Craig James brought up an interesting thought,

No offense to the rest of my CUSA brethren, but SMU, Rice, and Houston have been a major player in college football for many years, which frankly, no one else can claim.....We were in a major, top conference and played the big boys every year day in and every day out. We are in the recruiting hotbed of Texas, more specifically North Texas that has produced many top recruits.

Not to belittle anyone, but we have won national championships, should have won more and have been to several of the major bowls including the Rose Bowl and the Cotton Bowl... No one else but Rice and Houston can claim that.

The breakup of the Southwest Conference Kicked us all in the nuts but we can maybe recover.

All you guys can talk about attendance and recruiting and what you can do, but the fact is you were not in a major conference playing the big boys every week like SMU, Houston and Rice.

I want the conference to do well and everyone elevate to the occasion but please understand our history, and not even that much of history. Realize that just 10 years ago, SMU, Rice and Houston were in the same conference as Texas, Texas AM, Texas Tech, and Baylor. You guys can talk smack all day and say how we suck, but no one else can come close to claiming that.

So, show a little love to your SWC refugees, I feel in a couple of years we will dominate.

/cheers and much love

EDIT:

My apologies, I did not mean to forget about Tulane, I know they were in the SEC, they too played major college football and know what it is like.

shadowman Wrote:but the fact is you were not in a major conference playing the big boys every week like SMU, Houston and Rice.

I just wanted to point out one word that you said in that whole rant...

Quote:were

. You were there, aren't any more. You can throw the whole major conference crap at the rest of us all day long, but the fact of the matter is that y'all having been in a major conference at one time matters just as much as attendance does.

uofmcamaro Wrote:

shadowman Wrote:but the fact is you were not in a major conference playing the big boys every week like SMU, Houston and Rice.

I just wanted to point out one word that you said in that whole rant...

Quote:were

. You were there, aren't any more. You can throw the whole major conference crap at the rest of us all day long, but the fact of the matter is that y'all having been in a major conference at one time matters just as much as attendance does.

I disagree with the bottom statement. Attendance does actually matter, because it pays the bills and recruits normally like to play in front of more than 5k people. Kind of helps getting them to sign I would think and getting better players. Hell it even helps you win when it gets loud on 3rd downs. I would think attendance has much more impact on today success than Tulane being in the SEC once upon a time.

Man it must have been a chalky pill to swallow that the SMU's etc were at the mercy of us lowly old CUSA members to grant them entrance into our conference.

No,

Read again,

My point is WE ALL SUCK, accept Tulsa,

BUT, at least at once, Rice, Houston, SMU, and Tulane were in a major conference which none of the other 8 members of CUSA can claim. Sure, we all suck, EXCEPT TULSA, but at least some of us have some history.

Tell me how many Cotton Bowls and Rose Bowls ECU has played in up until now?

shadowman Wrote:Tell me how many Cotton Bowls and Rose Bowls ECU has played in up until now?

Tell me how it makes your season or mine better right now to rest assured that we may be losing all of our games, but we went to a Cotton Bowl way back when. Makes no sense to me. Enjoy your past but don't live in it. I am a Memphis fan btw, not ECU. It doesn't matter where we were 20 years ago, or 2 for that matter. I am not still caught up in the N.O. Bowl from 3 years ago. Makes no sense. It seems to be somewhat similar to a "my dad can beat up your dad".

SJ, sorry about the mix up. Attendance does matter and I knew that writing that post, but I wanted to show how irrelevant it is to what goes on, on the field.

My apologies Memphis Man, my rant was mostly aimed at that Jonsing ECU homer.

And my point is that we are all kinda low now, but the old SWC refugees at least have history to call upon, and that is something. TCU did pretty damn well in CUSA, and funny thing is , they were SMUs whipping boy for many years in the SWC.

Say what you want about the past not mattering, maybe it doesn't, but at least SMU has some, and remember in the 1980s, which is only 20 odd years ago, we were undefeated and got screwed out of a chance of the AP national championship, but still finished #2 and #1 in several other polls.

I really started this thread not as a flame, but as a reminder that maybe the old SWC schools which have played much higher competition could maybe get their act together and dominate.

Craig James comment was perfectly valid, SMU was in a major conference not that long ago, in a great recruiting area, great stadium and facilities, they should be able to dominate....it was a challenge to us.

