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If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #261
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 12:45 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:34 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:20 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-23-2025 09:06 PM)TxSt1992 Wrote:  
(01-23-2025 08:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably the reason why Sam Houston didn’t show any interest in the MWC. Their AD said (I’m paraphrasing) they’d rather help C-USA grow or be open to a regional conference.

I can definitely see Sam Houston joining the SBC in a heartbeat. They would be a better fit for the Sunbelt than TXST.

If Texas State were to leave the SBC I don’t see the SBC replacing them with another Texas school. Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really. We just left a conference with 4 schools in Texas and playing them didn’t do a thing for us except make us spend more on travel.

"Means nothing"? A bold comment. Having a Texas presence may not mean much to the Belt specifically or to a G league in general. But having a member in Texas (and Florida, if possible, for that matter) is never fully meaningless in college football. Let's be reasonable about this.

What does an Eastern school get out of playing Rice, UNT, UTEP and UTSA? Florida is a different story.

Some of this involves "intangibles." It simply "looks good" for the Belt, C-USA and the AAC to have a Texas presence. Texas (the state) is associated with "big-timeness" in college football. Call that explanation odd if you will — but lots of folks I talk to agree with that concept.

There is also the argument (not sure how accurate it is) for any school to potentially recruit more effectively in a state in which its league has a member than would otherwise be the case.

I simply feel for you to note "means nothing" is extreme. Losing Texas State (and a member in that state) would mean at least a little something to the Belt.

An extreme example: Gonzaga wants to join the Sun Belt. I am 99.99 percent sure the Belt officials would, at the very least, strongly consider the possibility of adding Gonzaga (even though the geography and GU's lack of football would be hugely problematic).

Bottom line: There are some states and some schools that — despite any (or many) negatives — will always offer some positives.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2025 12:59 PM by bill dazzle.)
01-31-2025 12:56 PM
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ballantyneapp Offline
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Post: #262
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 10:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be curious to know from App fans which group of eight football programs they would prefer to see AppState play each year (hypothetically with any four at home and the other four on the road).

The AAC's Army, Navy, ECU, Charlotte, USF, UAB, Tulane and Memphis

or

pick any eight from the Sun Belt

I think every app fan ideally would want to have a mix of the two. And remember the original thought exercise was that Memphis and Tulane are gone so replace them with two other AAC programs like North Texas and Temple and it becomes much less appetizing.
01-31-2025 01:11 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #263
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 01:11 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 10:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be curious to know from App fans which group of eight football programs they would prefer to see AppState play each year (hypothetically with any four at home and the other four on the road).

The AAC's Army, Navy, ECU, Charlotte, USF, UAB, Tulane and Memphis

or

pick any eight from the Sun Belt

I think every app fan ideally would want to have a mix of the two. And remember the original thought exercise was that Memphis and Tulane are gone so replace them with two other AAC programs like North Texas and Temple and it becomes much less appetizing.

All this makes sense and I can see the "blend of the two groupings" you reference.

If Memphis and Tulane leave the AAC, it seems the only (hypothetical) appealing option for a Belt member to make the move to the AAC would be if three others were also doing so (as opposed to, say, only one other). Four moving in tandem potentially could work.

Even then, however, the AAC might not be able to poach from the Sun Belt. The Belt "makes sense" for its members collectively much more so than the AAC "makes sense" for its members collectively. There is no, for example, SBC school that sticks out like a sore thumb to the degree to which some AAC members are odd fits (and I would argue Memphis has become an odd fit, in some respects, for the AAC).

If I were a fan of a Sun Belt school, I would like the cohesion/unity of the league. My main criticism of some pro-Belt posters on this board is that they stress that cohesion/unity (and understandably so) while conveniently failing to admit that many SBC members have no choice to be unified (where are they going to go?). In other words, it's easy to be unified when unity is among your top calling cards. I've made this constructive criticism of pro-Big East fans who have compared the quality of BE men's hoops to the lack of quality of AAC men's hoops. In short, it's easier for the Big East to be collectively good (compared to AAC basketball), in part, because the BE does not have to worry about football.

