Kids used to work and add income to the family

(06-29-2025 10:05 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 08:56 PM)fsquid Wrote:  kids are expensive.

Modern societies have chosen, through various legal/political choices — to make kids expensive. Or more precisely, the act of raising kids.

It wasn’t like that in the past. It doesn’t have to be that way now. And — once people learn what it means to live in a time of declining population — it won’t be like that in the future, either.

We are the wealthiest society in human history. The expense of kids is higher today, but as a percentage of income kids are cheaper than they were in the past.

If the decline in fertility was due to the expense, you'd see poorer people having fewer kids than wealthy people. But the data shows very little relationship between income and fertility rate.

What's more important is that the amount of time spent watching your kids has increased.

In the 50s, you could send a 7 year old out all day and they'd come back in at dark.

In the 90s, you could send a 10 year old out all day and they'd come back in at dark.

Today, people in Democrat states are investigated by CPS if they let their 12 year old walk down the street alone.

And to be perfectly honest, Republican states are little better. The societal expectation is that every child under 14 needs adult supervision 24/7. It's so different than when I was a kid, and I was a full-blown babysitter working for pay by age 11.

(06-29-2025 08:56 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 07:54 PM)b2b Wrote:  Glad the conservatives are out breeding libs but 1.76 is still pathetic.

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kids are expensive.

I've got 4 kids. They're not as expensive as people act like. The problem is that a lot of people think they (and their kids) need things that they don't really need. The amount of money parents piss away on travel sports for example blows my mind. Families who I know can't afford it thinking their kid will get athletic scholarships. I've tried to walk them through the numbers and odds (529 plans vs athletic scholarship odds) to no avail. The family doesn't have to have a boat. They don't have to go to Disney. They don't have to drive a new Suburban. That's just a small example of crap parents waste money on. I see it all the time and then people ***** about how much KIDS cost.

(06-30-2025 11:06 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 08:56 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 07:54 PM)b2b Wrote:  Glad the conservatives are out breeding libs but 1.76 is still pathetic.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

kids are expensive.

I've got 4 kids. They're not as expensive as people act like. The problem is that a lot of people think they (and their kids) need things that they don't really need. The amount of money parents piss away on travel sports for example blows my mind. Families who I know can't afford it thinking their kid will get athletic scholarships. I've tried to walk them through the numbers and odds (529 plans vs athletic scholarship odds) to no avail. The family doesn't have to have a boat. They don't have to go to Disney. They don't have to drive a new Suburban. That's just a small example of crap parents waste money on. I see it all the time and then people ***** about how much KIDS cost.

Fully agree with this.

I've got 5 little kids right now. Many of my friends are raising 3-6 kids on Catholic teacher salaries of under $50k, and their kids aren't lacking in anything important. Some of them have even approached me about how to set up college savings funds, because they managed to save up extra cash but aren't very investment-savvy.


My oldest boy has been invited to travel teams in 3 different sports, some of which are for-profit ventures for the team owner. He is 8.

On his local rec baseball team, all of his teammates (except those whose parents are Catholic school teachers) had baseball bags, 2 bats, and at least one helmet. Several of them have real pitching machines at home. In a 10u rec league where almost no one is talented enough to play in high school. They were still in coach-pitch just last year!

Travel baseball is 40-60 games a year starting at age 6. And that's baseball. Hockey, volleyball, and cheerleading are far worse. And forget about rich kids' sports like tennis, lacrosse, or equestrian - lots of people spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on those.


But the biggest thing I've noticed people waste money on is house renovations. It's absurd how many people insist on the most up-to-date architecture in their kitchens. And since they don't know how to swing a hammer, they pay out the nose for it.

Also three of my friends bought campers in the last year. "To camp with the kids." Apparently tents are going out of style.

(06-30-2025 11:06 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 08:56 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 07:54 PM)b2b Wrote:  Glad the conservatives are out breeding libs but 1.76 is still pathetic.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

kids are expensive.

I've got 4 kids. They're not as expensive as people act like. The problem is that a lot of people think they (and their kids) need things that they don't really need. The amount of money parents piss away on travel sports for example blows my mind. Families who I know can't afford it thinking their kid will get athletic scholarships. I've tried to walk them through the numbers and odds (529 plans vs athletic scholarship odds) to no avail. The family doesn't have to have a boat. They don't have to go to Disney. They don't have to drive a new Suburban. That's just a small example of crap parents waste money on. I see it all the time and then people ***** about how much KIDS cost.

yeah, good point. all true. More often then not people I see struggling w/ money the most are biggest spenders on junk they don't need

Usually concern I think is price of healthcare & college (which more & more are realizing is useless)

(06-30-2025 03:38 PM)Bronco14 Wrote:  

(06-30-2025 11:06 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 08:56 PM)fsquid Wrote:  

(06-29-2025 07:54 PM)b2b Wrote:  Glad the conservatives are out breeding libs but 1.76 is still pathetic.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

kids are expensive.

I've got 4 kids. They're not as expensive as people act like. The problem is that a lot of people think they (and their kids) need things that they don't really need. The amount of money parents piss away on travel sports for example blows my mind. Families who I know can't afford it thinking their kid will get athletic scholarships. I've tried to walk them through the numbers and odds (529 plans vs athletic scholarship odds) to no avail. The family doesn't have to have a boat. They don't have to go to Disney. They don't have to drive a new Suburban. That's just a small example of crap parents waste money on. I see it all the time and then people ***** about how much KIDS cost.

yeah, good point. all true. More often then not people I see struggling w/ money the most are biggest spenders on junk they don't need

Usually concern I think is price of healthcare & college (which more & more are realizing is useless)

College sticker prices are huge, but almost no one pays the sticker price. If they don't offer you a scholarship, they don't really want you (and you probably don't belong there).

And colleges have TONS of need-based aid available. At all the Ivy League schools, anyone whose parents make under $75k go for free.


Health care depends on the job. My out-of-pocket max is $6k/year.

People who have kids and make small salaries qualify for Medicaid and pay very little. A family of 5 qualifies for medicaid if they make under $52k/year.


The people who feel stuck are those in the middle. For people who make $40-$70k, there's roughly an 80% marginal tax rate because you become disqualified from so many aid programs. You think that $20k raise means you can buy a bigger house, but $16k of the raise goes towards taxes or towards increased expenses to replace the government programs that you're no longer eligible for.

And that makes you feel stuck: a moderate raise doesn't actually increase your standard of living (and it may actually make your financial situation worse if you don't realize that and spend the raise before it arrives).