Rice and Houston have the same advantage, we have the history to pull from....will we take advantage of it....i dont know....but we should.

/cheers

shadowman Wrote:No,

Read again,

My point is WE ALL SUCK, accept Tulsa,

BUT, at least at once, Rice, Houston, SMU, and Tulane were in a major conference which none of the other 8 members of CUSA can claim. Sure, we all suck, EXCEPT TULSA, but at least some of us have some history.

Tell me how many Cotton Bowls and Rose Bowls ECU has played in up until now?

Just one New Years day bowl and top 10 finish for ECU, but I wouldn't trade spots with ya in 2006 that much is for sure. Not after seeing that sad spectacle tonight.

If you want to flash your 1936 Rose Bowl that's cool, it counts for something but at the time FSU was a women's teachers college, and Duke, Army and Princeton owned college football and everyone wore leather helmets.

I do think tradition matters and has merritt, but there has to be a cut off point for real relevancy and for me it's about 30 to 40 years seems to be the modern era to me. So yeah you have a little tradition mixed in there since 1970, you also had the best players money could buy. Forgive me for not fawning over your bought accomplishments. It's not like we were irrelevant in the last 30 to 40 years either. Several top 25 finishes and many near misses. I can pull a poll with both ECU and SMU ranked in it.

And speak for your self we currently don't suck. You maybe do at #87 in the last BCS poll and losing to N. Texas but we were #62. That's about average in the college football landscape with 4 games coming up we will be favored in.

It's great you were in a conference with Texas, but at this point just about every team in this conference resembles Texas more than SMU.

And for you to blame this on me is laughable. You really think you are going to post something like that first paragraph and not get some reaction??

BTW how many major conferences has Notre Dame played in??? Go run that smack on them.

I will say again,

SMU is nothing special, but neither are you....yes you beat SMU at home, but did you forget the week before when Tulsa handed your a$$ to you....

and nice google action to realize we were in the Rose Bowl in the 30's....I am sure you were tryintg to disprove it, but if you give credit for the last 30 years, as in your words, 1976....

Since 1976, we had major bowl appearances, more than one top 10 finish....and you keep talking about paying players, like that was something we did that no one else did.....Drop that right now....we did nothing worse than anyone else playing MAJOR football, I know a ECU fan cannot understand that, but we just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....anyone of 30 top programs coulda been hit with the death penalty, we just got singled out because we were a small private university.

Sure we did wrong, but so was everyone else and they wanted to bust us....and the NCAA saw how it wrecked our program that they never have or never will again give it to another schoool, even though many schools have done worse than us since then.

shadowman Wrote:I will say again,

SMU is nothing special, but neither are you....yes you beat SMU at home, but did you forget the week before when Tulsa handed your a$$ to you....

and nice google action to realize we were in the Rose Bowl in the 30's....I am sure you were tryintg to disprove it, but if you give credit for the last 30 years, as in your words, 1976....

Since 1976, we had major bowl appearances, more than one top 10 finish....and you keep talking about paying players, like that was something we did that no one else did.....Drop that right now....we did nothing worse than anyone else playing MAJOR football, I know a ECU fan cannot understand that, but we just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....anyone of 30 top programs coulda been hit with the death penalty, we just got singled out because we were a small private university.

Sure we did wrong, but so was everyone else and they wanted to bust us....and the NCAA saw how it wrecked our program that they never have or never will again give it to another schoool, even though many schools have done worse than us since then.

boo hoo hoo

shadowman Wrote:....and you keep talking about paying players, like that was something we did that no one else did.....Drop that right now....we did nothing worse than anyone else playing MAJOR football, I know a ECU fan cannot understand that, but we just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....anyone of 30 top programs coulda been hit with the death penalty, we just got singled out because we were a small private university.

Sure we did wrong, but so was everyone else and they wanted to bust us....and the NCAA saw how it wrecked our program that they never have or never will again give it to another schoool, even though many schools have done worse than us since then.

ahh, the old "everyone else" was doing it defense to make it acceptable. From what I've read SMU was paying certain players in the '80's upwards of $500-700 a month, while already on probation. Heck, consider inflation and your buddy Craig James was making some bank, & probably took a paycut when he went to the USFL!

I agree the DP taught the NCAA a lesson. They won't ever do it again. However, you had it coming and to really include any bowls from that time when referencing accomplishments is good for a laugh, I can tell you that.

