I can't get fired up about it, b/c nobody is forcing anybody to take out a 50-year loan, even if it is offered.

I thought it was an odd thing for Trump to even bring up, but I imagine he was trying to come up with ideas to spur first-time home buying. He doesn't always think things through before airing them out in public.

(11-12-2025 12:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I can't get fired up about it, b/c nobody is forcing anybody to take out a 50-year loan, even if it is offered.

I thought it was an odd thing for Trump to even bring up, but I imagine he was trying to come up with ideas to spur first-time home buying. He doesn't always think things through before airing them out in public.

You mean never thinks things through.

(11-12-2025 12:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I can't get fired up about it, b/c nobody is forcing anybody to take out a 50-year loan, even if it is offered.

I thought it was an odd thing for Trump to even bring up, but I imagine he was trying to come up with ideas to spur first-time home buying. He doesn't always think things through before airing them out in public.

it's beyond odd and quite concerning if you think it thru...

(11-12-2025 10:35 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-11-2025 07:18 PM)banker Wrote:  In 1980 a fast food worker made $3.35 an hour, now they make $15-$20 an hour. That’s essentially the same percent increase. Union auto workers have gone from $14 to $50 over the same period.

The Covid bloat from government spending is what has caused the biggest issues as home prices really shot up in 2021-23. In reality, homes don’t cost more, dollars are just worth less. Most people don’t understand that gas was more expensive in 1930 than it is today. It took 0.15 ounces of silver to buy a gallon of gas in 1930. Today it only takes 0.08 ounces to buy a gallon.

$50 an hour? What union autoworker makes that? Average union autoworker makes ~ $25/hr according to a quick search.

Also, that $86,000 house should be $338,000 in today's dollars, so the prices of homes have definitely gone up faster than inflation.

The answer is supply vs demand... we all know that more affordable houses need to be built, not more of these stupid McMansions.

I dont even think its the mix of homes being built. I suspect most of the issue is corporate or private equity interests buying single family homes. Thats whats new. Thats what has really changed---and these interests are buying a substantial percentage of the homes.

There is not a housing "shortage". There is plenty of inventory (in fact most market inventories are either at normal historical levels or starting to lean toward what would be typically considered an oversupply). There will always be a shortage in certain highly desirable areas---and there may be a shortage in a few limited metro areas---but most major US markets have now reached the point where a lack of inventory is no longer an issue. In fact, most builders are currently sitting on way more inventory than they want to have and are engaged in significant use of discounts and seller financing concessions. Despite a massive increase in inventories----the number of actual sales continues to stay at record lows.

Its not an inventory issue---its an affordability issue. Like I said before---in virtually every major market, the median salary is inadequate to qualify to buy the median home. I think whats happening is we have a strong pool of deep pocketed unemotional corporate buyers who are coming in and making cash offers that are not based on the same criteria and metrics the typical homebuyer seeking a home for their family might use. Remember---home values are set at the margins. In other words, only a small percentage of the housing stock is available for sale at any one point, and its ONLY this small percentage of homes that sets the values for the market. Ive come to the conclusion that even though private equity/investor/flipper money is only involved in about 20%-30% of home sales---thats enough to skew the pricing of the ENTIRE market because only a small percentage of homes are ever on the market at one time.

(11-12-2025 12:49 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 12:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I can't get fired up about it, b/c nobody is forcing anybody to take out a 50-year loan, even if it is offered.

I thought it was an odd thing for Trump to even bring up, but I imagine he was trying to come up with ideas to spur first-time home buying. He doesn't always think things through before airing them out in public.

it's beyond odd and quite concerning if you think it thru...

I'm too old to care. Not buying another house.

And taking out a mortgage one qualifies for is still a free will decision, last time I checked.

(11-12-2025 12:57 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 10:35 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(11-11-2025 07:18 PM)banker Wrote:  In 1980 a fast food worker made $3.35 an hour, now they make $15-$20 an hour. That’s essentially the same percent increase. Union auto workers have gone from $14 to $50 over the same period.