I trust Boone/Asheville/Western North Carolina are bouncing back from the floods.

04-cheers
01-31-2025 01:34 PM
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b0ndsj0ns Offline
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Post: #264
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 01:11 PM)ballantyneapp Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 10:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be curious to know from App fans which group of eight football programs they would prefer to see AppState play each year (hypothetically with any four at home and the other four on the road).

The AAC's Army, Navy, ECU, Charlotte, USF, UAB, Tulane and Memphis

or

pick any eight from the Sun Belt

I think every app fan ideally would want to have a mix of the two. And remember the original thought exercise was that Memphis and Tulane are gone so replace them with two other AAC programs like North Texas and Temple and it becomes much less appetizing.

Each conference has "unappealing" members, and each would vary widely based upon personal preference. For example, not that I would put them at the bottom of the SBC list, but Georgia Southern would be a very meh opponent for me as an ECU fan but for you guys with decades of history and rivalry that's a game I'm sure you would not want to have to give up.

Outside of USM the entire west of the SBC has zero meaning to me, ask me if I'd rather play UNT or UL and my answer would be I don't care either way. Just to be quite frank Tulane and Memphis aren't really that high on my give a crap about playing list. Them being good and ranked lately is the only reason I wouldn't have them ranked right down there the same with any other random AAC team.

If you asked me which group do I find more appealing the east coast portion of the AAC which is

Temple/Army/Navy/Charlotte/USF/FAU

Or the SBC East of

App/Coastal/JMU/ODU/Marshall/the 2 GSU's

I'm gonna be honest it's the AAC east group. If I were doing a draft of the top 6 among the 2 groups there would be 3 absolute no brainer picks in App/Army/Navy. Ones I'd just to be frank wouldn't even consider are the 2 GSU's and FAU. I can't imagine any world I'm not picking USF out of that group and then it would come down to Temple/Charlotte/ODU/JMU/Marshall/Coastal to pick the last 2. For me personally you could just flip a coin I could make arguments for any of them but the only one I have strong feelings about is Charlotte, who I'd probably personally include but I know that would not be a completely shared opinion among ECU fans.
01-31-2025 01:44 PM
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ESE84 Offline
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Post: #265
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 12:45 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:34 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:20 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-23-2025 09:06 PM)TxSt1992 Wrote:  
(01-23-2025 08:56 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Probably the reason why Sam Houston didn’t show any interest in the MWC. Their AD said (I’m paraphrasing) they’d rather help C-USA grow or be open to a regional conference.

I can definitely see Sam Houston joining the SBC in a heartbeat. They would be a better fit for the Sunbelt than TXST.

If Texas State were to leave the SBC I don’t see the SBC replacing them with another Texas school. Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really. We just left a conference with 4 schools in Texas and playing them didn’t do a thing for us except make us spend more on travel.

"Means nothing"? A bold comment. Having a Texas presence may not mean much to the Belt specifically or to a G league in general. But having a member in Texas (and Florida, if possible, for that matter) is never fully meaningless in college football. Let's be reasonable about this.

What does an Eastern school get out of playing Rice, UNT, UTEP and UTSA? Florida is a different story.

Army and Navy football value the opportunity to play in Texas.

All AAC members, including our eastern schools, value having Army and Navy as football members, and the conference games scheduled with these two storied programs.
01-31-2025 03:24 PM
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HP-TBDPITL Offline
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Post: #266
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 03:24 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:45 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:34 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:20 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-23-2025 09:06 PM)TxSt1992 Wrote:  I can definitely see Sam Houston joining the SBC in a heartbeat. They would be a better fit for the Sunbelt than TXST.

If Texas State were to leave the SBC I don’t see the SBC replacing them with another Texas school. Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really. We just left a conference with 4 schools in Texas and playing them didn’t do a thing for us except make us spend more on travel.

"Means nothing"? A bold comment. Having a Texas presence may not mean much to the Belt specifically or to a G league in general. But having a member in Texas (and Florida, if possible, for that matter) is never fully meaningless in college football. Let's be reasonable about this.

What does an Eastern school get out of playing Rice, UNT, UTEP and UTSA? Florida is a different story.

