Quote:"Sin taxes" are and always have been a bad idea. It's not the government's place to try to manipulate our behavior, unless that behavior is causing harm to someone else. It's not the government's place to wag their fingers at us for eating bacon, or smoking the occasional cigar, or enjoying a snort of good whiskey now and then. But there are always those in and out of government, most commonly (but not exclusively) on the left, who want to use the power of taxation to regulate our behavior.

Which brings us to excessive cellular phone use. It can be puzzling, sure; my wife and I once, while traveling in the lower 48, went to a breakfast restaurant for a bite and were bemused to observe what appeared to be a father with three teenage daughters; all four came in, sat down, took out their phones, and scrolled through the entire meal. They only spoke to place their orders. Not a word was exchanged before, during, or after the meal, not from father to daughters, nor vice versa.

That's a bit odd. But should the government tax this kind of behavior? Bloomberg's Matthew Yglesias thinks it should. And that's a dumb idea.

Americans are reading less, sleeping less and partying less. We have fewer marriages, fewer children and fewer friends than we used to. Our children are doing worse in school.

Yes, all of those things are correct. He writes about the overuse of the internet and describes a few "nibbling at the edges" ideas. But it's Mr. Yglesias's proposed solution that triggers the "dumb" button:

But there is a need to go broader, especially in a world of growing fiscal deficits. Why not tax policy that discourages the all-you-can-stream ad-supported business model? How about a tax on digital advertising? Subscription-based models work for content that people are proud to consume, while ad-supported ones reward quantity over quality. I might also consider a progressive levy on broadband consumption, creating something like a return to the early days of cell phones, when people used them but had to be mindful of their minutes. That would allow people to use the internet for valuable activities while discouraging zombie-like scrolling.

In such a world, the tech industry would still be very powerful, tech companies would still be very large, and tech entrepreneurs would still be very rich. But the overall direction of entrepreneurial activity would shift away from low-value engagement and toward the many other things that can be done with digital technology. And Americans might spend less time watching streaming video and more time doing something more productive — which is to say, basically anything else.

No. Just no.

First, it's not the role of government to protect us from ourselves in this manner. One could make a case, I suppose, for taxing tobacco, a substance with known risks to health. One could also make a case for taxing booze to reduce the odds of excessive consumption and the health issues that can come from that. I don't favor such taxes, but at least there's an argument for them. But why cell phone use? Are we to tax it because Matthew Yglesias finds it annoying? I find it annoying, too, but as Thomas Jefferson reportedly said, "If it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my arm, it's none of my concern."

Second, the purpose of taxation should be to raise revenues for essential government purposes, not to alter behavior.

The left always favors more, not less, control. Always. Yes, cellular phone use can be a bad thing when taken to extremes, as in the case described above. But we are still supposedly a free people, and that means we are free to decide to bury ourselves in the rabbit warren that is the online world. For the younger generations in particular, it is their parents, not the overbearing hand of government, that should be making that decision.

In the case I described above, when we talked about it later - my wife and I talk about everything, and after 34 years together, we still talk to each other - I opined, and she agreed, that the father here should have said, "This is a family event. No phones. Put them away." That, not a sin tax, is the solution.

Link

No politician on either side will agree to that.

(10-28-2025 12:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  No politician on either side will agree to that.

Unless they're exempt from it.

(10-28-2025 12:26 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 12:25 PM)mlb Wrote:  No politician on either side will agree to that.

Unless they're exempt from it.

They still won't... it will be pretty much the beginning of the end of their time in office.

They already tax them when you buy them and then they tax the monthly service charges.

This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

I would note that nothing made here has a tariff---and I would also note that every single nation was given an open offer of reciprocal tariff free trade. Any nation embroiled in a trade dispute with the US has tariffs on US goods. And yet---people still cant understand why only burger flipper and delivery gig jobs seem to be all thats left of our economy.

(10-28-2025 03:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

I would note that nothing made here has a tariff---and I would also note that every single nation was given an open offer of reciprocal tariff free trade. Any nation embroiled in a trade dispute with the US has tariffs on US goods. And yet---people still cant understand why only burger flipper and delivery gig jobs seem to be all thats left of our economy.