StillJonesing Wrote:

shadowman Wrote:I will say again,

SMU is nothing special, but neither are you....yes you beat SMU at home, but did you forget the week before when Tulsa handed your a$$ to you....

and nice google action to realize we were in the Rose Bowl in the 30's....I am sure you were tryintg to disprove it, but if you give credit for the last 30 years, as in your words, 1976....

Since 1976, we had major bowl appearances, more than one top 10 finish....and you keep talking about paying players, like that was something we did that no one else did.....Drop that right now....we did nothing worse than anyone else playing MAJOR football, I know a ECU fan cannot understand that, but we just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....anyone of 30 top programs coulda been hit with the death penalty, we just got singled out because we were a small private university.

Sure we did wrong, but so was everyone else and they wanted to bust us....and the NCAA saw how it wrecked our program that they never have or never will again give it to another schoool, even though many schools have done worse than us since then.

boo hoo hoo

Is that all you can come up with? Say I am crying that we got the death penalty even though many colleges before, at the same time and after payed players?

Our bad, we got busted, I will move on.

And the whole point of this thread was that maybe History, nice facilities, and being located in one of the top recruiting areas in the nation could help us in the long run devolved into this.

My one wish, PLEASE GOD LET IT BE TRUE, is that SMU and ECU end up with the same record and eligible for the NO Bowl as the last spot and I can listen to you cry all day long because they chose SMU over you.

It may not happen, but if it did, don't kid yourself, they would Take SMU over you in a Second. Go head and argue all you want, but I want to see it happen, and I will bump this thread and show you how much history means when it comes to bowl selections....it will mean a lot.

/cheers

CollegeCard Wrote:

shadowman Wrote:....and you keep talking about paying players, like that was something we did that no one else did.....Drop that right now....we did nothing worse than anyone else playing MAJOR football, I know a ECU fan cannot understand that, but we just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....anyone of 30 top programs coulda been hit with the death penalty, we just got singled out because we were a small private university.

Sure we did wrong, but so was everyone else and they wanted to bust us....and the NCAA saw how it wrecked our program that they never have or never will again give it to another schoool, even though many schools have done worse than us since then.

ahh, the old "everyone else" was doing it defense to make it acceptable. From what I've read SMU was paying certain players in the '80's upwards of $500-700 a month, while already on probation. Heck, consider inflation and your buddy Craig James was making some bank, & probably took a paycut when he went to the USFL!

I agree the DP taught the NCAA a lesson. They won't ever do it again. However, you had it coming and to really include any bowls from that time when referencing accomplishments is good for a laugh, I can tell you that.

Not saying it was right, yes we continued to pay players while on probation, but it was a runaway train at that point, we made promises, and SMU decided to keep them. We payed the illegal payments we promised. The funny thing is, several other programs since us have done the same thing, even more blatently, but they dont get touched.


Was a funny time back in the 80's.......

/cheers

shadowman Wrote:

CollegeCard Wrote:

shadowman Wrote:....and you keep talking about paying players, like that was something we did that no one else did.....Drop that right now....we did nothing worse than anyone else playing MAJOR football, I know a ECU fan cannot understand that, but we just were in the wrong place at the wrong time.....anyone of 30 top programs coulda been hit with the death penalty, we just got singled out because we were a small private university.

Sure we did wrong, but so was everyone else and they wanted to bust us....and the NCAA saw how it wrecked our program that they never have or never will again give it to another schoool, even though many schools have done worse than us since then.

ahh, the old "everyone else" was doing it defense to make it acceptable. From what I've read SMU was paying certain players in the '80's upwards of $500-700 a month, while already on probation. Heck, consider inflation and your buddy Craig James was making some bank, & probably took a paycut when he went to the USFL!

I agree the DP taught the NCAA a lesson. They won't ever do it again. However, you had it coming and to really include any bowls from that time when referencing accomplishments is good for a laugh, I can tell you that.

Not saying it was right, yes we continued to pay players while on probation, but it was a runaway train at that point, we made promises, and SMU decided to keep them. We payed the illegal payments we promised. The funny thing is, several other programs since us have done the same thing, even more blatently, but they dont get touched.


Was a funny time back in the 80's.......

/cheers

Let me first say that I would love to have SMU build themselves into a football powerhouse. Great for them and great for CUSA.

