Both - The Pennsylvania State University and the University of Pittsburgh (also Temple U and Lincoln U) are State-related Institutions which in practice means they are are administered like "Private" institutions and are exempt from most of the state's "Right to Know".

They receive limited annual funding from the state so that they can give tuition deductions for residents of PA.

(03-25-2026 02:42 PM)ecasadoSBU Wrote:  Both - The Pennsylvania State University and the University of Pittsburgh (also Temple U and Lincoln U) are State-related Institutions which in practice means they are are administered like "Private" institutions and are exempt from most of the state's "Right to Know".

They receive limited annual funding from the state so that they can give tuition deductions for residents of PA.

I knew that was the case with the University of Pittsburgh but did not know that was so for Pennsylvania State University and Temple University.

thanks for sharing.

(03-25-2026 11:47 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 09:42 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 09:04 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-24-2026 11:05 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  The problem I see for teams in the ACC is that they are just too big at 18 members. There are a lot of reasons for why each of those former Big East programs declined after they joined the ACC, but that’s not the problem. Any school can decline. But once you decline in a league that big, it becomes almost impossible to claw your way back to the top. We saw that in the old 16-member Big East. It was always the same group of teams in the bottom third. I think that was a large part of DePaul’s problem. They were a good program when they joined the Big East, a successful program. But once they fell to the bottom, it seemed like they could never get out. There were just too many teams between them and respectability.

The other problem for the former Big East schools in the ACC is that their basketball programs lost a tremendous recruiting advantage that came with Big East membership. Syracuse in particular used to bring in a ton of kids from New York City & the metro area. So did the other programs to a lesser extent. Regular season games with St. John’s & Seton Hall every year + the Bug East Tournament + local TV exposure are a winning combination with recruits. It’s just not the same when you’re playing in a Carolina focused league. The rivalries just don’t have the same meaning, something which UConn experienced in the AAC as they watched ticket sales decline in the AAC and then immediately start to rebound when they rejoined the Big East.

Good points, Bill. I do wonder if some of this is a "State U" thing. Of the 16 teams left in the tourney, only three (SJU, Duke and Houston) are not massive public "state-wide fanbase" universities with robust resources.

The ACC schools from the former Big East, and that are struggling, don't fit that "Big State U" model (though Notre Dame and Louisville have big budgets and fan bases).

It is seemingly easier to be competitive in a smaller league (in terms of number of members) than it is in a larger conference. The math works more effectively, I suppose.

Good point about State U, Bill. I think that’s very much the case. In that respect, the Big East schools joined the right league because the ACC is the only one of the P4 that already had more than 1 or 2 privates. Here are the numbers:

SEC - 1 private (Vanderbilt)
B1G - 2 privates (had only Northwestern before adding USC)
B12 - 3 privates (had only Baylor & TCU before adding BYU)
ACC - 8 privates (had Duke & Wake Forest before adding BC & Miami 23 years ago and then added Notre Dame & Syracuse 14 years ago and then Stanford & SMU most recently)

Mayb the ACC has been more receptive to private schools because UNC and UVA have operated more like privates for a long time with undergrad enrollments under 20,000 and highly selective admissions, both of which have earned them “public Ivy” designations. In addition, Clemson and Florida State were both founded as private colleges, so that’s in their DNA so to speak. Interestingly Pitt was a private university until 1966 and even today is not fully state owned. University of Louisville originated with h Jefferson Seminary in 1798, a private institution.

You just highlighted why the so-called P2 (the Big Ten and the SEC) are the best all-round conferences: they are overwhelming comprised of massive public universities.

To be clear: Creighton, Butler and Xavier strongly made the right call to join the Big East. And the BE has benefited from having all three.

I’m hopeful that small basketball focused schools can continue to perform well in this new era, but it’s impossible for me to know if we have the money to keep up. Regardless, I think that’s an advantage of the Big East. Other than UConn, we are medium sized schools committed to funding men’s basketball. Maybe the P2 will breakaway, but it doesn’t have to tear the conference apart (unlike with the PAC and probably eventually the ACC). And another major benefit Creighton got outside of sports was positive academic institutional affiliations. I’m sure Creighton loves being associated with a school like Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova. When Creighton joined the Big East it was ranked in US News as a “Masters Level” regional school and had the #1 ranking in the Midwest for like 15 years in a row or something. They clearly wanted to move up. Now they are on the national list (a lot of that had to do with the rankings considering professional degrees like Pharm.d, M.D., etc. when categorizing schools as national) and are close to cracking the top 100. I believe everyone else in the MVC was regional, but in the Big East nearly all the schools are national. And I’m sure Creighton hopes that building relationships, through things like the research poster competition, helps them establish themselves in people’s perception and the rankings.