And almost everything made "here" has some foreign made components. And we make almost NO electronics here.

(10-28-2025 03:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

I would note that nothing made here has a tariff---and I would also note that every single nation was given an open offer of reciprocal tariff free trade. Any nation embroiled in a trade dispute with the US has tariffs on US goods. And yet---people still cant understand why only burger flipper and delivery gig jobs seem to be all thats left of our economy.

And almost everything made "here" has some foreign made components. And we make almost NO electronics here.

Seems like maybe your starting to get the point.....slowly but surely. There are key industries that you have to manufacture locally or you cant guarantee the security of your people or your nation. Food---energy---medicines----high end chips--heavy industry (cars, ships, steel) and increasingly----rare earth elements. As an aside----I think we could afford to have the kind of efficient world wide supply chains as long as we were the worlds only superpower and everyone was willing to follow the rules. Now that we have several peer expansionist nations interested in empire building---the kind of nations that dont seem as interested in following the American Rules Based World Order----we cant really afford to have the kind of far flung supply chains that require the cooperation of unfriendly nations like we've allowed to develop since the late 1990's.

(10-28-2025 06:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

I would note that nothing made here has a tariff---and I would also note that every single nation was given an open offer of reciprocal tariff free trade. Any nation embroiled in a trade dispute with the US has tariffs on US goods. And yet---people still cant understand why only burger flipper and delivery gig jobs seem to be all thats left of our economy.

And almost everything made "here" has some foreign made components. And we make almost NO electronics here.

Seems like maybe your starting to get the point.....slowly but surely. There are key industries that you have to manufacture locally or you cant guarantee the security of your people or your nation. Food---energy---medicines----high end chips--heavy industry (cars, ships, steel) and increasingly----rare earth elements. As an aside----I think we could afford to have the kind of efficient world wide supply chains as long as we were the worlds only superpower and everyone was willing to follow the rules. Now that we have several peer expansionist nations interested in empire building---the kind of nations that dont seem as interested in following the American Rules Based World Order----we cant really afford to have the kind of far flung supply chains that require the cooperation of unfriendly nations like we've allowed to develop since the late 1990's.

Get what point? US Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. It's simply not viable for most of them to attempt to make everything here with American components...many of which simply don't even exist or can't be made here and still fit profit models.

Not to mention the global economy is basically what we installed after WWII. And no, not all countries...or even a majority of them...take advantage of us even with the trade imbalance. Mostly for that very reason...that things just can't be made anywhere and still be sold with enough profit.

And your use of "unfriendly nations" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting.

We have a spending problem - not a taxing problem.

(10-28-2025 06:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

I would note that nothing made here has a tariff---and I would also note that every single nation was given an open offer of reciprocal tariff free trade. Any nation embroiled in a trade dispute with the US has tariffs on US goods. And yet---people still cant understand why only burger flipper and delivery gig jobs seem to be all thats left of our economy.

And almost everything made "here" has some foreign made components. And we make almost NO electronics here.

Seems like maybe your starting to get the point.....slowly but surely. There are key industries that you have to manufacture locally or you cant guarantee the security of your people or your nation. Food---energy---medicines----high end chips--heavy industry (cars, ships, steel) and increasingly----rare earth elements. As an aside----I think we could afford to have the kind of efficient world wide supply chains as long as we were the worlds only superpower and everyone was willing to follow the rules. Now that we have several peer expansionist nations interested in empire building---the kind of nations that dont seem as interested in following the American Rules Based World Order----we cant really afford to have the kind of far flung supply chains that require the cooperation of unfriendly nations like we've allowed to develop since the late 1990's.

Yep, I'm guessing none of the anti-tariff people have even looked into why the Japanese auto manufacturers started to build US based factories in the 80s. Part of the reason was to avoid tariffs, which is the same concept Trump is trying to get at with these new tariffs. Either pay the tariff, move production to the US, or US based consumers can simply by local. Same concepts, different century/decade.