The Covid bloat from government spending is what has caused the biggest issues as home prices really shot up in 2021-23. In reality, homes don’t cost more, dollars are just worth less. Most people don’t understand that gas was more expensive in 1930 than it is today. It took 0.15 ounces of silver to buy a gallon of gas in 1930. Today it only takes 0.08 ounces to buy a gallon.

$50 an hour? What union autoworker makes that? Average union autoworker makes ~ $25/hr according to a quick search.

Also, that $86,000 house should be $338,000 in today's dollars, so the prices of homes have definitely gone up faster than inflation.

The answer is supply vs demand... we all know that more affordable houses need to be built, not more of these stupid McMansions.

I dont even think its the mix of homes being built. I suspect most of the issue is corporate or private equity interests buying single family homes. Thats whats new. Thats what has really changed---and these interests are buying a substantial percentage of the homes.

There is not a housing "shortage". There is plenty of inventory (in fact most markets are either in balance or starting to lean toward an oversupply). There will always be a shortage in certain highly desirable areas---and there may be a shortage in a few limited metro areas---but most major US markets have now reached the point where a lack of inventory is no longer an issue (most builders are currently sitting on way more inventory than they want to have). Despite a massive increase in inventories----the number of actual sales continues to stay at record lows.

Its not an inventory issue---its an afforability issue. Like I said before---in virutally every major market, the median salary is inadequate to qualify to buy the median home. I think whats happening is we have a strong pool of deep pocketed unemotional corporate buyers who are coming in and making cash offers that are not based on the same criteria and metrics as the typical homebuyer seeking a home for their family. When you consider that home values are set at the margins (only a small percentage of the housing stock is available for sale at any one point, and its ONLY this small percentage of homes that set the market), Ive come to the conclusion that even though private equity money is only buying 20% houses---thats enough to skew the pricing of the ENTIRE market because only a small percentage of homes are ever on the market at one time.

toss in the mass exodus with inflated $$$, and you have a prescription for those fellers lickin' their chompers...

we've discuss blackcocKKK and their relatives on numerous occasions ... now a 50 yr ... yeah, fk off...

the housing market collapse in '08 was 1000% by design...

(11-12-2025 01:00 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 12:49 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 12:45 PM)TripleA Wrote:  I can't get fired up about it, b/c nobody is forcing anybody to take out a 50-year loan, even if it is offered.

I thought it was an odd thing for Trump to even bring up, but I imagine he was trying to come up with ideas to spur first-time home buying. He doesn't always think things through before airing them out in public.

it's beyond odd and quite concerning if you think it thru...

I'm too old to care. Not buying another house.

And taking out a mortgage one qualifies for is still a free will decision, last time I checked.

so am I ... but me daughter isn't...

when she and hers pull the trigger, they won't have to worry about PMI...

(11-12-2025 12:38 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 11:57 AM)TripleA Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 11:11 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  Asbestos was a bad idea, too. Just don't install it if you don't want to!

I keeed, I keeeed.

I'm just getting a kick out of you being so fired up about this subject. We have known each other a long time online, and I don't recall you ever getting so fired up about something.

Honestly, I thought it was kind of a throw-away thread. I just thought it was odd that Trump would even bother with the idea. He apparently thinks (or some around him think) this will help first-time buyers.

I didn't realize it was the idea from hell, especially since I will never buy another house. :)

Btw, your asbestos analogy doesn't work. If you weren't involved in building a house, you didn't get a choice about being around it, or not. With a mortgage, nobody forces you to take out a 50-year loan, even if it is ever offered.

b/c he understands the long game and the scam ... that's why...

Yup.

A few things about median home price - 24 states have a median under $400,000, several of those are under $300,000. The most populous state, California, is over $900,000, which throws water on the meaning of a national figure.

