I dont see France and the UK sending troops. Just consider for a moment how incredibly involved that would end up being if you game plan that out. This isnt some war against an African nation where your fighting ISIS forces with no air defense or heavy artillery. If the French and Brits send troops, they arent going to allow them to be easily hit with Russian missiles, drones, and FAB-500 bombs. That means these two would have to send in additional air defense (which is in short supply)---and since these guys are used to calling in air strikes, they will almost certainly need to bring in enough air cover to give them the ability to establish at least limited control of the skies in their sectors (thats just how NATO forces are designed to fight). They arent going to want to stage long range air cover and air strikes out of France and the UK (too much need for mid-air refueling and it would limit the patrol time in the protection area--not to mention they would need air clearance for air corridors through nations not directly involved in fighting)---so that means stationing aircraft in Ukraine---which means those expensive assets are going to be at risk of missile and drone strikes. They will also need to move support people into Ukraine for the aircraft. Putting front line combat troops into the front sounds like a really big commitment that I don't see these two countries making---and thats before you even consider the chance such moves might open these nations up to strikes on their home territory.

The only thing I could maybe see them doing in terms of large numbers of combat troops is if they sent say enough troops to man the northern defenses of Ukraine along the Belarus border---freeing up the Ukrainian units there to be used elsewhere. Thats a peaceful quiet border where they might could get away with just bringing in some extra SAM batteries to beef up the air defenses over their troops. I still think UK/FRench troops stationed in large numbers inside Ukraine wold just provide Putin with a juicy target, especially if Storm Shadows from the UK and France are still slamming into Russian troops and infrastructure on Russian territory---which is why I dont think UK and France will ultimately send any large combat units to Ukraine.

Honestly----if they insist on direct involvement (which I think is a bad idea)----rather than doing something much more escalatory like inserting large numbers of combat troops (which would also involve moving lots of air assets into the area)-----these two would be better off just doing the air power part of the mission alone. Establish a defensive air zone over western Ukraine. Thats entirely defensive and is at least unlikely to result in much chance of UK/French forces actually killing any Russians or vice versa. It would protect the Ukrainian civilians in the western portion of Ukraine and perhaps help Trump to get Putin to the peace table since the ability to hammer much of Ukraine with long range missiles would be greatly limited by the air cover.

(11-26-2024 09:56 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2...er-macron/

“We are not sending the Americans to keep the peace in Ukraine. And we will not pay for it. Let the Polish people, Germans, British and French do it.”

This is all to simplistic for me to accept. There are a lot of moving pieces and if too many get set in motion before Trump can assume office I'm not sure he will be able to stop it unless he uses force. Something he doesn't want to do.

Reminds me as a kid stacking green hay in barn. Its already hot and just needs a little something to burn the whole barn down.

Taiwan may just be that something.

If the dummies in Washington get involved, you announce on Truth Social every plug gets pulled on Inauguration Day. Everything and everyone comes home and no more funding for anything over there.

They won't do anything without running past the MOB. If guys in Pentagon want even a chance of not being fired in less than 60 days they are going to stay on the sidelines in this lame duck period.

(11-26-2024 12:20 AM)banker Wrote:  The answer is simple, stay on the sidelines and tell them to have fun. I’m tired of saving Europe just to have them treat us like we’re their unemployed, lazy second cousin at the family reunion.

100%

Go get killed you dumb ass morons.

Our boys stay out of it.... period. Eff Europe, you're on your own.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

A few years ago I was at resort in Jamaica in August. August is vacation month in Europe and European men apparently like to vacation together. It was awkward to say the least to see 4 Italian guys sitting in a hot tub together while everyone else had wives or girlfriends with them.

To make a long story short, a friend and I are standing in line with our wives to eat lunch. Directly in front of us are these 4 guys. They are all wearing sarongs. (If you don’t know what they are ask, your wife, daughter or girlfriend what they are like my buddy and I had to).

These guys were wearing wraps that American women wear around their bikini bottoms. My buddy looks back at me and shakes his head. I reminded him, “That’s why Americans have had to go to Europe… twice to save them from the Germans.”

That was over 20 years ago and that’s what I think about every time I hear any European talk about going to war.

For all of you “going to war over Ukraine” Chamberlains, I will simply say this, take the war monger at his word. If you will just do that you will understand this is not just about Ukraine. Yes Ukraine is corrupt. Maybe almost as much as DC but they do not have ambition to start wars. They are the victims here, corrupt or not. And they will not be the last if this goes on unchecked. The only way Americans die in this conflict is if we let the perpetrators go on and commit more needless land grabs.