Army and Navy football value the opportunity to play in Texas.

All AAC members, including our eastern schools, value having Army and Navy as football members, and the conference games scheduled with these two storied programs.

They value for both the bases and also recruiting. And in todays day and age you never know where a kid may go or come from. Giving a kid a transfer opportunity and saying yeah your parents in Houston can see you play when we play there (or in San Antonio) is a valuable tool.

Its all about getting the best players. The days of grooming your whole team and having super seniors that have been with you for 5 years are over.
01-31-2025 05:37 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #267
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 09:11 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(01-30-2025 09:36 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(01-30-2025 12:02 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(01-29-2025 09:18 PM)Pirate Rep Wrote:  We play BYU, Army, Memphis, Charlotte, Tulsa and Campbell at home.

Thats a nice home schedule. BYU is a national opponent with a national following. Memphis is a quality opponent. Charlotte is a local rival so to speak. Campbell is your FCS warmup. Tulsa is your Meh opponent. And then Army, which will bring out veterans as well as military folks.

I see no reason why ECU would want to a conference slate of SBC games.

ECU's attendance for the most recent home game against each opponent

App State: 46,117
Southern Miss: 45,005
JMU: 40,169

UNC Charlotte: 39,842
BYU: 38,835
Marshall: 38,211
Memphis: 38,059
Army: 29,111 (this one was before the stadium expansion)

Someone mentioned the last ECU home game against Old Dominion having a low attendance (36,853), but that number is higher than the attendance for ECU's most recent home games against Temple, FAU, Navy, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and South Florida.

Source is the wikipedia season pages.

Cherry picking.

Playing Georgia Southern, Coastal, JMU and ODU isnt going to be high attendance. ODU games are fairly low attended when ECU plays them OOC because apparently they dont travel.

You singled out 4 home opponents you thought were great for ECU (BYU, Memphis, UNC-Charlotte, and Army). I took those and compared their most recent games in Greenville to ones against SBC teams on their most recent trip to Greenville. That's not cherry picking.

As I said before, the most recent ODU game in Greenville brought more people into the stadium than what Temple, FAU, Navy, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and South Florida brought.

JMU's most recent game in Greenville brought more people into the stadium than any AAC opponent did in their most recent game in Greenville, with the exception of UTSA. I don't know where you are grabbing your thoughts from.
(This post was last modified: 01-31-2025 11:58 PM by Yosef181.)
01-31-2025 11:50 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #268
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 10:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be curious to know from App fans which group of eight football programs they would prefer to see AppState play each year (hypothetically with any four at home and the other four on the road).

The AAC's Army, Navy, ECU, Charlotte, USF, UAB, Tulane and Memphis

or

pick any eight from the Sun Belt

If I had to choose a "Top 8" from the two conferences, the first 6 would be Georgia Southern, Marshall, James Madison, East Carolina, Coastal Carolina, and Old Dominion.

After that, choose any two out of Georgia State, Memphis, Troy, South Florida, UNC-Charlotte, Alabama-Birmingham, etc. It doesn't make a difference to me after moving below that first group.

Army, Navy, and Tulane are military academies and a private school. They aren't peer institutions to App State.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2025 12:12 AM by Yosef181.)
02-01-2025 12:05 AM
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GreenBison Offline
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Post: #269
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 03:24 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:45 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:34 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:20 PM)GreenBison Wrote:  
(01-23-2025 09:06 PM)TxSt1992 Wrote:  I can definitely see Sam Houston joining the SBC in a heartbeat. They would be a better fit for the Sunbelt than TXST.

If Texas State were to leave the SBC I don’t see the SBC replacing them with another Texas school. Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really. We just left a conference with 4 schools in Texas and playing them didn’t do a thing for us except make us spend more on travel.

"Means nothing"? A bold comment. Having a Texas presence may not mean much to the Belt specifically or to a G league in general. But having a member in Texas (and Florida, if possible, for that matter) is never fully meaningless in college football. Let's be reasonable about this.

What does an Eastern school get out of playing Rice, UNT, UTEP and UTSA? Florida is a different story.