The comparisons of cheating are almost comical. If you got the Death Penalty obviously you were A. doing a lot more cheating then your average college football teams or B. you totally sucked at cheating and were the only school dumb enough to get caught.

I think of you SMU types as some pretty smart folks so I dont think that hicks down in Auburn, Oklahoma etc.. could outsmart you guys when it came to cheating.

Either way it is water under the Bridge. SMU has a strong football tradition and I hope you guys get back to that.

shadowman Wrote:My one wish, PLEASE GOD LET IT BE TRUE, is that SMU and ECU end up with the same record and eligible for the NO Bowl as the last spot and I can listen to you cry all day long because they chose SMU over you.

Watch out for what you wish for because making a prediction like this might slap you back in the face. This is a reason why so many UCF fans have been silently disgruntled over the season on this board lately - and giving ECU a boring game week with lack of smack. :shhh:

shadowman Wrote:Craig James brought up an interesting thought,

No offense to the rest of my CUSA brethren, but SMU, Rice, and Houston have been a major player in college football for many years, which frankly, no one else can claim.....We were in a major, top conference and played the big boys every year day in and every day out. We are in the recruiting hotbed of Texas, more specifically North Texas that has produced many top recruits.

Not to belittle anyone, but we have won national championships, should have won more and have been to several of the major bowls including the Rose Bowl and the Cotton Bowl... No one else but Rice and Houston can claim that.

The breakup of the Southwest Conference Kicked us all in the nuts but we can maybe recover.

All you guys can talk about attendance and recruiting and what you can do, but the fact is you were not in a major conference playing the big boys every week like SMU, Houston and Rice.

I want the conference to do well and everyone elevate to the occasion but please understand our history, and not even that much of history. Realize that just 10 years ago, SMU, Rice and Houston were in the same conference as Texas, Texas AM, Texas Tech, and Baylor. You guys can talk smack all day and say how we suck, but no one else can come close to claiming that.

So, show a little love to your SWC refugees, I feel in a couple of years we will dominate.

/cheers and much love

EDIT:

My apologies, I did not mean to forget about Tulane, I know they were in the SEC, they too played major college football and know what it is like.

Your arguments about SMU history, while true, are 99% irrelevant in today's college football world. The Ponies appear to be well on their way to football respectability again and credit is due to your admin. for hanging with Bennett and staff for long enough to get things turned around. I wish SMU the very best of luck. The real problem at SMU, and in fact, several private Texas universities is attendance. A fact that was sorely obvious in last night's telecast from Ford Stadium. We face the same problems at TCU as you do at SMU in that area. The SMU marketing Dept. must now step up and market the heck out of all SMU sports starting with football. The product on the field is now so much better so they should have an easier time with it than in the past.

Look out - here come's Harvard!!

shadowman Wrote:My point is WE ALL SUCK, accept Tulsa,

I agree... "accept" Tulsa.

I have been embeggoning people on this board for the last two years. You finally had the guts to stand with me. "Accept" you and me, who is with us?

ShoreBuc Wrote:B. you totally sucked at cheating and were the only school dumb enough to get caught.

Shoebuc... I don't remember the quote but it went something like this... "The NCAA was so mad at UCLA, they gave Cleveland State two years of probation."

SMU was really a dirty program and got the "death penalty". We have many examples of larger public schools doing worse and still have football programs.

It may be fair to argue that if SMU did not get the death penalty, SMU would be in the Big XII and not Baylor.

Wobblefrog Wrote:The SMU marketing Dept. must now step up and market the heck out of all SMU sports starting with football. The product on the field is now so much better so they should have an easier time with it than in the past.

They hired the right Athetic Department Director to help market SMU. The AD has already made a good decision in hiring Doherty. ...Good days are coming to SMU.

Combine Rice, Houston's, and SMU's fanbase and it might be about=to ECU's thats just the fact.

East Carolina has taken over 25,000 to a bowl game over 9 hours away from campus. That was 15 years ago when our fanbase wasn't nearly as large as it is now.

We have been one of the leader's in C-USA attendance coming off the John Thompson era which might have been the worst two year run in college football history.

Sure SMU has tradition, to say they should dominate C-USA is a joke. The fact is you guys are in Dallas and no one cares what happens on your gamedays.

SMU might have the best tradition in the league. However potential wise I'd rank them like the top 6 or so in no particular order as.........

UCF
Marshall
ECU
Memphis
So.Miss
UTEP.