, the OU football games are not the main social event in Athens during the fall. OU's no tailgating policy, and family oriented environment turns off partiers. The Football games are overshadowed by Halloween and street parties. Then OSU is only 75 miles from Athens, which has a negative effect.

Tailgating returned to Bobcat football in 1996. It's not the event that it might be at some places, but it certainly is allowed.

MAKO Wrote:Somebody tell me the legal theory they're gonna use to challenge this rule. Maybe I'm just not creative enough but the NCAA is an organization that some colleges voluntarily participate in. By participating in that organization, they agree to abide by its rules.

Under anti-trust law, you cannot exclude someone from a voluntary organization that has economic impact on interstate commerce unless there is a legitimate business purpose OTHER than reducing competition.

The attendance component is contrary to the Division I Philosophy statement that is supposed to be used as a guideline for adopting all NCAA legislation. The Statement specifically states "members of Division I recognize the differences in institutional objectives in support of football; therefore, the division provides competition in that sport in Division I-A and Division I-AA"

Based on the NCAA's own statement any criteria for I-A that relies on factors outside the control of an institution are automatically suspect.

That means you've got to come up with a really, really good legitimate reason for an attendance criteria.

In this case, what they have is former Southland Conference Commissioner Greg Swankey telling CBS Sportsline that they wanted tougher criteria and that they came up with 15k by taking the old 30k stadium requirement and dividing by 2.

It's a slam dunk and SJSU is the PERFECT plaintiff. This year the WAC will distribute about $1.2 million to them (most years closer to $700,000 but the defectors are leaving money on the table). WAC rules require all members to play I-A football so that means they will be expelled if reclassified and lose that money. So that helps in damages. Then you have the fact that they play Stanford. Since 1959 they have played every year except one but Stanford has played only school classified I-AA since that sub-group was created in 1978 and that was a game that was contracted while the opponent was I-A. They've not played a I-AA in the last 12 years. So reclassification likely costs them the historic (60 meetings) series with Stanford that provides them with exposure and an affordable money game nearby. Plus SJSU is a normally a mediocre school. Some bad years, but some good, ranked in the final poll in 1990, 7 bowl appearances, 4 since 1980.

Won't take long to establish that SJSU is competitive in I-A (beat a Big 10 school in 2002) and is being excluded from I-A, and will suffer measurable economic damages if excluded based on a rule designed solely to exclude schools.

I'm no lawyer, but this Arkansas State kid seems to have worked up a pretty interesting legal theory.

That's a good approach, arkstfan.

But it gets better: The negative effects potentially damage the "innocent" as well. San Jose State's status becomes an uncontrollable factor in hurting the attendance of all the schools in the WAC who have them on their schedule, or count on their being a part of the league.

Another example is if the MAC had to lose some teams and could no longer hold a championship game. Teams without attendance problems get hurt by this rule when they did nothing wrong, whatsoever.

Plus 22 kids lose scholarships when SJSU has to comply with I-AA requirements causing economic loss to them.