Army and Navy football value the opportunity to play in Texas.

All AAC members, including our eastern schools, value having Army and Navy as football members, and the conference games scheduled with these two storied programs.

No ****... that's because Army and Navy have people in Texas LOL. A school like Marshall maybe got 2 recruits from Texas after playing 4 Texas schools.We played Rice and UTEP for 17 years and UNT and UTSA for 10 years. No one in Texas even watches Rice, UNT, UTEP or UTSA.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2025 12:25 AM by GreenBison.)
02-01-2025 12:15 AM
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Porcine Offline
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Post: #270
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 11:50 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 09:11 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(01-30-2025 09:36 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(01-30-2025 12:02 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  
(01-29-2025 09:18 PM)Pirate Rep Wrote:  We play BYU, Army, Memphis, Charlotte, Tulsa and Campbell at home.

Thats a nice home schedule. BYU is a national opponent with a national following. Memphis is a quality opponent. Charlotte is a local rival so to speak. Campbell is your FCS warmup. Tulsa is your Meh opponent. And then Army, which will bring out veterans as well as military folks.

I see no reason why ECU would want to a conference slate of SBC games.

ECU's attendance for the most recent home game against each opponent

App State: 46,117
Southern Miss: 45,005
JMU: 40,169

UNC Charlotte: 39,842
BYU: 38,835
Marshall: 38,211
Memphis: 38,059
Army: 29,111 (this one was before the stadium expansion)

Someone mentioned the last ECU home game against Old Dominion having a low attendance (36,853), but that number is higher than the attendance for ECU's most recent home games against Temple, FAU, Navy, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and South Florida.

Source is the wikipedia season pages.

Cherry picking.

Playing Georgia Southern, Coastal, JMU and ODU isnt going to be high attendance. ODU games are fairly low attended when ECU plays them OOC because apparently they dont travel.

You singled out 4 home opponents you thought were great for ECU (BYU, Memphis, UNC-Charlotte, and Army). I took those and compared their most recent games in Greenville to ones against SBC teams on their most recent trip to Greenville. That's not cherry picking.

As I said before, the most recent ODU game in Greenville brought more people into the stadium than what Temple, FAU, Navy, SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and South Florida brought.

JMU's most recent game in Greenville brought more people into the stadium than any AAC opponent did in their most recent game in Greenville, with the exception of UTSA. I don't know where you are grabbing your thoughts from.

If playing ECU does a lot more for the SBC and the SBC doesn't travel, who was attending all of those ECU/SBC games?
[Image: the-fresh-prince-of-bel-air-will-smith.gif]
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2025 09:05 PM by Porcine.)
02-01-2025 09:04 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #271
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(01-31-2025 12:56 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  An extreme example: Gonzaga wants to join the Sun Belt. I am 99.99 percent sure the Belt officials would, at the very least, strongly consider the possibility of adding Gonzaga (even though the geography and GU's lack of football would be hugely problematic).

Washington State and Oregon State contacted the Sun Belt asking for a short-term scheduling agreement. We quickly told them No.

"Deliberation didn’t take long. The presidents were not interested. The travel was too far and there were no real financial incentives."

Source is Ross Dellenger, Yahoo Sports: https://sports.yahoo.com/who-will-contro...06253.html
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2025 10:05 PM by Yosef181.)
02-01-2025 09:56 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #272
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(02-01-2025 12:05 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 10:12 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I would be curious to know from App fans which group of eight football programs they would prefer to see AppState play each year (hypothetically with any four at home and the other four on the road).

The AAC's Army, Navy, ECU, Charlotte, USF, UAB, Tulane and Memphis

or

pick any eight from the Sun Belt

If I had to choose a "Top 8" from the two conferences, the first 6 would be Georgia Southern, Marshall, James Madison, East Carolina, Coastal Carolina, and Old Dominion.

After that, choose any two out of Georgia State, Memphis, Troy, South Florida, UNC-Charlotte, Alabama-Birmingham, etc. It doesn't make a difference to me after moving below that first group.

Army, Navy, and Tulane are military academies and a private school. They aren't peer institutions to App State.