Second thing - in 1980 the median new home size was 1,595 square feet. In 2024 it was 2,384 square feet. So the house you are buying now is about 50% larger than in 1980. To do an apple to Apple, you have to compare the average price of a 1,600 square foot house in 1980 to the same thing in 2025. You can’t say “my john boat was only $500 in 1980, but my yacht in 2025 cost a million. No one can afford a boat anymore.” The “average” home in 1980 didn’t have 2.5 baths, granite countertops, and many of the other luxuries that are standard today.

By the way, the value argument only reinforces the argument that people need avenues to home ownership. My dad died when I was 4 in 1969. My mom got an insurance check for $25,000 and bought a 1,300 sf, 3 bed, 1.5 bath home for $21,000. She sold the house in 1991 for $140,000 when she moved to Florida. It’s not like home appreciation is a new phenomenon.

(11-12-2025 11:02 PM)banker Wrote:  A few things about median home price - 24 states have a median under $400,000, several of those are under $300,000. The most populous state, California, is over $900,000, which throws water on the meaning of a national figure.

Second thing - in 1980 the median new home size was 1,595 square feet. In 2024 it was 2,384 square feet. So the house you are buying now is about 50% larger than in 1980. To do an apple to Apple, you have to compare the average price of a 1,600 square foot house in 1980 to the same thing in 2025. You can’t say “my john boat was only $500 in 1980, but my yacht in 2025 cost a million. No one can afford a boat anymore.” The “average” home in 1980 didn’t have 2.5 baths, granite countertops, and many of the other luxuries that are standard today.

By the way, the value argument only reinforces the argument that people need avenues to home ownership. My dad died when I was 4 in 1969. My mom got an insurance check for $25,000 and bought a 1,300 sf, 3 bed, 1.5 bath home for $21,000. She sold the house in 1991 for $140,000 when she moved to Florida. It’s not like home appreciation is a new phenomenon.

hence, why statistics are for fools as the mass exodus only prolongs equilibrium...

this is why the elite should fear deflation in the housing market in the 'blue' ... too many don't realize our greatest asset and how pop control coupled with real growth is the key ... hence, why 20 under a roof with an open border was/is socialized-donk-tardia-soros-globohomo-corpshite's plan after the designed collapse in '08...

it's truly amazing how many whiff it...

that's the nuts...

(11-12-2025 11:15 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 11:02 PM)banker Wrote:  A few things about median home price - 24 states have a median under $400,000, several of those are under $300,000. The most populous state, California, is over $900,000, which throws water on the meaning of a national figure.

Second thing - in 1980 the median new home size was 1,595 square feet. In 2024 it was 2,384 square feet. So the house you are buying now is about 50% larger than in 1980. To do an apple to Apple, you have to compare the average price of a 1,600 square foot house in 1980 to the same thing in 2025. You can’t say “my john boat was only $500 in 1980, but my yacht in 2025 cost a million. No one can afford a boat anymore.” The “average” home in 1980 didn’t have 2.5 baths, granite countertops, and many of the other luxuries that are standard today.

By the way, the value argument only reinforces the argument that people need avenues to home ownership. My dad died when I was 4 in 1969. My mom got an insurance check for $25,000 and bought a 1,300 sf, 3 bed, 1.5 bath home for $21,000. She sold the house in 1991 for $140,000 when she moved to Florida. It’s not like home appreciation is a new phenomenon.

hence, why statistics are for fools as the mass exodus only prolongs equilibrium...

this is why the elite should fear deflation in the housing market in the 'blue' ... too many don't realize our greatest asset and how pop control coupled with real growth is the key ... hence, why 20 under a roof with an open border was/is socialized-donk-tardia-soros-globohomo-corpshite's plan after the designed collapse in '08...

it's truly amazing how many whiff it...

that's the nuts...

