(09-11-2022 11:48 AM)franklyconfused Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 11:33 AM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-11-2022 10:43 AM)bigowlsfan Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:48 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(09-10-2022 08:41 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  This offense looks familiar…circa 2008.

And the Bloom offense rears its ugly head. 3rd and 2 and he goes back to the toss back play which loses 3. Why???

Because we averaged 5 yards a run, and running keeps the clock going, even if the play is not successful?

A team, this team, can run successfully without tossing the ball backwards several yards. More negative to neutral results than positive results from the toss back play.

The toss dive doesn't fail because the ball goes backwards. A traditional handoff takes it back, too, and so did the snaps to all our McHargue-Ross option plays in 2012-13. The theory of the toss dive is supposed to be that the ball gets to the halfback's hands more quickly, giving him more time to react to the how the blocking develops. The deficiency in the design is that it gives away the inside run call that much more quickly, letting the linebackers and secondary key in on their run fits a few steps earlier. Even if the HB has more time to read the blocking, there's likely fewer gaps to find than if the defense was concerned about whether the QB kept the ball on a bootleg coming out of the handoff. We could maybe relieve some of this pressure by having the HB try a pop pass to a tight end from time to time, but Bloomgren's (and David Shaw's) entire thesis for running this instead of a traditional handoff is the belief that the o-line is or should be so dominant anyway that the run should succeed regardless of how the HB gets the ball.

You’re response highlights all that is wrong with the toss back. Ball goes backwards 3-5 yards vs 2-3 on a handoff, shows inside run early, and eliminates QB play fake, bootleg, etc.

So what’s good about the toss back? Gets the ball into the RBs hands early? If the OL isn’t opening holes, it just means there is the the potential for a greater loss.

Color me not a fan of that play. Ever.