I can see the first six you list, particularly given geographic proximity. However — and since I'm not an App fan — I can't fully understand the inclusion of Georgia Southern on your top six list; if I were an App fan, I might rather enjoy seeing the team play Army and/or Navy.

On that theme (and to your "Army, Navy, and Tulane are military academies and a private schools that aren't peer institutions" point) ...

Gonzaga (a private Catholic school located in the Pacific Northwest) is not a peer institution to Memphis, but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Zags home and away every year in hoops. Brigham Young (LDS, private, in Utah, etc.) is not a peer institution of Memphis but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Cougars every year in football. Boise is not a peer institution of Memphis (located in Idaho, small Black student population, etc.) but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Cougars every year in football.

You seem to put (and I respect your right to do so) major emphasis on "shared geography/culture." In contrast, and with Memphis, I put more emphasis on "sexiness/quality of opponent."

Thanks for responding.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2025 11:31 PM by bill dazzle.)
02-01-2025 11:23 PM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #273
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(02-01-2025 09:56 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(01-31-2025 12:56 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  An extreme example: Gonzaga wants to join the Sun Belt. I am 99.99 percent sure the Belt officials would, at the very least, strongly consider the possibility of adding Gonzaga (even though the geography and GU's lack of football would be hugely problematic).

Washington State and Oregon State contacted the Sun Belt asking for a short-term scheduling agreement. We quickly told them No.

"Deliberation didn’t take long. The presidents were not interested. The travel was too far and there were no real financial incentives."

Source is Ross Dellenger, Yahoo Sports: https://sports.yahoo.com/who-will-contro...06253.html


Fair points and I understand. But that was for a temporary scheduling arrangement. What if Boise, San Diego State, Oregon State and Washinton State, hypothetically, wanted to represent a Western wing with full and permanent Sun Belt membership? I truly think Belt officials would at least consider.

Regardless, my point remains. The Marshall fan posted: Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really.

I simply feel the poster's use of "means nothing" is an exaggeration (perhaps used subconsciously/unwittingly). With this "preliminary strike approach," if Texas State leaves the Belt, the poster has already convinced himself "Eh, no big deal. We don't need that school anyway. We don't need a Texas presence."

I don't relate to that approach.
(This post was last modified: 02-01-2025 11:37 PM by bill dazzle.)
02-01-2025 11:30 PM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #274
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(02-01-2025 11:23 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I can see the first six you list, particularly given geographic proximity. However — and since I'm not an App fan — I can't fully understand the inclusion of Georgia Southern on your top six list; if I were an App fan, I might rather enjoy seeing the team play Army and/or Navy.

On that theme (and to your "Army, Navy, and Tulane are military academies and a private schools that aren't peer institutions" point) ...

Gonzaga (a private Catholic school located in the Pacific Northwest) is not a peer institution to Memphis, but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Zags home and away every year in hoops. Brigham Young (LDS, private, in Utah, etc.) is not a peer institution of Memphis but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Cougars every year in football. Boise is not a peer institution of Memphis (located in Idaho, small Black student population, etc.) but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Cougars every year in football.

You seem to put (and I respect your right to do so) major emphasis on "shared geography/culture." In contrast, and with Memphis, I put more emphasis on "sexiness/quality of opponent."

Thanks for responding.

Georgia Southern is our biggest rival. "Deeper Than Hate." We've played each other for the last 31 seasons. We moved up from the SoCon to the Sun Belt with them, which was a big FBS selling point for fans of both schools. These are still two of the most successful programs in FCS history, with Georgia Southern ranked 2nd in most FCS National Championships (only behind North Dakota State), and App State ranked 4th on the same list.

The stakes of this game were often massive. For example, the visiting team came into the 2010 and 2011 games ranked #1 in FCS, only to lose to the home team. Pile games like that up over decades, and you have a rivalry. Imagine if the Clemson-Alabama games from 2016-2019 were played 30 years in a row with conference championships on the line.