(03-26-2026 09:15 AM)pjm.2021 Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 11:47 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 09:42 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  

(03-25-2026 09:04 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(03-24-2026 11:05 PM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  The problem I see for teams in the ACC is that they are just too big at 18 members. There are a lot of reasons for why each of those former Big East programs declined after they joined the ACC, but that’s not the problem. Any school can decline. But once you decline in a league that big, it becomes almost impossible to claw your way back to the top. We saw that in the old 16-member Big East. It was always the same group of teams in the bottom third. I think that was a large part of DePaul’s problem. They were a good program when they joined the Big East, a successful program. But once they fell to the bottom, it seemed like they could never get out. There were just too many teams between them and respectability.

The other problem for the former Big East schools in the ACC is that their basketball programs lost a tremendous recruiting advantage that came with Big East membership. Syracuse in particular used to bring in a ton of kids from New York City & the metro area. So did the other programs to a lesser extent. Regular season games with St. John’s & Seton Hall every year + the Bug East Tournament + local TV exposure are a winning combination with recruits. It’s just not the same when you’re playing in a Carolina focused league. The rivalries just don’t have the same meaning, something which UConn experienced in the AAC as they watched ticket sales decline in the AAC and then immediately start to rebound when they rejoined the Big East.

Good points, Bill. I do wonder if some of this is a "State U" thing. Of the 16 teams left in the tourney, only three (SJU, Duke and Houston) are not massive public "state-wide fanbase" universities with robust resources.

The ACC schools from the former Big East, and that are struggling, don't fit that "Big State U" model (though Notre Dame and Louisville have big budgets and fan bases).

It is seemingly easier to be competitive in a smaller league (in terms of number of members) than it is in a larger conference. The math works more effectively, I suppose.

Good point about State U, Bill. I think that’s very much the case. In that respect, the Big East schools joined the right league because the ACC is the only one of the P4 that already had more than 1 or 2 privates. Here are the numbers:

SEC - 1 private (Vanderbilt)
B1G - 2 privates (had only Northwestern before adding USC)
B12 - 3 privates (had only Baylor & TCU before adding BYU)
ACC - 8 privates (had Duke & Wake Forest before adding BC & Miami 23 years ago and then added Notre Dame & Syracuse 14 years ago and then Stanford & SMU most recently)

Mayb the ACC has been more receptive to private schools because UNC and UVA have operated more like privates for a long time with undergrad enrollments under 20,000 and highly selective admissions, both of which have earned them “public Ivy” designations. In addition, Clemson and Florida State were both founded as private colleges, so that’s in their DNA so to speak. Interestingly Pitt was a private university until 1966 and even today is not fully state owned. University of Louisville originated with h Jefferson Seminary in 1798, a private institution.

You just highlighted why the so-called P2 (the Big Ten and the SEC) are the best all-round conferences: they are overwhelming comprised of massive public universities.

To be clear: Creighton, Butler and Xavier strongly made the right call to join the Big East. And the BE has benefited from having all three.

I’m hopeful that small basketball focused schools can continue to perform well in this new era, but it’s impossible for me to know if we have the money to keep up. Regardless, I think that’s an advantage of the Big East. Other than UConn, we are medium sized schools committed to funding men’s basketball. Maybe the P2 will breakaway, but it doesn’t have to tear the conference apart (unlike with the PAC and probably eventually the ACC). And another major benefit Creighton got outside of sports was positive academic institutional affiliations. I’m sure Creighton loves being associated with a school like Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova. When Creighton joined the Big East it was ranked in US News as a “Masters Level” regional school and had the #1 ranking in the Midwest for like 15 years in a row or something. They clearly wanted to move up. Now they are on the national list (a lot of that had to do with the rankings considering professional degrees like Pharm.d, M.D., etc. when categorizing schools as national) and are close to cracking the top 100. I believe everyone else in the MVC was regional, but in the Big East nearly all the schools are national. And I’m sure Creighton hopes that building relationships, through things like the research poster competition, helps them establish themselves in people’s perception and the rankings.

I feel cautiously hopeful about the future of DePaul and Georgetown hoops. But at present ... some uncertainty for many athletic programs and conferences.