Yeah. Amazes me how people can get so fired up over gay or trans issues but it barely registers when you see the economic rip offs happening to all of us on a regular basis. Forced to buy cars with base packages today that were luxury features yesterday resulting in gross price jumps well beyond inflation, the planned obsolescence found in our durable goods and the inability of us to be able to repair these items ourselves, M&A deals that result in you having the false sense of choice when buying products ("competing" brands being owned by Unilever, for example), etc, etc.

Don't forget the offshoring of jobs thanks to our "trade deals" and H1B visa abuse too. Almost forgot - the corporate welfare in general.

Corporations partnered with the government are expanding their power and influence in scary ways. But don't worry, here's another (now legal..LULZ!) online betting parlor to entertain you while you enjoy your favorite sports!

(11-13-2025 07:21 AM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 11:15 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(11-12-2025 11:02 PM)banker Wrote:  A few things about median home price - 24 states have a median under $400,000, several of those are under $300,000. The most populous state, California, is over $900,000, which throws water on the meaning of a national figure.

Second thing - in 1980 the median new home size was 1,595 square feet. In 2024 it was 2,384 square feet. So the house you are buying now is about 50% larger than in 1980. To do an apple to Apple, you have to compare the average price of a 1,600 square foot house in 1980 to the same thing in 2025. You can’t say “my john boat was only $500 in 1980, but my yacht in 2025 cost a million. No one can afford a boat anymore.” The “average” home in 1980 didn’t have 2.5 baths, granite countertops, and many of the other luxuries that are standard today.

By the way, the value argument only reinforces the argument that people need avenues to home ownership. My dad died when I was 4 in 1969. My mom got an insurance check for $25,000 and bought a 1,300 sf, 3 bed, 1.5 bath home for $21,000. She sold the house in 1991 for $140,000 when she moved to Florida. It’s not like home appreciation is a new phenomenon.

hence, why statistics are for fools as the mass exodus only prolongs equilibrium...

this is why the elite should fear deflation in the housing market in the 'blue' ... too many don't realize our greatest asset and how pop control coupled with real growth is the key ... hence, why 20 under a roof with an open border was/is socialized-donk-tardia-soros-globohomo-corpshite's plan after the designed collapse in '08...

it's truly amazing how many whiff it...

that's the nuts...

Yeah. Amazes me how people can get so fired up over gay or trans issues but it barely registers when you see the economic rip offs happening to all of us on a regular basis. Forced to buy cars with base packages today that were luxury features yesterday resulting in gross price jumps well beyond inflation, the planned obsolescence found in our durable goods and the inability of us to be able to repair these items ourselves, M&A deals that result in you having the false sense of choice when buying products ("competing" brands being owned by Unilever, for example), etc, etc.

Don't forget the offshoring of jobs thanks to our "trade deals" and H1B visa abuse too. Almost forgot - the corporate welfare in general.

Corporations partnered with the government are expanding their power and influence in scary ways. But don't worry, here's another (now legal..LULZ!) online betting parlor to entertain you while you enjoy your favorite sports!

lol ... emptor caveat (from a former bookie) ...

DescriptionRisk / Win
400.00 / 200.00
Southern Mississippi - Regular Season Wins 2025
[53773] Over 4½ -200
(Must play every scheduled regular season game for action)
Sport: Football
Selection: NCAA - Regular Season Wins
Risk/Win: 400 / 200
Accepted: Jul 09, 2025 8:12 AM - Internet
Scheduled: Aug 23, 2025 5:00 AM
Ticket Number: 185308752
Outcome: Pending

100.00 / 900.00
NCAAF 2025/26 Sun Belt Conference - Winner
[85376] Southern Miss Golden Eagles +900
Sport: Football
Selection: NCAA - Conferences
Risk/Win: 100 / 900
Accepted: Jun 25, 2025 5:19 PM - Internet
Scheduled: Aug 23, 2025 8:00 AM
Ticket Number: 184998220
Outcome: Pending

Trump says no tax on tips will fix all this.