As for Army, Navy, and Tulane (and Gonzaga, BYU, Liberty) not being peer institutions, I'm talking about how the finances flow at those institutions. They have different processes to obtain money for their programs than public state universities do, and there are certain advantages that come with that. I want to be on a more even playing field with other conference members when it comes to financing, and that includes having NIL, something Army and Navy don't have.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2025 08:46 AM by Yosef181.)
02-02-2025 08:24 AM
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Yosef181 Offline
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Post: #275
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(02-01-2025 11:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(02-01-2025 09:56 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  Washington State and Oregon State contacted the Sun Belt asking for a short-term scheduling agreement. We quickly told them No.

"Deliberation didn’t take long. The presidents were not interested. The travel was too far and there were no real financial incentives."

Source is Ross Dellenger, Yahoo Sports: https://sports.yahoo.com/who-will-contro...06253.html


Fair points and I understand. But that was for a temporary scheduling arrangement. What if Boise, San Diego State, Oregon State and Washinton State, hypothetically, wanted to represent a Western wing with full and permanent Sun Belt membership? I truly think Belt officials would at least consider.

Regardless, my point remains. The Marshall fan posted: Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really.

I simply feel the poster's use of "means nothing" is an exaggeration (perhaps used subconsciously/unwittingly). With this "preliminary strike approach," if Texas State leaves the Belt, the poster has already convinced himself "Eh, no big deal. We don't need that school anyway. We don't need a Texas presence."

I don't relate to that approach.

We don't need a presence in Texas. It's nice to have, but Texas State is a pain to get to for a lot of schools in a league that prides itself in being regional. That's the reason Dellenger included "the travel was too far" in his article, and why Louisiana Tech would likely be one of the top candidates to replace Texas State if needed.
(This post was last modified: 02-02-2025 08:43 AM by Yosef181.)
02-02-2025 08:40 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Post: #276
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(02-02-2025 08:24 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(02-01-2025 11:23 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  I can see the first six you list, particularly given geographic proximity. However — and since I'm not an App fan — I can't fully understand the inclusion of Georgia Southern on your top six list; if I were an App fan, I might rather enjoy seeing the team play Army and/or Navy.

On that theme (and to your "Army, Navy, and Tulane are military academies and a private schools that aren't peer institutions" point) ...

Gonzaga (a private Catholic school located in the Pacific Northwest) is not a peer institution to Memphis, but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Zags home and away every year in hoops. Brigham Young (LDS, private, in Utah, etc.) is not a peer institution of Memphis but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Cougars every year in football. Boise is not a peer institution of Memphis (located in Idaho, small Black student population, etc.) but I would strongly like the Tigers to play the Cougars every year in football.

You seem to put (and I respect your right to do so) major emphasis on "shared geography/culture." In contrast, and with Memphis, I put more emphasis on "sexiness/quality of opponent."

Thanks for responding.

Georgia Southern is our biggest rival. "Deeper Than Hate." We've played each other for the last 31 seasons. We moved up from the SoCon to the Sun Belt with them, which was a big FBS selling point for fans of both schools. These are still two of the most successful programs in FCS history, with Georgia Southern ranked 2nd in most FCS National Championships (only behind North Dakota State), and App State ranked 4th on the same list.

The stakes of this game were often massive. For example, the visiting team came into the 2010 and 2011 games ranked #1 in FCS, only to lose to the home team. Pile games like that up over decades, and you have a rivalry. Imagine if the Clemson-Alabama games from 2016-2019 were played 30 years in a row with conference championships on the line.

As for Army, Navy, and Tulane (and Gonzaga, BYU, Liberty) not being peer institutions, I'm talking about how the finances flow at those institutions. They have different processes to obtain money for their programs than public state universities do, and there are certain advantages that come with that. I want to be on a more even playing field with other conference members when it comes to financing, and that includes having NIL, something Army and Navy don't have.


Very interesting about Georgia Southern. I recall the GSU football program being a power on the FCS level but did not realize the depth of the rivalry with App. Now your listing makes full sense.

As to the "even playing field" and financial structure component you note, I can kind of see that, too, as it relates to App.