(11-26-2024 08:02 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 04:47 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Trump needs to make it clear to the UK, France, Germany, and any other country who thinks going to war over Ukraine is a good idea, the United States isn’t coming to save you this time.

The British think they’re still Colonial power. France is just inviting another country to takeover Paris while Germany is always ready for another war.

Let’s see how many of these soy boys with the Ukrainian flag on their social media profiles are ready to go fight. If they’re 18-45 get ready to kill a commie for your mommy, so the old white men can get richer.

I’m just going to go ahead and wish all the Ukrainian fanboys here luck if Mr. Potato head manages to get us into another war. In case they’re all gone to get all the free stuff they were promised.

I don’t believe Russia could withstand France, UK & Germany getting directly involved. Smaller countries like Poland would also join. It would be a shellacking because these countries are far more advanced militarily.

That begs the question What will Putin do to save face so to speak?

Would China join the fray? There are too many things happening at the present that is causing this to spiral out of control.

This is what the average American doesn’t get when it comes to voting. Weak leadership can and will have dire consequences.

China is NOT Russia's ally. They're just out to make a buck.

I don't see France or the UK getting involved to that extent.

And it still wouldn't be WWIII. It would be another Korean War or Spanish Civil War. Battle by proxies.

I think escalating might make sense---but it needs to be done in the right way. I would avoid escalating with even longer range western weapons that would strike farther into Russia. Inserting troops seems like an equally bad idea.

I would prefer to see any "escalation" favor defensive measures or weapons that would help off-set Ukraine's man power deficit at the front line. For instance, I would favor a more robust air defense with a larger supply of modern western air craft---if France and UK want to get directly involved in that kind of effort----let em knock themselves out as long as they stay in the western part of Ukraine and their role is entirely defensive (in other words they do NOT participate in air strikes at the front). Leave any air strikes on the front lines to the Ukrainian piloted aircraft if they want. A more robust air defense in the western half of the country means current Ukrainian units can move eastward and provide more front line cover for their troops.

Utilizing emergency powers to produce more artillery shells would also help so the Ukrainians could fire artillery as much as needed to offset manpower disadvantages. If NATO wants to escalate---I think thats the kind of direction to go---and that kind of direction might actually be helpful for Trump's peace initiative while being far less likely poison the environment for talks.

Frankly---I would prefer western nations do no further escalation (other than maybe increasing the supply of regular artillery shells and ground based air defense---which are not really escalations as these weapon systems have been provided for years) until Trump has a chance to try to hammer out a peace settlement.

(11-26-2024 09:56 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2...er-macron/

“We are not sending the Americans to keep the peace in Ukraine. And we will not pay for it. Let the Polish people, Germans, British and French do it.”

This is all to simplistic for me to accept. There are a lot of moving pieces and if too many get set in motion before Trump can assume office I'm not sure he will be able to stop it unless he uses force. Something he doesn't want to do.

Reminds me as a kid stacking green hay in barn. Its already hot and just needs a little something to burn the whole barn down.

Taiwan may just be that something.

Send Poland into Ukraine to keep the peace and they will be in Moscow in three months.

Their continent, their war. F NATO and F the UN.

(11-27-2024 06:48 PM)U_of_Elvis Wrote:  

(11-26-2024 09:56 AM)BlueDragon Wrote:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2...er-macron/

“We are not sending the Americans to keep the peace in Ukraine. And we will not pay for it. Let the Polish people, Germans, British and French do it.”

This is all to simplistic for me to accept. There are a lot of moving pieces and if too many get set in motion before Trump can assume office I'm not sure he will be able to stop it unless he uses force. Something he doesn't want to do.

Reminds me as a kid stacking green hay in barn. Its already hot and just needs a little something to burn the whole barn down.

Taiwan may just be that something.

Send Poland into Ukraine to keep the peace and they will be in Moscow in three months.

Forget Poland, Germany is foaming at the mouth to get at Russia.

They see all of the Ukrainian Refugees coming to Germany if the Kiev collapses. They want no part of that.

If Trump backs away and can’t settle this I see Germany Britain and France getting into the fray.

Russia cannot withstand them unless China comes their defense.

I said earlier my gut feeling is this going to get whole lot uglier before it gets better. I hope I’m wrong. Our exposure there leaves us very vulnerable.

This was all brought on by weak Democratic Leadership. There is no other way around it. Asleep at the wheel has consequences.

Probably bluffs to get Putin to be reasonable

Ukraine sucks, Russia sucks, Europe sucks, China sucks, Mexico sucks, Canada sucks, everybody sucks! Except for us. We don't suck. Some of our leaders suck. (Some quite literally.) But we're awesome.

Remember that.