(10-29-2025 06:55 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 06:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:20 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:13 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

I would note that nothing made here has a tariff---and I would also note that every single nation was given an open offer of reciprocal tariff free trade. Any nation embroiled in a trade dispute with the US has tariffs on US goods. And yet---people still cant understand why only burger flipper and delivery gig jobs seem to be all thats left of our economy.

And almost everything made "here" has some foreign made components. And we make almost NO electronics here.

Seems like maybe your starting to get the point.....slowly but surely. There are key industries that you have to manufacture locally or you cant guarantee the security of your people or your nation. Food---energy---medicines----high end chips--heavy industry (cars, ships, steel) and increasingly----rare earth elements. As an aside----I think we could afford to have the kind of efficient world wide supply chains as long as we were the worlds only superpower and everyone was willing to follow the rules. Now that we have several peer expansionist nations interested in empire building---the kind of nations that dont seem as interested in following the American Rules Based World Order----we cant really afford to have the kind of far flung supply chains that require the cooperation of unfriendly nations like we've allowed to develop since the late 1990's.

Get what point? US Companies exist to make money for their shareholders. It's simply not viable for most of them to attempt to make everything here with American components...many of which simply don't even exist or can't be made here and still fit profit models.

Not to mention the global economy is basically what we installed after WWII. And no, not all countries...or even a majority of them...take advantage of us even with the trade imbalance. Mostly for that very reason...that things just can't be made anywhere and still be sold with enough profit.

And your use of "unfriendly nations" is doing a LOT of heavy lifting.

Which works pretty well as long as everyone follows the rules and we are the ONLY superpower. Thats not really how the world looks today. Its devolving back into the old age of empires where each empire requires its own internal supply chains for security reasons. In that kind of world----if you cant produce or mine a crtical resource internally----you conquer a place that CAN provide that resource and make them your colony. Thats where the world is heading----and that fight over resources was essentially the base cause of most every war---including a pair of increasingly deadly world wars that spun up barely two decades apart. The last 80 years, which we regard as normal---is actually the exception to how the world has always worked. Sadly, after nearly 8 decades of no world wars under the American Rules Based World Order, it looks like the world is about to return to the same empire system that was generating a World War about once every 20 years of so. Maybe America can still stop it----but it absolutely cannot stop it if America can be held hostage by those that want to return to an age of regional empires.

Notwithstanding the above discourse on the structure of tariffs, it is pretty funny to see a post whining about Dems looking to tax smartphones when Trump has put on an effective tax on almost every single item in commerce -- that is both full foreign made items *and* every foreign made component.

And here is someone clamoring about Dems looking at taxing cellphones. Lolz.

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

You mean like the idiotic tariffs of our Founding Fathers, who used them to fund the Fed gov until we made the brilliant move to install the federal income tax?

Some serious retarded posts by the usual suspects.



Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

(10-29-2025 03:35 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(10-28-2025 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  This is pretty funny...as trump taxes about everything with his idiotic tariffs.

You mean like the idiotic tariffs of our Founding Fathers, who used them to fund the Fed gov until we made the brilliant move to install the federal income tax?

Then I suggest you work pronto to head back to that time.

Again, funny to see the folks who seemingly get in an irate swoon about smartphone taxes and dont seem to mind at all, let alone acknowledge, the *massive* tariff overhead and indirect tax of those same tariffs.

Neat stuff.

Blah blah blah...I haven't said a single word about smartphone taxes. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

(10-29-2025 06:15 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Blah blah blah...I haven't said a single word about smartphone taxes. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Responding to the thread overall, champ. Having a bad Geritol day, friend? Lolz.

And you wonder why I keep referring to you as a whiny *****. Double lolz.

(10-29-2025 08:27 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(10-29-2025 06:15 PM)TripleA Wrote:  Blah blah blah...I haven't said a single word about smartphone taxes. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?

Responding to the thread overall, champ. Having a bad Geritol day, friend? Lolz.

And you wonder why I keep referring to you as a whiny *****. Double lolz.

The only thing I wonder about is why your mama never taught you any manners.