To be fair to you, it's hard for this Vanderbilt and Memphis fan to fully understand your mindset (and that is on me and not a criticism of you). You (and many other pro-Sun Belt posters) place significant emphasis (and understandably so given the circumstances/histories of the schools you support) on rivalries, geography and shared institutional/athletics approaches/funding/culture.

In contrast, Vanderbilt has very little of that with its SEC brethren. We have no true rival. Our fans get excited to see the Commodores beat the SEC's big boys (which is not as frequent as we would like). But, for example, most Tennessee and Kentucky fans don't consider Vanderbilt a true rival.

Similarly, Memphis no longer shares a conference with its two main "rivals" (Louisville and Cincinnati) and a key peer (Houston). So, if Memphis is not going to have an AAC rival (other than, to a modest extent, Tulane and UAB), this Memphis fan places strong importance on programs that offer "cache," "national notoriety," and, to an extent, "sexiness" — even if those programs are with schools that are highly different than Memphis. In football, the two key AAC examples are Army and Navy. Located far from Memphis. No NIL. Military academies. Basically nothing in common with Memphis. But I'd rather the Tigers play those two than most of the AAC members. Army and Navy have names, reputations and histories.

Same thing with Temple in hoops. Temple is located in the Northeast (UM in the mid-South). TU and UM never played in basketball on an annual basis until 2013. So there is not that shared history/culture/geography/rivalry. However, Temple is No. 7 in all-time wins in college hoops (almost 2,000 wins) and is a "known quantity" that college hoops fans respect. So I'm thankful Memphis shares a league with Temple.

On this theme, one reason I'm open to Memphis moving to the PAC is that each of the eight future PAC members brings an element of "cache" in football, basketball and/or name recognition due to location and/or long-standing sports history. That is not fully evident in the AAC, Sun Belt, C-USA or future MWC.

In short, and compared to the PAC, Memphis "makes more sense" overall in the AAC (or even, hypothetically, in your Sun Belt). But in some ways, I'd rather have Memphis a member of the future PAC.
02-02-2025 09:17 AM
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bill dazzle Offline
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Posts: 12,449
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I Root For: Vandy/Memphis/DePaul/UNC
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Post: #277
RE: If you are UAB and ECU, and the PAC takes Memphis and Tulane,
(02-02-2025 08:40 AM)Yosef181 Wrote:  
(02-01-2025 11:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  
(02-01-2025 09:56 PM)Yosef181 Wrote:  Washington State and Oregon State contacted the Sun Belt asking for a short-term scheduling agreement. We quickly told them No.

"Deliberation didn’t take long. The presidents were not interested. The travel was too far and there were no real financial incentives."

Source is Ross Dellenger, Yahoo Sports: https://sports.yahoo.com/who-will-contro...06253.html


Fair points and I understand. But that was for a temporary scheduling arrangement. What if Boise, San Diego State, Oregon State and Washinton State, hypothetically, wanted to represent a Western wing with full and permanent Sun Belt membership? I truly think Belt officials would at least consider.

Regardless, my point remains. The Marshall fan posted: Playing schools in Texas is great if you’re P4, but as a G5 it means nothing really.

I simply feel the poster's use of "means nothing" is an exaggeration (perhaps used subconsciously/unwittingly). With this "preliminary strike approach," if Texas State leaves the Belt, the poster has already convinced himself "Eh, no big deal. We don't need that school anyway. We don't need a Texas presence."

I don't relate to that approach.

We don't need a presence in Texas. It's nice to have, but Texas State is a pain to get to for a lot of schools in a league that prides itself in being regional. That's the reason Dellenger included "the travel was too far" in his article, and why Louisiana Tech would likely be one of the top candidates to replace Texas State if needed.

In general, I see your point.

However, I feel there is a difference between "needing" a presence in Texas and "potentially benefiting" from a Texas presence." Any league, P or G, could potentially benefit from a Texas presence for recruiting athletes and students in general given that state's sheer population size. Having a presence in Texas and, for that matter, in Florida (for obvious reasons) is a nice thing for any league, particularly for football. Is it "necessary"? Perhaps not. But to say it "means nothing" (GreenBison's words) seems extreme.
02-02-2025 09:25 AM
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